4 ms·

Note what the police are doing and what they're going after: "police searched 83 apartments and other buildings to seize evidence like smart phones and laptops

Note what the police are doing and what they're going after: "police searched 83 apartments and other buildings to seize evidence like smart phones and laptops. Prosecutors said 96 suspects are being questioned about hateful posts they made online." "One of the suspects is accused of making anti-Semitic comments while another insulted a female politician online" Anyone who is interested in free speech issues and civil rights should be very uneasy by the idea that the police can raid your house and interrogate you over online comments that are deemed by the politics de jour to be "hate speech", which, as we all know, is a slippery and ever-expanding category. The US doesn't have this problem with wide legal protections for free speech online or off. Europeans are not so lucky.

Jyaif 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exce...
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Here in the US, I could go downtown, stand on a street corner, and yell "F^%# the president" (or governor, or senator, or judge, or whoever). Before this year, I'd probably get some frowns and some smiles (under any administration). This year, I might get beat up. What I wouldn't get is arrested. If I got in trouble with the police, it would be for disturbing the peace, not for the content of my speech.
- 0x22d 6y ago
  Your scenario is not based in reality. The implication here is that you'd get beat up for your distaste of Trump. However, much evidence shows that you'd more likely be beat up if you showed support for him.
- bmmayer1 6y ago
  Reminds me of the old joke... Reagan was talking to Gorbachev, and told him "in the US, anyone can march into my office and yell 'I don't like the way you're running your country!'" Gorbachev replied, "Same for us! In the Soviet Union, anyone can march into my office and yell 'I don't like the way Reagan is running his country!'"
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  A significant part of the population decided free speech is only relevant if the state does the censoring. It is really a failure of education.
andor 6y ago
Anyone who is interested in free speech issues and civil rights should be very uneasy by the idea that the police can raid your house and interrogate you over online comments that are deemed by the politics de jour to be "hate speech" Not trying to convince you or anything, but I think you'd have a different opinion on the subject if you were as exposed as the politician mentioned in the article and regularly received death threats and harassment. Consider also that a raid in Germany is not like a raid in the US. The US doesn't have this problem with wide legal protections for free speech online or off. Europeans are not so lucky. This is not reflected in the World Press Freedom Index, maybe because there are non-hateful ways to express most thoughts: https://rsf.org/en/ranking https://rsf.org/en/ranking
- bmmayer1 6y ago
  Politicians are, by their choice of profession, exposed. Which is not to say that death threats and/or harassment shouldn't have legal consequences based on their severity, which of course they should. But note that this article mentions neither, instead saying that someone "insulted a female politician online," which I hope you would agree shouldn't be a crime. I...also don't know how to respond to your point about the Press Freedom Index other than to say, most European countries have blasphemy or heresy laws, and those apply to the press as well. So I don't know what this index is scoring based off of, but American journalists just don't go to jail for what they write. As opposed to David Irving[1], who did just that. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_trial
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  This doesn't excuse this behavior. I would be one of the first to go if people start to measure skulls again. And this behavior of executive forces is much more concerning than what some people post on the internet. It shows to me that the EU is not ready to take a leadership role in the 21st century and just tries to repeat old mistakes. Pitiful really and the brutality of the raid isn't the issue here. It is not even a question if the German state will use this to suppress "unfortunate" opinions and they would not deny it if you asked.

Jyaif 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exce...

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

Here in the US, I could go downtown, stand on a street corner, and yell "F^%# the president" (or governor, or senator, or judge, or whoever). Before this year, I'd probably get some frowns and some smiles (under any administration). This year, I might get beat up. What I wouldn't get is arrested. If I got in trouble with the police, it would be for disturbing the peace, not for the content of my speech.

0x22d 6y ago
Your scenario is not based in reality. The implication here is that you'd get beat up for your distaste of Trump. However, much evidence shows that you'd more likely be beat up if you showed support for him.
bmmayer1 6y ago
Reminds me of the old joke... Reagan was talking to Gorbachev, and told him "in the US, anyone can march into my office and yell 'I don't like the way you're running your country!'" Gorbachev replied, "Same for us! In the Soviet Union, anyone can march into my office and yell 'I don't like the way Reagan is running his country!'"
raxxorrax 6y ago
A significant part of the population decided free speech is only relevant if the state does the censoring. It is really a failure of education.

andor 6y ago

Anyone who is interested in free speech issues and civil rights should be very uneasy by the idea that the police can raid your house and interrogate you over online comments that are deemed by the politics de jour to be "hate speech" Not trying to convince you or anything, but I think you'd have a different opinion on the subject if you were as exposed as the politician mentioned in the article and regularly received death threats and harassment. Consider also that a raid in Germany is not like a raid in the US. The US doesn't have this problem with wide legal protections for free speech online or off. Europeans are not so lucky. This is not reflected in the World Press Freedom Index, maybe because there are non-hateful ways to express most thoughts: https://rsf.org/en/ranking https://rsf.org/en/ranking

bmmayer1 6y ago
Politicians are, by their choice of profession, exposed. Which is not to say that death threats and/or harassment shouldn't have legal consequences based on their severity, which of course they should. But note that this article mentions neither, instead saying that someone "insulted a female politician online," which I hope you would agree shouldn't be a crime. I...also don't know how to respond to your point about the Press Freedom Index other than to say, most European countries have blasphemy or heresy laws, and those apply to the press as well. So I don't know what this index is scoring based off of, but American journalists just don't go to jail for what they write. As opposed to David Irving[1], who did just that. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_trial
raxxorrax 6y ago
This doesn't excuse this behavior. I would be one of the first to go if people start to measure skulls again. And this behavior of executive forces is much more concerning than what some people post on the internet. It shows to me that the EU is not ready to take a leadership role in the 21st century and just tries to repeat old mistakes. Pitiful really and the brutality of the raid isn't the issue here. It is not even a question if the German state will use this to suppress "unfortunate" opinions and they would not deny it if you asked.