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In the USA the three main banks are Chase, Wells, and Bank of America. Wells is notoriously crooked. Bank of America was a primary player in structuring withdr

In the USA the three main banks are Chase, Wells, and Bank of America. Wells is notoriously crooked. Bank of America was a primary player in structuring withdrawls to maximize overdraft fines on their customers. Chase has its own problems, but it would add a lot of inconvenience to your life to eliminate it. Those three big players have purchased the majority of other banks in the country, leaving a scattered few credit unions and smaller banks around, which will be extra inconvenient when you travel and they absolutely will not offer the same range of credit cards with good rewards programs.

seretogis 6y ago
We don't need to rely on profit-driven banks while credit unions exist. I'd really recommend that anyone and everyone switch to their local credit union to deprive these awful banks of their money. It is slightly less convenient, but much better for the country.
- x0x0 6y ago
  I did this during the banking crisis, but I can't recommend it. The problem is most credit unions suck. Examples: * it's 2020 and my credit union doesn't have autopay for my credit card. * someone stole my cards and made some unauthorized charges at an unattended parking lot -- they did it almost 40 times in a single day across 3 cards that I rotated between. Chase and Amex took a 5 minute phone call each. My credit union took more than ten hours of work to get my money back, including demanding that I go to a -- remember, unattended -- parking lot that was near a job I hadn't worked at in 6 months to try to get a refund. The real answer is if you qualify for eg a chase sapphire reserve, you get excellent service and an excellent product.
  - pjlegato 6y ago
    This. I've tried credit unions and big banks. I really wanted to like the credit unions, but their general level of operational competence is a small fraction of the big banks. Everything takes much longer and major hassles are far more frequent. They have automated little to none of their operations. They are so small that their tiny staff has never had to deal with your particular issue before, and doesn't know what to do about it. The big banks, on the other hand, deal with other versions of your problem dozens to hundreds of times a day, and have evolved a very high degree of efficiency in handling your case.
  - jacurtis 6y ago
    You are 100% correct that most credit unions have terrible credit cards. Unfortunately most of them also have terrible online banking. They also have terrible fraud detection. The balance that I have found works good for me is that I keep liquid assets at credit unions and I will get a debit card from them, but try to avoid using it if at all possible. I also hold credit cards with the major banks (except Wells Fargo, which I refuse to bank with in any capacity). I make all purchases throughout the month on credit cards with the exception of things like mortgage, car payment, etc.. Obviously also paying those cards off each month. There are numerous advantages to using credit cards over debit cards that I won't get into here. I have a variety of credit cards that use Chase, BofA, AMEX, and Capital One. I also have at least one of each of the three major card brands (Visa, Mastercard, Amex). Then of course I have a couple investment accounts I use for holding long term assets. I find that this balance is the best that you can come up with. My liquid assets (money I make from work for example) goes into my primary credit union account. I try to hold mortgage and car loans through the same credit union and those get paid directly from the checking account. I try to avoid any other line items on that account other than payments to pay off credit cards. Then day-to-day expenses (food, amazon, stuff from Target, etc) get paid with credit cards. This way no one has direct access to my liquid assets if a card number gets compromised. I also don't have to deal with the bad online banking experience of the credit unions because I don't really use them for much other than a selected number of major payments each month. Instead my general purchases are on well known credit cards that have really good apps (Like Chase for example) and online experiences and reward programs. This balance is great. You build a good relationship with a credit union and you keep your primary liquid assets with them instead of the major banks. Credit Unions are particularly good when you want things like Mortgages, construction loans, lines of credit, or car loans. So you can use credit unions for these things and maintain a good relationship with them. But where the credit union is weak, you leverage the strength of the major banks for good credit cards, good rewards programs, good fraud detection, good apps, and so forth. But at the end of the day they don't actually hold any of your money.
  - quintushoratius 6y ago
    Not OP, but - It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. * I keep my savings, checking, and loan accounts at a local bank, which also issues a debit card. * I have credit cards from Discover and BoA, so that I get big-bank services for them. The bulk of my value as a customer is tied to my mortgage, so my local bank, and possibly Fannie Mae, holds onto those profits.
  - Supermancho 6y ago
    I've used credit unions since my first "BofA experience" in my 20s. School's First FCU, BECU, etc. They have all been great and I highly recommend them. I charge something to a card outside of the state but have recently bought a plane ticket to that area, it's fine. If I don't buy a ticket and my card is charged in some out of state area or 2 charges are made within a few hours across 100 miles in distance, instant lock on my card and a phone call. This stuff is just wonderful. No monthly fees. Can use a debit anywhere Mastercard is valid, even overseas. > The problem is most credit unions suck. This has not been my experience. Chase is miserable, but if you need a business account, credit unions can't help you there.
  - ptero 6y ago
    I second this. In my limited experience (2 at universities) they are frequently run by very well meaning and very incompetent folks. Like really incompetent, from storing cleartext passwords to messing up simple payments. My 2c.
toomuchtodo 6y ago
Fidelity [1] and Schwab [2] are both options for checking (deposit accounts), reimbursing all ATM fees domestically (Fidelity) and even internationally (Schwab), with no fees or minimum balances. Amex has rewards on par with Chase [3]. Credit unions [4] are always preferable, of course, if you don't need ATMs frequently or branch services. Ally Bank or Discover Bank are also no fee options for checking and savings accounts if you need Zelle support (which should only be a thing for another 2-3 years as the Fed rolls out instant payment infrastructure). TransferWise is a low cost option if you need international funds transfer services (it plugs into Fidelity and Schwab accounts without issue). You don't need to touch Wells, Chase, or BoA to have financial infra in the US, although you might be stuck with them if you have a mortgage, auto loan, or other lending they originated or service. My condolences in that case. [1] https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/fidelity-cash-management-account/overview https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/fidelity-cash-manag... [2] https://www.schwab.com/checking https://www.schwab.com/checking [3] https://thepointsguy.com/guide/amex-membership-rewards-vs-chase-ultimate-rewards/ https://thepointsguy.com/guide/amex-membership-rewards-vs-ch... [4] https://www.mycreditunion.gov/about-credit-unions/credit-union-locator https://www.mycreditunion.gov/about-credit-unions/credit-uni...
- briankelly 6y ago
  Schwab personal checking is Chase on the backend, this is clear from the routing info.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    Routing # 121202211 (Schwab checking) resolves to Charles Schwab Bank in Henderson, NV. I was unable to find a connection to Chase plumbing. Have more context to provide? I could be wrong, just looking for an independent citation. If true, you still get Schwab customer service (luckily) instead of Chase.
    - briankelly 6y ago
      Ah my mistake the brokerage account is to Chase, not the checking.
graton 6y ago
I have zero accounts at any of the big three. I use a credit union and have never had any issues with travel overseas. The reward program through the credit union is not that great, but I'm okay with that.
colejohnson66 6y ago
A bank I’ve never had a problem with is USAA (yes, they do banking as well). So if you qualify to have insurance with them, check out their banking. Never had an issue with them in half a decade. They also reimburse ATM fees up to a certain amount per month ($20?)
gravitas 6y ago
> leaving a scattered few credit unions and smaller banks around Your comment would imply a huge gap between this top tier of 3 banks and the rest of FDIC banking; there are quite a large number of large banking institutions available which are not as small as you've positioned them. https://www.mx.com/moneysummit/biggest-banks-by-asset-size-united-states https://www.mx.com/moneysummit/biggest-banks-by-asset-size-u... (there are similarly very large Credit Unions such as NavyFederal with lots of asset: https://www.mx.com/moneysummit/biggest-us-credit-unions-by-asset-size https://www.mx.com/moneysummit/biggest-us-credit-unions-by-a... )
olyjohn 6y ago
I use a local credit union, and have for 20+ years. What problems do people run into while traveling? I've been to a few other countries and never had problems.
SeanLuke 6y ago
> In the USA the three main banks are Chase, Wells, and Bank of America. FWIW, Citigroup is almost as big as Wells Fargo.
BeetleB 6y ago
> leaving a scattered few credit unions and smaller banks around, which will be extra inconvenient when you travel and they absolutely will not offer the same range of credit cards with good rewards programs. A lot of credit unions are members of the CO-OP program, which gives you access to more ATMs than any of the big banks (possibly more than all of the combined). At least for travel within the US, being part of that CO-OP credit union is much more convenient than BoA and their ilk. I just checked: 50 BoA ATMs within 20 miles of me. Over 100 within the CO-OP network. This is in a decent sized metro area. I just checked my small undergrad town: 3 in the city, and 2 in the adjacent city. BoA has only 1 - and only in the adjacent city. In my experience, it's always been able to find a Co-Op ATM than a BoA one. Others complained about poor services, web sites, etc. I suppose that can be true, but it isn't for mine. In fact, I had to ditch one of the national banks because it couldn't provide simple features that my local credit union does - stuff like limiting which of my checking accounts is tied to my ATM card - without limiting it in their online site. So if I tied my ATM card to only one account, then when I logged in to the account's site, it would not let me transfer money between the accounts that are not on the ATM (although it would let me view transactions, etc). I've also used my debit card in other countries. It worked just like any other card would (I did have to inform them in advance so it wouldn't trip up fraud detection). > and they absolutely will not offer the same range of credit cards with good rewards programs. You do not need to have a bank account with Chase and other companies to get good credit cards with rewards programs.

seretogis 6y ago

We don't need to rely on profit-driven banks while credit unions exist. I'd really recommend that anyone and everyone switch to their local credit union to deprive these awful banks of their money. It is slightly less convenient, but much better for the country.

x0x0 6y ago
I did this during the banking crisis, but I can't recommend it. The problem is most credit unions suck. Examples: * it's 2020 and my credit union doesn't have autopay for my credit card. * someone stole my cards and made some unauthorized charges at an unattended parking lot -- they did it almost 40 times in a single day across 3 cards that I rotated between. Chase and Amex took a 5 minute phone call each. My credit union took more than ten hours of work to get my money back, including demanding that I go to a -- remember, unattended -- parking lot that was near a job I hadn't worked at in 6 months to try to get a refund. The real answer is if you qualify for eg a chase sapphire reserve, you get excellent service and an excellent product.
- pjlegato 6y ago
  This. I've tried credit unions and big banks. I really wanted to like the credit unions, but their general level of operational competence is a small fraction of the big banks. Everything takes much longer and major hassles are far more frequent. They have automated little to none of their operations. They are so small that their tiny staff has never had to deal with your particular issue before, and doesn't know what to do about it. The big banks, on the other hand, deal with other versions of your problem dozens to hundreds of times a day, and have evolved a very high degree of efficiency in handling your case.
- jacurtis 6y ago
  You are 100% correct that most credit unions have terrible credit cards. Unfortunately most of them also have terrible online banking. They also have terrible fraud detection. The balance that I have found works good for me is that I keep liquid assets at credit unions and I will get a debit card from them, but try to avoid using it if at all possible. I also hold credit cards with the major banks (except Wells Fargo, which I refuse to bank with in any capacity). I make all purchases throughout the month on credit cards with the exception of things like mortgage, car payment, etc.. Obviously also paying those cards off each month. There are numerous advantages to using credit cards over debit cards that I won't get into here. I have a variety of credit cards that use Chase, BofA, AMEX, and Capital One. I also have at least one of each of the three major card brands (Visa, Mastercard, Amex). Then of course I have a couple investment accounts I use for holding long term assets. I find that this balance is the best that you can come up with. My liquid assets (money I make from work for example) goes into my primary credit union account. I try to hold mortgage and car loans through the same credit union and those get paid directly from the checking account. I try to avoid any other line items on that account other than payments to pay off credit cards. Then day-to-day expenses (food, amazon, stuff from Target, etc) get paid with credit cards. This way no one has direct access to my liquid assets if a card number gets compromised. I also don't have to deal with the bad online banking experience of the credit unions because I don't really use them for much other than a selected number of major payments each month. Instead my general purchases are on well known credit cards that have really good apps (Like Chase for example) and online experiences and reward programs. This balance is great. You build a good relationship with a credit union and you keep your primary liquid assets with them instead of the major banks. Credit Unions are particularly good when you want things like Mortgages, construction loans, lines of credit, or car loans. So you can use credit unions for these things and maintain a good relationship with them. But where the credit union is weak, you leverage the strength of the major banks for good credit cards, good rewards programs, good fraud detection, good apps, and so forth. But at the end of the day they don't actually hold any of your money.
- quintushoratius 6y ago
  Not OP, but - It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. * I keep my savings, checking, and loan accounts at a local bank, which also issues a debit card. * I have credit cards from Discover and BoA, so that I get big-bank services for them. The bulk of my value as a customer is tied to my mortgage, so my local bank, and possibly Fannie Mae, holds onto those profits.
- Supermancho 6y ago
  I've used credit unions since my first "BofA experience" in my 20s. School's First FCU, BECU, etc. They have all been great and I highly recommend them. I charge something to a card outside of the state but have recently bought a plane ticket to that area, it's fine. If I don't buy a ticket and my card is charged in some out of state area or 2 charges are made within a few hours across 100 miles in distance, instant lock on my card and a phone call. This stuff is just wonderful. No monthly fees. Can use a debit anywhere Mastercard is valid, even overseas. > The problem is most credit unions suck. This has not been my experience. Chase is miserable, but if you need a business account, credit unions can't help you there.
- ptero 6y ago
  I second this. In my limited experience (2 at universities) they are frequently run by very well meaning and very incompetent folks. Like really incompetent, from storing cleartext passwords to messing up simple payments. My 2c.

toomuchtodo 6y ago

Fidelity [1] and Schwab [2] are both options for checking (deposit accounts), reimbursing all ATM fees domestically (Fidelity) and even internationally (Schwab), with no fees or minimum balances. Amex has rewards on par with Chase [3]. Credit unions [4] are always preferable, of course, if you don't need ATMs frequently or branch services. Ally Bank or Discover Bank are also no fee options for checking and savings accounts if you need Zelle support (which should only be a thing for another 2-3 years as the Fed rolls out instant payment infrastructure). TransferWise is a low cost option if you need international funds transfer services (it plugs into Fidelity and Schwab accounts without issue). You don't need to touch Wells, Chase, or BoA to have financial infra in the US, although you might be stuck with them if you have a mortgage, auto loan, or other lending they originated or service. My condolences in that case. [1] https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/fidelity-cash-management-account/overview https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/fidelity-cash-manag... [2] https://www.schwab.com/checking https://www.schwab.com/checking [3] https://thepointsguy.com/guide/amex-membership-rewards-vs-chase-ultimate-rewards/ https://thepointsguy.com/guide/amex-membership-rewards-vs-ch... [4] https://www.mycreditunion.gov/about-credit-unions/credit-union-locator https://www.mycreditunion.gov/about-credit-unions/credit-uni...

briankelly 6y ago
Schwab personal checking is Chase on the backend, this is clear from the routing info.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  Routing # 121202211 (Schwab checking) resolves to Charles Schwab Bank in Henderson, NV. I was unable to find a connection to Chase plumbing. Have more context to provide? I could be wrong, just looking for an independent citation. If true, you still get Schwab customer service (luckily) instead of Chase.
  - briankelly 6y ago
    Ah my mistake the brokerage account is to Chase, not the checking.

graton 6y ago

I have zero accounts at any of the big three. I use a credit union and have never had any issues with travel overseas. The reward program through the credit union is not that great, but I'm okay with that.

colejohnson66 6y ago

A bank I’ve never had a problem with is USAA (yes, they do banking as well). So if you qualify to have insurance with them, check out their banking. Never had an issue with them in half a decade. They also reimburse ATM fees up to a certain amount per month ($20?)

gravitas 6y ago

> leaving a scattered few credit unions and smaller banks around Your comment would imply a huge gap between this top tier of 3 banks and the rest of FDIC banking; there are quite a large number of large banking institutions available which are not as small as you've positioned them. https://www.mx.com/moneysummit/biggest-banks-by-asset-size-united-states https://www.mx.com/moneysummit/biggest-banks-by-asset-size-u... (there are similarly very large Credit Unions such as NavyFederal with lots of asset: https://www.mx.com/moneysummit/biggest-us-credit-unions-by-asset-size https://www.mx.com/moneysummit/biggest-us-credit-unions-by-a... )

olyjohn 6y ago

I use a local credit union, and have for 20+ years. What problems do people run into while traveling? I've been to a few other countries and never had problems.

SeanLuke 6y ago

> In the USA the three main banks are Chase, Wells, and Bank of America. FWIW, Citigroup is almost as big as Wells Fargo.

BeetleB 6y ago

> leaving a scattered few credit unions and smaller banks around, which will be extra inconvenient when you travel and they absolutely will not offer the same range of credit cards with good rewards programs. A lot of credit unions are members of the CO-OP program, which gives you access to more ATMs than any of the big banks (possibly more than all of the combined). At least for travel within the US, being part of that CO-OP credit union is much more convenient than BoA and their ilk. I just checked: 50 BoA ATMs within 20 miles of me. Over 100 within the CO-OP network. This is in a decent sized metro area. I just checked my small undergrad town: 3 in the city, and 2 in the adjacent city. BoA has only 1 - and only in the adjacent city. In my experience, it's always been able to find a Co-Op ATM than a BoA one. Others complained about poor services, web sites, etc. I suppose that can be true, but it isn't for mine. In fact, I had to ditch one of the national banks because it couldn't provide simple features that my local credit union does - stuff like limiting which of my checking accounts is tied to my ATM card - without limiting it in their online site. So if I tied my ATM card to only one account, then when I logged in to the account's site, it would not let me transfer money between the accounts that are not on the ATM (although it would let me view transactions, etc). I've also used my debit card in other countries. It worked just like any other card would (I did have to inform them in advance so it wouldn't trip up fraud detection). > and they absolutely will not offer the same range of credit cards with good rewards programs. You do not need to have a bank account with Chase and other companies to get good credit cards with rewards programs.