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Many Californians would willingly work in 1900s factory conditions with machines eating body parts and people passing out from exhaustion because that's the onl

Many Californians would willingly work in 1900s factory conditions with machines eating body parts and people passing out from exhaustion because that's the only work they can get. This kind of completely unregulated employment market that you seem to want is exactly the thing that people fought against for decades for damn good reasons.

shuckles 6y ago
There is plenty of unfilled demand for the trades, so I’m skeptical that there is a large pool of labor willing to work those kinds of jobs.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ac29 6y ago
  Sure, but the post you are responding to isn't talking about things like electricians or plumbers - which require some amount of training and licensing/certification. They're talking about things like garment workers - jobs with little to no requirements.
  - shuckles 6y ago
    Unskilled day labor in the Bay Area easily charges $25/day with breaks and, if your GC is ethical, workers comp. I also think it's incorrect to characterize factory workers as unskilled. Labor intensive manufacturing in America usually involves qualities of dexterity, since those are hard to automate, which inherently have a skill component.
- bsder 6y ago
  Your statement is factually false. If there were that much pent up demand for the trades, wages would be going up. That is not the case.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
The characterization of "completely unregulated" seems pretty silly, given that Prop 22 imposes a decent number of new regulations on the app-based employment market.
0-O-0 6y ago
Then it would make sense to look at what makes California such a job wasteland and maybe try to fix it instead of limiting job opportunities even more.
pmoriarty 6y ago
The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire[1] was a real-life example. People in that factory worked there of their own free will. Children working in mines[2] also did so of their own free will. It is the fondest dream of many a libertarian to take us back to those days, where people could work freely, without government interference. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fi... [2] - https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/child-miners-lewis-hine/ https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/child-miners-lewis-hine/
- nickpp 6y ago
  The fact that you have to go 100 years in the past for your examples speaks volumes. Today's companies pay employees hundreds of thousands while enticing them with onsite massages and ping pong tables. People have choices and it’s thanks to a healthy, diverse job market, not due to government intervention. You want to help workers? Go ahead and build companies that offer well paid, decent jobs. Don’t rob people of their best asset: choice.
  - ac29 6y ago
    Factory fires are not terribly uncommon in developing nations, much more recently than 100 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Dhaka_garment_factory_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Dhaka_garment_factory_fir...
    - nickpp 6y ago
      Again - a developing nation is pretty much how the USA was 100 years ago...
  - pmoriarty 6y ago
    How many drivers is Uber paying hundreds of thousands of dollars plus massages and ping pong tables to? We're talking about people not even getting health care coverage, and who may actually be losing money on the balance, due to the depreciation of their cars, insurance premiums, maintenance, and other costs which they, rather than their employer, have to bear, thanks to Prop 22. The point I was making, however, was not about Uber drivers specifically, but about the position that as long as an arrangement is freely agreed to it's ok. That attitude leads to all sorts of exploitation. Uber's arrangement with their drivers is just the tip of the iceberg. Amazon's exploitation of their warehouse workers is a related example, with much worse done in countries that have no labor or workplace safety laws.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
matt-attack 6y ago
Honest question: do you feel it’s noble to tell that supposed person in your scenario that he or she he’s not permitted to except that job? Or that his employer is not permitted to offer it? In other words there are two consenting adults, one offering a position and one willing and eager to except it. Enter you, who wishes to get in the middle of it. For what it’s worth, I have great compassion for someone who is stuck in a situation where they feel compelled to take a difficult, or dangerous, or Low paid job. But at the same time I Cannot muster the hubris needed, nor do I think I have the moral authority, to insert myself into two other peoples business. I believe there must be other ways to remedy the situation, that don’t involve prohibiting free trade.

shuckles 6y ago

There is plenty of unfilled demand for the trades, so I’m skeptical that there is a large pool of labor willing to work those kinds of jobs.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ac29 6y ago
Sure, but the post you are responding to isn't talking about things like electricians or plumbers - which require some amount of training and licensing/certification. They're talking about things like garment workers - jobs with little to no requirements.
- shuckles 6y ago
  Unskilled day labor in the Bay Area easily charges $25/day with breaks and, if your GC is ethical, workers comp. I also think it's incorrect to characterize factory workers as unskilled. Labor intensive manufacturing in America usually involves qualities of dexterity, since those are hard to automate, which inherently have a skill component.
bsder 6y ago
Your statement is factually false. If there were that much pent up demand for the trades, wages would be going up. That is not the case.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

The characterization of "completely unregulated" seems pretty silly, given that Prop 22 imposes a decent number of new regulations on the app-based employment market.

0-O-0 6y ago

Then it would make sense to look at what makes California such a job wasteland and maybe try to fix it instead of limiting job opportunities even more.

pmoriarty 6y ago

The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire[1] was a real-life example. People in that factory worked there of their own free will. Children working in mines[2] also did so of their own free will. It is the fondest dream of many a libertarian to take us back to those days, where people could work freely, without government interference. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fi... [2] - https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/child-miners-lewis-hine/ https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/child-miners-lewis-hine/

nickpp 6y ago
The fact that you have to go 100 years in the past for your examples speaks volumes. Today's companies pay employees hundreds of thousands while enticing them with onsite massages and ping pong tables. People have choices and it’s thanks to a healthy, diverse job market, not due to government intervention. You want to help workers? Go ahead and build companies that offer well paid, decent jobs. Don’t rob people of their best asset: choice.
- ac29 6y ago
  Factory fires are not terribly uncommon in developing nations, much more recently than 100 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Dhaka_garment_factory_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Dhaka_garment_factory_fir...
  - nickpp 6y ago
    Again - a developing nation is pretty much how the USA was 100 years ago...
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  How many drivers is Uber paying hundreds of thousands of dollars plus massages and ping pong tables to? We're talking about people not even getting health care coverage, and who may actually be losing money on the balance, due to the depreciation of their cars, insurance premiums, maintenance, and other costs which they, rather than their employer, have to bear, thanks to Prop 22. The point I was making, however, was not about Uber drivers specifically, but about the position that as long as an arrangement is freely agreed to it's ok. That attitude leads to all sorts of exploitation. Uber's arrangement with their drivers is just the tip of the iceberg. Amazon's exploitation of their warehouse workers is a related example, with much worse done in countries that have no labor or workplace safety laws.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

matt-attack 6y ago

Honest question: do you feel it’s noble to tell that supposed person in your scenario that he or she he’s not permitted to except that job? Or that his employer is not permitted to offer it? In other words there are two consenting adults, one offering a position and one willing and eager to except it. Enter you, who wishes to get in the middle of it. For what it’s worth, I have great compassion for someone who is stuck in a situation where they feel compelled to take a difficult, or dangerous, or Low paid job. But at the same time I Cannot muster the hubris needed, nor do I think I have the moral authority, to insert myself into two other peoples business. I believe there must be other ways to remedy the situation, that don’t involve prohibiting free trade.