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> Ant is definitely not a pyramid scheme, if you've ever been to China you'd know. I have been to China. As a foreigner I was not able to use any digital cash

> Ant is definitely not a pyramid scheme, if you've ever been to China you'd know. I have been to China. As a foreigner I was not able to use any digital cash technologies (such as WeChat or Alipay). Did you have a Chinese bank account? How were you able to use Ant tech?

dmix 6y ago
Apparently it’s recommended for visitors to get a Chinese bank account which was easy to do. At least it was in the past. Which I learned from a YouTube channel about living in China. The guys sister visited for a few weeks and the first thing he did was take her to a bank and open an account. Which she was able to do as a foreigner. I don’t know if that has changed recently.
- alisonatwork 6y ago
  I'm not sure what "recent" means, but 3-4 years ago when i first got to China it was very difficult to open a bank account as a foreigner, even with a huge wad of yuan in my pocket. It might just be the areas i visited, but i tried several different banks while traveling on a tourist visa and every single one said no. I eventually was able to open an account, but i had to show proof of residence (apartment lease), proof of residence registration (obtained from local police), work permit and employment contract. Even opening a second account a couple years later (required because many employers in China will only pay into one specific bank) and speaking fairly fluent Chinese i had to go through the same song and dance.
  - dmix 6y ago
    That’s interesting, I may be wrong then about the odds in general of this approach. The guy had a work permit permit and lived in Shenzhen. He now left China for good over various reasons and now makes anti China for a living (whom I’m sure is easy for anyone to find) but I remember that one distinctly being fairly recent. Upon second thought he may have referenced it in one of the videos of why he left China where one of his biggest complaints is how it’s harder for foreigners to live there than ever at the moment. I personally don’t know much about the topic sadly. I was planning to go then the pandemic hit.
    - ksec 6y ago
      Shenzhen and Shanghai are possibly the only two that could do it within days and not weeks. In ALL other regions ( including Beijing ) it is either weeks / months or literally impossible. ( Because no one knows how to do it )
      - dmix 6y ago
        Good to know. I'm curious why Shanghai is on your list but not Beijing.
        ksec 6y ago
        It is basically down to experience and efficiency of those operations and know-how. Beijing tends to be a tad slower and stricter. It is still infinitely better better than say, Nanjing, where no one in the branch has a clue how to do it.
  - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
    You have to have a resident visa (like a Z working or a student visa). I've never heard of any bank giving bank accounts to tourists; on the other hand it is easy to get one when you have all the proper docs. Getting a credit card on the other hand...forget it.
alisonatwork 6y ago
One of the many exhausting things about living in China as a foreigner is how much of their tech infrastructure excludes anyone who is not a Chinese citizen. Aside from the challenge of getting Alipay set up, the moment you leave mainland China (even to Hong Kong) you can no longer use Alipay to pay for anything, even though Chinese citizens are able to do this without any trouble. Similarly, a lot of government-mandated apps require you to enter a state ID number which foreigners are not issued. The worst was living there through the coronavirus lockdowns and travel restrictions, because every town had its own special corona app to prove you had a green health code, but hardly any towns supported registration with a foreign passport. I presume that's changed now (i don't live there any more), but it's China, so there will undoubtedly be a new hazy private/public partnership gimmick app that makes things awkward for foreigners.
- beaunative 6y ago
  China's law does not apply, at least not easily, to a foreign citizens acting on a foreign soil, thus the Chinese company providing service would mean huge legal hazard for them, which is not the case for chinese citizen, where the contract entered between two chinese entities are protected under Chinese law and can be argued on a court of that jurisdiction.
seanmcdirmid 6y ago
Not parent, I had a few Chinese bank accounts but at the time you needed a Chinese ID number to use digital cash technologies. And no, Ant never became a thing for me (left in late 2016).

dmix 6y ago

Apparently it’s recommended for visitors to get a Chinese bank account which was easy to do. At least it was in the past. Which I learned from a YouTube channel about living in China. The guys sister visited for a few weeks and the first thing he did was take her to a bank and open an account. Which she was able to do as a foreigner. I don’t know if that has changed recently.

alisonatwork 6y ago
I'm not sure what "recent" means, but 3-4 years ago when i first got to China it was very difficult to open a bank account as a foreigner, even with a huge wad of yuan in my pocket. It might just be the areas i visited, but i tried several different banks while traveling on a tourist visa and every single one said no. I eventually was able to open an account, but i had to show proof of residence (apartment lease), proof of residence registration (obtained from local police), work permit and employment contract. Even opening a second account a couple years later (required because many employers in China will only pay into one specific bank) and speaking fairly fluent Chinese i had to go through the same song and dance.
- dmix 6y ago
  That’s interesting, I may be wrong then about the odds in general of this approach. The guy had a work permit permit and lived in Shenzhen. He now left China for good over various reasons and now makes anti China for a living (whom I’m sure is easy for anyone to find) but I remember that one distinctly being fairly recent. Upon second thought he may have referenced it in one of the videos of why he left China where one of his biggest complaints is how it’s harder for foreigners to live there than ever at the moment. I personally don’t know much about the topic sadly. I was planning to go then the pandemic hit.
  - ksec 6y ago
    Shenzhen and Shanghai are possibly the only two that could do it within days and not weeks. In ALL other regions ( including Beijing ) it is either weeks / months or literally impossible. ( Because no one knows how to do it )
    - dmix 6y ago
      Good to know. I'm curious why Shanghai is on your list but not Beijing.
      - ksec 6y ago
        It is basically down to experience and efficiency of those operations and know-how. Beijing tends to be a tad slower and stricter. It is still infinitely better better than say, Nanjing, where no one in the branch has a clue how to do it.
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  You have to have a resident visa (like a Z working or a student visa). I've never heard of any bank giving bank accounts to tourists; on the other hand it is easy to get one when you have all the proper docs. Getting a credit card on the other hand...forget it.

alisonatwork 6y ago

One of the many exhausting things about living in China as a foreigner is how much of their tech infrastructure excludes anyone who is not a Chinese citizen. Aside from the challenge of getting Alipay set up, the moment you leave mainland China (even to Hong Kong) you can no longer use Alipay to pay for anything, even though Chinese citizens are able to do this without any trouble. Similarly, a lot of government-mandated apps require you to enter a state ID number which foreigners are not issued. The worst was living there through the coronavirus lockdowns and travel restrictions, because every town had its own special corona app to prove you had a green health code, but hardly any towns supported registration with a foreign passport. I presume that's changed now (i don't live there any more), but it's China, so there will undoubtedly be a new hazy private/public partnership gimmick app that makes things awkward for foreigners.

beaunative 6y ago
China's law does not apply, at least not easily, to a foreign citizens acting on a foreign soil, thus the Chinese company providing service would mean huge legal hazard for them, which is not the case for chinese citizen, where the contract entered between two chinese entities are protected under Chinese law and can be argued on a court of that jurisdiction.

seanmcdirmid 6y ago

Not parent, I had a few Chinese bank accounts but at the time you needed a Chinese ID number to use digital cash technologies. And no, Ant never became a thing for me (left in late 2016).