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Ant is definitely not a pyramid scheme, if you've ever been to China you'd know. But b. is very credible. Jack has been criticized by state media as he piled n

Ant is definitely not a pyramid scheme, if you've ever been to China you'd know. But b. is very credible. Jack has been criticized by state media as he piled negative comments to the regulators and traditional lenders - and frankly the regulators were right. Ant essentially needs no deposit to lend, relying on big data and not any traditional financial safety instruments. It's been overlooked for a while but when you get the big benefit of living outside of regulations you shut up and take what you get, and not making a public fuss about how 'every bank is stupid for following regulations'.

jonathannat 6y ago
your first sentence contradicts your second paragraph :) > Ant is definitely not a pyramid scheme, if you've ever been to China you'd know. > frankly the regulators were right. Ant essentially needs no deposit to lend
- franklampard 6y ago
  Low deposit rate makes it a very risky lending business, not necessarily a pyramid scheme
pjc50 6y ago
> Ant essentially needs no deposit to lend, Not necessarily deposits but reserves; the whole European financial crisis of 2008+ was over the question of "what IS the minimum reserve level for systemic safety?"? > relying on big data and not any traditional financial safety instruments This is the Boeing 737-MAX approach: it's not intrinsically safe, but we can cover its shortcomings with software.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  To be fair no giant metal tube is intrinsically safe when thrown through the air at 1000kph. Now, the MAX, obviously, less so haha.
  - enkid 6y ago
    Air travel is extremely, incredibly safe. It's safer than any means of travel have ever been in the history of the planet.
    - solidasparagus 6y ago
      That doesn't make throwing a metal tube through the air intrinsically safe, it just means we're very cognizant of how dangerous it is.
      - enkid 6y ago
        I guess it depends how on what you mean by intrinsically
        arcticbull 6y ago
        I’m just saying a plane wouldn’t stay up without extensive software control. Substantially all the avionics on a plane are dedicated to covering the shortcomings and turning an intrinsically unsafe process into an exceptionally safe process.
seanmcdirmid 6y ago
> Ant is definitely not a pyramid scheme, if you've ever been to China you'd know. As someone who lived in China for 9 years, these kinds of arguments are always really vacuous. Perhaps just say Ant isn't like Amway and has a low fraud rate (for China, anyways), which is probably enough to deflect the pyramid scheme argument without resorting to an authority fallacy.
- sangnoir 6y ago
  > As someone who lived in China for 9 years [...] without resorting to an authority fallacy. hmm...
  - elefanten 6y ago
    He's not supporting his point by invoking his time in China. He's directly using it to deflate the other comment which _did_ use it as support for their claim. It's appealing to an authority to say (or, to demonstrate from experience) that it is false authority.
justinzollars 6y ago
> Ant is definitely not a pyramid scheme, if you've ever been to China you'd know. I have been to China. As a foreigner I was not able to use any digital cash technologies (such as WeChat or Alipay). Did you have a Chinese bank account? How were you able to use Ant tech?
- dmix 6y ago
  Apparently it’s recommended for visitors to get a Chinese bank account which was easy to do. At least it was in the past. Which I learned from a YouTube channel about living in China. The guys sister visited for a few weeks and the first thing he did was take her to a bank and open an account. Which she was able to do as a foreigner. I don’t know if that has changed recently.
  - alisonatwork 6y ago
    I'm not sure what "recent" means, but 3-4 years ago when i first got to China it was very difficult to open a bank account as a foreigner, even with a huge wad of yuan in my pocket. It might just be the areas i visited, but i tried several different banks while traveling on a tourist visa and every single one said no. I eventually was able to open an account, but i had to show proof of residence (apartment lease), proof of residence registration (obtained from local police), work permit and employment contract. Even opening a second account a couple years later (required because many employers in China will only pay into one specific bank) and speaking fairly fluent Chinese i had to go through the same song and dance.
    - dmix 6y ago
      That’s interesting, I may be wrong then about the odds in general of this approach. The guy had a work permit permit and lived in Shenzhen. He now left China for good over various reasons and now makes anti China for a living (whom I’m sure is easy for anyone to find) but I remember that one distinctly being fairly recent. Upon second thought he may have referenced it in one of the videos of why he left China where one of his biggest complaints is how it’s harder for foreigners to live there than ever at the moment. I personally don’t know much about the topic sadly. I was planning to go then the pandemic hit.

jonathannat 6y ago

your first sentence contradicts your second paragraph :) > Ant is definitely not a pyramid scheme, if you've ever been to China you'd know. > frankly the regulators were right. Ant essentially needs no deposit to lend

franklampard 6y ago
Low deposit rate makes it a very risky lending business, not necessarily a pyramid scheme

pjc50 6y ago

> Ant essentially needs no deposit to lend, Not necessarily deposits but reserves; the whole European financial crisis of 2008+ was over the question of "what IS the minimum reserve level for systemic safety?"? > relying on big data and not any traditional financial safety instruments This is the Boeing 737-MAX approach: it's not intrinsically safe, but we can cover its shortcomings with software.

arcticbull 6y ago
To be fair no giant metal tube is intrinsically safe when thrown through the air at 1000kph. Now, the MAX, obviously, less so haha.
- enkid 6y ago
  Air travel is extremely, incredibly safe. It's safer than any means of travel have ever been in the history of the planet.
  - solidasparagus 6y ago
    That doesn't make throwing a metal tube through the air intrinsically safe, it just means we're very cognizant of how dangerous it is.
    - enkid 6y ago
      I guess it depends how on what you mean by intrinsically
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        I’m just saying a plane wouldn’t stay up without extensive software control. Substantially all the avionics on a plane are dedicated to covering the shortcomings and turning an intrinsically unsafe process into an exceptionally safe process.

seanmcdirmid 6y ago

> Ant is definitely not a pyramid scheme, if you've ever been to China you'd know. As someone who lived in China for 9 years, these kinds of arguments are always really vacuous. Perhaps just say Ant isn't like Amway and has a low fraud rate (for China, anyways), which is probably enough to deflect the pyramid scheme argument without resorting to an authority fallacy.

sangnoir 6y ago
> As someone who lived in China for 9 years [...] without resorting to an authority fallacy. hmm...
- elefanten 6y ago
  He's not supporting his point by invoking his time in China. He's directly using it to deflate the other comment which _did_ use it as support for their claim. It's appealing to an authority to say (or, to demonstrate from experience) that it is false authority.

justinzollars 6y ago

> Ant is definitely not a pyramid scheme, if you've ever been to China you'd know. I have been to China. As a foreigner I was not able to use any digital cash technologies (such as WeChat or Alipay). Did you have a Chinese bank account? How were you able to use Ant tech?

dmix 6y ago
Apparently it’s recommended for visitors to get a Chinese bank account which was easy to do. At least it was in the past. Which I learned from a YouTube channel about living in China. The guys sister visited for a few weeks and the first thing he did was take her to a bank and open an account. Which she was able to do as a foreigner. I don’t know if that has changed recently.
- alisonatwork 6y ago
  I'm not sure what "recent" means, but 3-4 years ago when i first got to China it was very difficult to open a bank account as a foreigner, even with a huge wad of yuan in my pocket. It might just be the areas i visited, but i tried several different banks while traveling on a tourist visa and every single one said no. I eventually was able to open an account, but i had to show proof of residence (apartment lease), proof of residence registration (obtained from local police), work permit and employment contract. Even opening a second account a couple years later (required because many employers in China will only pay into one specific bank) and speaking fairly fluent Chinese i had to go through the same song and dance.
  - dmix 6y ago
    That’s interesting, I may be wrong then about the odds in general of this approach. The guy had a work permit permit and lived in Shenzhen. He now left China for good over various reasons and now makes anti China for a living (whom I’m sure is easy for anyone to find) but I remember that one distinctly being fairly recent. Upon second thought he may have referenced it in one of the videos of why he left China where one of his biggest complaints is how it’s harder for foreigners to live there than ever at the moment. I personally don’t know much about the topic sadly. I was planning to go then the pandemic hit.