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LSD: The Geek's Wonder Drug
- simonsarris 15y agoReminds me of Paul Erdős, who used amphetamines (think Adderall) for a similar purpose. After 1971 Erdős also took amphetamines, despite the concern of his friends, one of whom (Ron Graham) bet him $500 that he could not stop taking the drug for a month. Erdős won the bet, but complained that during his abstinence mathematics had been set back by a month: "Before, when I looked at a piece of blank paper my mind was filled with ideas. Now all I see is a blank piece of paper." After he won the bet, he promptly resumed his amphetamine use.
- vidiviciveni 15y agoAmphetamines did help him become arguable the most productive mathematician (in terms of papers) of all time. Although I think LSD is completely different and more of a creativity unleashing type drug. Either way the potential for psychedelics are incredible and it's a shame the drug war (thanks to Reagan in particular) have draconian laws that inhibit its responsible use. LSD is one of those in particular that can turn people into a healthier and more peaceful mental state if used correctly, even just through one use (think enlightenment through ego death).
- nandemo 15y agoThe difference is that amphetamines, though potentially addictive and dangerous, can actually help you do math or programming. I'm skeptical that people can code better (if at all) while on LSD.
- bherms 15y agoIt's not that you code better or write math equations better... It's a temporary change in the state of your mind which helps you see things from a different perspective. Think of a time when you were stuck on a really hard problem and then went away from it for a while only to have the solution pop in your head... It's kinda like that, but on an entirely different level.
- vidiviciveni 15y agoThe problem with your line of thinking (and many others that condemn the use of psychedelics) is that you clearly have never tried LSD. Your absolute bias is one of the many reasons its potential is hindered.
- magoghm 15y agoYou can manage to code while on LSD but it is very hard. After trying it a couple of times I decided it just takes out the fun from both LSD and coding.
- leoc 15y ago> I'm skeptical that people can code better (if at all) while on LSD. Here's another reported success: "Use of LSD-25 for Computer Programming" by Dennis R. Wier http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v18n1/v18n1-MAPS_24.pdf http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v18n1/v18n1-MAPS_24.pdf (Previously on HN: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=654168 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=654168 )
- dwiel 15y agoI've taken small doses of LSD (half a hit) with great success while coding or creating more traditional art. I find that the small dose makes it easier for me to imagine where bugs might be, visualize and compare algorithms, and consider both high level architecture ideas as well as low level details simultaneously. That said, I've only tried it a few times back in college, so I don't have many data points. Larger doses work differently, and less directly for me. They tend to help me gain greater perspective on my life and my work. It can give me a renewed energy and excitement for what I am doing, or, conversely it can help me realize that I am on the wrong track, and will motivate me to make changes that help me live a more fulfilling life. I often end a strong experience with so much energy that I can't wait for the next day to begin so I can put into action everything I had been thinking about. I code vastly better when I have a deep understanding about why I am coding. As with anything, these experiences have diminishing returns, so spacing them out over years has helped me keep them 'productive'.
- tomlin 15y agoI have ADD and am a coder. I am on Concerta (methylphenidate, a derivative of methamphetamine) and find that my interest in math, as well as programming, has increased significantly.
- daeken 15y agoNote: Methylphenidate is not actually an amphetamine derivative, although it's similar in structure and function.
- tomlin 15y agoYes, it is a derivative of methamphetamine. Adderall (amphetamine) and Concerta both are used to treat ADD.
- ghotli 15y agoIf we're getting technical it's merely in the same family as methamphetamine. Meth causes a _much_ larger dopamine response which among other reasons is why people find it awesome and addictive.
- daeken 15y agoErr, no. Methamphetamine is significantly different from methylphenidate. Methylphenidate (Concerta, Ritalin, etc) is more closely related to amphetamine, but still not a derivative. It's like saying that thebaine is a derivative of codeine due to them being similar in structure.
- BasDirks 15y agoI can confirm this. Concerta increases my performance, but I actually need it to function day-to-day. My ADD was only noticed at age 20 because despite suffering badly from it, I kicked ass in school. When I first took Concerta it was one giant ball of what the f*ck: was this vast quiet possible?
- blankslate 15y agoMe too, though I prefer dexamphetamine. I've given dex to other programmers on occasion; they're often amazed at how much it helps them concentrate and get things done. It's kind of like coffee that WORKS. Hence my favourite programming beverage: grind your beans, sprinkle finely powdered amphetamine on the top of the basket, and make yourself a nice motherfuckiato.
- 5l 15y agoThe only reason why you wouldn't is because you can't always choose what draws you in. If you can keep your focus pretty much anything is possible; you're not handicapped in the same way as you would be on alcohol for instance. For some interesting reading, see this [0] about a SF bike courier who works while tripping. [0] http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=84954 http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=84954
- danenania 15y agoIt's not so much coding that can benefit, but conceptualizing the architecture of the system as a whole, which is where the greatest gains in efficiency and elegance are to be found.
- blankslate 15y agoI've played chess under the influence of psilocybin with a sober friend. I was massacred. There are creative aspects to programming, and you might gain some insights that are applicable, but I'd save the implementation till you come down unless the dose was rather small.
- parfe 15y agoIn college I lived with artists. A few of their artist friends come over with big sketch pads, pencils and whatever else artists use. They all drop acid while telling me they can't wait to see their amazing creations once their minds are opened. I went out for a few hours and came back to find them all sitting around the living room. One sketch pad had a long black squiggle on it, the same design you'd make if you fell asleep while holding a pen to paper, and the rest had even less (One was literally two 1" lines forming a 90 degree angle). The next day they described the night as a huge success even though they never really attained any of their stated goals. I don't doubt they had a good time, but seeing them utterly fail to use the drug as a tool kinda makes me skeptical of the productive benefits. As a side note, if you want your ego stroked then ask a student artist for his opinion of your work. In the two years I lived with artists not a single negative comment was spoken by a student of anyone else's work. It was a guaranteed self-congratulatory feedback loop.
- bherms 15y agoThere's a major difference in the way the mind of a scientist or engineer works versus the mind of an art student. Whenever I take mushrooms, I usually follow a "schedule" of things to do and try. Others I know will literally lay on a couch for 10 hrs.
- Alex3917 15y ago"Others I know will literally lay on a couch for 10 hrs." You can't tell how much the person is getting out of the experience just by looking at them. They could just lie on the couch for ten hours with their eyes closed and be having one of the most profound experiences of their life. In fact, someone who is using the drug for introspection is almost certainly getting more out of the experience than someone who is using the drug to explore the world. Most serious psychonauts recommend taking the drug laying down in the dark while blindfolded to get the most out of it. I mean think about it, you're about to have one of the five most important experiences of your life, on par with death or the birth of a child.[1] Do you really want to have that experience while in a movie theater watching Harold & Kumar? [1] source: http://csp.org/psilocybin/ http://csp.org/psilocybin/ "Even at the 14-month follow-up, 58% of 36 volunteers rated the experience on the psilocybin session as among the five most personally meaningful experiences of their lives and 67% rated it among the five most spiritually significant experiences of their lives, with 11% and 17%, respectively, indicating that it was the single most meaningful experience, and the single most spiritually significant experience. Furthermore, 64% of the 36 volunteers indicated that the psilocybin session experience increased their sense of well-being or life satisfaction either moderately or very much, and 61% rated that the experience was associated with moderate to extreme positive behaviour change."
- Alex3917 15y agoThis article doesn't do a very good job explaining what it is that makes psychedelic drugs so intellectually interesting. I'd recommend listening to Terence McKenna talking about his childhood and how he discovered psychedelics. http://matrixmasters.net/archive/TerenceMcKenna/215-McKennaTeachTreePt1.mp3 http://matrixmasters.net/archive/TerenceMcKenna/215-McKennaT... Alternatively, listen to Alicia Danforth's amazing talk on giving psilocybin to terminal cancer patients to ease end of life anxiety: http://vimeo.com/10931182 http://vimeo.com/10931182
- kristofferR 15y agoI predict that LSD will become much more popular in the near future due to services like The Silk Road and Bitcoins. While other drugs can be detected quite easily in mail with scanners and such, LSD in plotter form can't be detected without actually opening every letter.
- johkra 15y agoFor people like me, who didn't know what "Silk Road" was in this context: It's an anonymous market for drugs using Tor. [1] Bitcoins are used for paying. [1] http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3984.0 http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3984.0
- diadem 15y agoIf you need to take psychedelics to 'unlock the wonders of your mind' or whatever just to do some simple programming, software may not be the field for you.
- pavel_lishin 15y agoDo you drink coffee or tea?
- diadem 15y agoYes. Are they psychedelics? No. Weird how that doesn't contradict my original point at all.
- bluedanieru 15y agoSo we're restricting it to psychedelics? Any reason for that?
- bronson 15y agoWow. It sounds like your mind could use some unlocking.
- samlevine 15y agoI don't know about you, but I've never imagined myself talking to god while drinking tea.
- rick888 15y ago
- tokenadult 15y agoAround the world, there are many different patterns of regulation of drugs, and here in the United States, schedule I controlled substances like LSD can be used for legitimate medical research. Research on new drugs is a multibillion dollar industry in several different countries. But there is a dearth of well statistically controlled studies of the safety and effectiveness of LSD for any purpose. Indeed, medical research more often pursues the issue of how to help emergency room patients who appear for treatment of psychotic symptoms triggered by illicit use of LSD. On the specific issue of programmer or scientist creativity and productivity, that too is a much researched field, but again there are not well controlled studies showing that anyone increases productivity or creativity in any occupation while using LSD. The checkered academic career of Timothy Leary is instructive in this regard. What research shows makes a huge difference in the productivity and work quality of programmers and scientists is steady deliberate practice building up problem-solving skills and growth mindset, along with accumulation of domain-specific knowledge. http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/athena/course/6/6.055/readings/ericsson-charness-am-psychologist.pdf http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/athena/course/6/6.055/readings/eric...
- nerfhammer 15y agoIt's cause LSD isn't eligible for patent. Research funds are overwhelming steered toward drugs or medical devices that are patentable.
- blankslate 15y agoIt's worth noting that Timothy Leary espouses some silly shit, and I'm not sure he improves the perceived legitimacy of psychotropics, despite his intentions.
- jasonmcalacanis 15y agoSteve Jobs admits to taking LSD. I rest my case.
- antidaily 15y ago"one of the two or three most important things [he had] done in [his] life". source: http://articles.cnn.com/2011-01-17/tech/steve.jobs.life_1_apple-chief-executive-wozniak-steve-jobs/4?_s=PM:TECH http://articles.cnn.com/2011-01-17/tech/steve.jobs.life_1_ap...
- oggz 15y agoWould anyone like to speculate what the other thing or two is?
- jasonmcalacanis 15y agoum..... get married and have a family?
- huherto 15y agoOn the other hand, I remember reading that Feynman never wanted to mess with his mind and avoided experimenting with drugs.
- eof 15y agoLet me chime in here with some personal experience. I am pretty much addicted to marijuana in terms of working and enjoying it. That is, I don't really enjoy programming nearly as much compared to when I am a bit baked. Mind you, I can work.. but it feels like such a chore (not always but I'm talking typically). There are a lot of us like this. As for LSD.. I have had many revelations while tripping, some I've had to later reject (which is a difficult process) and probably some that I should but have not yet. However, have learned a tremendous amount from whatever it is that is happening while tripping. I really think most people should trip their face off at least once. What it feels like is that you are tapping into something truer and deeper (when you are tripping, the hallucinating reality is the 'real' reality, that is how you experience it). I don't know what is actually happening, but it can be just absolutely amazing, or absolutely devestating. Take for instance, having an intellectual idea of the universe; like what it actually is. Some people are fascinated by thinking about these things anyway, others can't be bothered. Now imagine, instead of having some mathematical and intuitive understanding of the 'building blocks' of the universe.. you were thrown into hyperspace and pulled of your body and shown what the universe is, and what your place in it is. And it's a truly beautiful, elegant thing. And many many people have seen the same thing (it's the universal 'mystical experience'). It's like you were pulled out of the matrix, if just for a bit, and you can actually talk to other people about it, because it happens to lots of people who trip. Whether it is actually giving insight or not (it could definitely be some idiosyncratic interaction that lsd is having with your brain to make you see things in a certain way); it's at the very least fun, and can have a drastic effect on the way you oritent yourself toward reality. It can also affect your mental processes--LSD has the effect (at least in me) of continually changing the level of abstraction I am thinking in. You see a situation, then you see the bigger picture of that situation, and on and on until your mind can't even fathom any thing anymore. You set out to write a bash script to move some files, you suddenly realize an amazingly better way to do bash scripting, which makes you realize some basic change in the OS that would make UI 1000% friendlier, then you realize we shouldn't be using computers at all, then you realize you are here on earth for a purpose and you are wasting your life then your buddy is like--YO you're spacing off and the chain of thinking starts over.
- yid 15y ago
- tintin 15y agoMost drugs are not mind expanders, but blockage solvers. We care a lot about what others say and think. This is blocking our creativity. But you don't need drugs to solve this blockage. You can train yourself letting creativity flow and don't care about what other people say. A simple method is to start extreme. I think this applies to both graphic creativity as for programming creativity. They also call it "out of the box" thinking.
- omarchowdhury 15y agoI agree.
- truthsayer 15y agoSounds like self-delusion fed by gratification. I know which engineer I'd rather interact with.
- DrHankPym 15y agoDon't forget, that line of respect goes both ways.
- kstenerud 15y agoThere is a theory that the connection between the right and left hemisphere of the human brain has been diminishing over generations (The ancients used to audibly hear the voice of the gods, which was likely the right hemisphere, but that ability diminished around 4-5000 years ago). I wonder if all these psychadelic drugs are doing is enhancing the communication between right and left, or perhaps suppressing the left such that the right takes greater charge? The left does, after all, have very narrow focus as opposed to the right, which processes greater but less focused patterns.
- schmittz 15y agoThat's actually a very interesting biological question that I've never thought of before. It would be nice if the US would loosen its restrictions on testing of Schedule I drugs so that this could be studied more concretely with modern fMRI and so forth. (You'd think they'd be more understanding with LSD, they did run a program for 5 years where they unwittingly dosed people with the drug to no realized detriment...)
- daralthus 15y agoI tought exactly that, when I watched Jill Bolte Taylor's Ted talk.[1] She tells her experience of getting stroke in her left brain, and many things were very similar to some of my psychedelic experiences. [1] http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke...
- doyoulikeworms 15y agoThis is a really interesting theory to me (and probably many others). Care to share some links, documentaries, or documents regarding this topic? Would love to know more.
- kstenerud 15y agoI've read a few books over the years that touch upon the subject, but I don't remember anything online (It's been quite a number of years since I've visited the subject). I do know that Colin Wilson subscribes to the theory, so some of his nonfiction works might be helpful (I seem to remember something in The Criminal History of Mankind).
- takameyer 15y agoIt is amazing what psychedelics can bring to the table. Once you step outside of the stream of consciousness society creates for us, it's tough to want to be apart of it again. You feel free. No longer a cog in the machine, but perhaps more an observer or tinkerer. I realized for myself that I no longer have to be a part of that. It is truly out of the box thinking. I find myself outside of the box and generally I'm trying to find the boundaries. This may or may not effect my programming abilities, but it definitely puts the time I have in this world into perspective. The ability to abstract and visualize connections between objects has most definitely increased since experimentation, but I'm not sure if that's a bi-product of myself programming more, or the drugs themselves. All I know is that I would never take those moments back, the bad and the good, as they have shaped who I am and what I strive to be.
- schmittz 15y agoThere's no reason to attempt to prove (because you can't) or even speculate (because it doesn't matter) whether any of the "best" programmers anyone has or could suggest have done LSD or still do on a regular basis. However, I find it odd when people seem to insist that LSD is completely unnecessary or necessary to do things. Like it has been brought up before, Steve Jobs cites LSD as one of the most important experiences of his life. To rate it that highly would imply that he feels it somehow changed his psyche in such a way that it impacted who he is today. If that's the case, then you could (not concretely, but with good certainty) argue that LSD can have a positive effect on people's creativity. In fact, it does not actually matter whether it does or not so much as whether people perceive that it does (this could all be a placebo effect). Thus, the worst arguments that can be made on each end of the spectrum are that a) LSD is always unnecessary to foster innovation (Steve Jobs would argue it fostered his innovation in a way that wouldn't have happened if he hadn't tripped) and b) that everyone should do LSD at least once because it will enable them to accomplish more than otherwise possible. The choice is obviously personal and would work out beneficially for some and be fruitful for others. The important part is to remove the stigma of doing illicit drugs and to recognize that they can provide psychological benefits that are otherwise unrealizable OR acid can give you the best time you've ever had sitting on a couch. Most people that do it develop personal realizations that don't extend beyond themselves and that's all. It would be nice if people stopped passing judgment on those who belong to the other camp and instead offered their insights into why they have or haven't felt compelled to do acid. (Full disclosure: I've tripped about a dozen times over the last four years)
- jarin 15y agoI don't know that Steve Jobs is creative as much as he is an unrelenting perfectionist. He doesn't design things, Apple's recent success comes mostly from his ability to say "No, that's not good enough. Try again." Maybe his confidence to do that comes from having experienced some sort of revelations or profound experiences on LSD that make "good, but not good enough" products seem even more mundane and pedestrian to him.
- schmittz 15y ago
- utefan001 15y agoOne of my best friends committed suicide at age 18 in 1995. If LSD was not part of his life, I am sure the suicide would have never happened.
- rgbrgb 15y agoI'm very sorry to hear about your friend and his drugs abuse however this statement is pure speculation. I don't find drug abuse to be a convincing argument for prohibition - in the US, it has only escalated violence and addiction rates. There are obviously negative ways to use drugs. The article is about a positive way.
- TheSOB88 15y agoYou can't know that it's speculation. You didn't experience it.
- derwiki 15y agoI don't want to sound callous -- I'm sorry for your loss, that sounds awful -- but your comment doesn't give enough context to gain any insight. It just sounds like "drugs are bad, mkay."
- rick888 15y agoThe problem is that some people can't handle LSD or other hallucinogens and won't know until they are dead, hurt, or mentally screwed. It's this risk that makes them bad.
- danenania 15y agoSome people aren't capable of healthy romantic relationships and will cause and experience a lot of pain through trying to have them. Should we stop everyone from trying because some percentage will end up in abusive situations, or with broken hearts, or even dead? Risk alone doesn't make something bad, just risky. The question is if the potential rewards make the risks worthwhile, and the answer for LSD for many is clearly yes. Learning how to deal with risk is just part of life.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- zavulon 15y agoYou have to see this video, dedicated to Albert Hoffman (nominated for Academy Award in 1998): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xqcjNUqIAw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xqcjNUqIAw YouTube keeps deleting it, so in case link goes bad, just search for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_%281998_film%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_%281998_film%29
- bitwize 15y agoDid anyone else see Limitless? Did anyone else look at the symptoms of the drug he took (the fictional "NZT-48") and think, "hmmm, sounds like a more extreme form of MDMA"? Haven't tried it myself. Heard lots about it.
- jmtame 15y agowhy did you think it was more related to mdma versus an amphetamine? i remember when i saw limitless the first time, i kept thinking 'is this movie just about adderall and vyvanse?'
- bitwize 15y agoI've heard stories about people who were able to solve problems faster -- and tackle much bigger problems in their head -- while rolling. In fact they recommended using the drug for this purpose rather than just taking it and dancing at a rave or something, because the latter increases the risk that your brain will burn out. A bit like flooring it in neutral vs. flooring it in gear.
- ellyagg 15y agoI had the same reaction as grandparent, so that's a good question. In my case, maybe it's just because it's the closest drug I've used that matches the description from the movie and I've never tried other amphetamines. The bright blue skies and sun dappled leaves. The pronounced extroversion and talkativeness that makes you think you're a suave genius. The fearlessness. Like Jay-Z said, "MDMA has you feeling like a champion." MDMA is an amphetamine, so presumably all amphetamines may share these traits. If Adderall does it quite to the same degree as MDMA, I envy diagnosed sufferers of ADHD.
- terchin 15y agoI've taken MDMA (Molly) and Adderall, separately. MDMA was good every time. The Adderall only gave me sweaty palms and the inability to stay seated. They don't compare to each other, at least for me.
- deleted 15y ago
- blinkingled 15y agoMy sole, true goal in life has been to attain deepest levels of consciousness, connectedness with the being, and crystal clear clarity and to do so without external dependencies like drugs. I have struggled a lot with the odds and gotten only a few moments of what I am after. But I realized one thing in the process that it requires quite a bit of unlearning, forgiving, accepting, non-reacting and seeing it as it is. I still haven't lost any amount of belief in the feasibility of my experiment as I have gone closer to it - the fact that the degree and duration of my experience can be controlled by me alone is a powerful realization. Baba Ram Dass' book referenced in one of the comments on the wired site might be worth trying out - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00486UF8Y/ref=s9_simh_gw_p351_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0HNQC50P43BN7RDZJ4H1&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00486UF8Y/ref=s9_simh_gw_p...
- cal5k 15y agoOut of curiosity - do you ever drink wine with a meal? Have a beer with friends? Sip coffee discussing exciting new projects or dissecting a problem? These are all "drugs". Anything we put into our body, food or otherwise, is a "drug" and serves to alter us in some way. You will always have "external dependencies". You are dependent on food and water to live, social interaction to love and to feel friendship, and other humans to make your life possible through manufacture, farming, and medical care, among other things. We all have external dependencies. One of the beauties of ingesting hallucinogens is that this is the first realization you will likely have.
- blinkingled 15y agoI used to drink occasionally, of course. But I have been consciously cutting my artificially created dependencies wherever I can. There is a big difference between dependency on food and dependency on beer for example. Need vs. Want. I don't need beer to survive, I do need water. Beer I will use to lighten up, enjoy - water to satisfy thirst and keep the body working. Drugs fall in mind made wants. Taking drugs to set yourself free of bonds and compulsions that kill your being, joy, clarity - that's illogical - you are trading one dependency for other.
- Jun8 15y agoCan't resist: "Metaprogramming is the language feature that helps you write code that you won't be able to understand once the LSD wears off."
- johnjhayes 15y agoLSD is steroids for meditation. A cheat and a shortcut to the hard work. But it certainly seems to work ;-)
- thret 15y agoThis is what I understand it to be, as per Doors of Perception. It is on my to-do list when I'm 70.
- bodski 15y agoA related excerpt from BBC Horizon documentary on Psychedelic Science with interviews including Micrsoft's Bob Wallis on the use at the Homebrew Computer Club and Kary Mullis (who claims that LSD was intrumental in the development of the Polymerase chain reaction) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2WurhYEQyY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2WurhYEQyY [Flash video!]
- redsymbol 15y agoAt first I misread the headline as "Lisp: The Geek's Wonder Drug". Ha, maybe that works too ;)
- guruz 15y agoI'm a bit shocked here about people who expect LSD to make people code better or create better art and if it does not they complain it is "not effective". Things like LSD (or meditating, running, ...) allow you to to get your mind into a state that enables you to look behind nature, people, society and everything else. It's not a productivity tool and should not be used as such I think :-)
- Xurinos 15y agoIs this really a matter of discovering new patterns? Aren't those patterns just mutations and combinations of already-known patterns? In that case, wouldn't a better process be to expose yourself to new experiences, especially those that challenge you or take you out of your comfort zones? How about reading books and watching movies you have not viewed before? That would have a similar effect, right?
- Groxx 15y agoAre you arguing for it or against it? >expose yourself to new experiences, especially those that challenge you or take you out of your comfort zones? I haven't, and am not saying you should, merely pointing out that you seem to object on principle rather than for a reason. Drug "education" when I was in grade school amounted to massive scare tactics, usually without supporting evidence, while they now give you similar things for ADD (but you pay a hell of a lot more, and the chemicals have only existed for a few years). There's a lot of general, unsubstantiated fear in this area, and a lot of irrational trust in drug companies.
- michaelchisari 15y agoI've had a relatively drug-free life, although I've often volunteered to be the sober friend while everyone else imbibes. I've never regretted it, I've had some great times not on drugs. But if you've ever seen Little Miss Sunshine, the grandfather has a perspective on drug use that I've adopted wholeheartedly: Don't you start taking that shit. When you're young, you're crazy to do that stuff. What about you? I'm old! When you're old, you're crazy not to do it.
- bliss 15y agoI agree, with my proven addictive personality (i'm a smoker!), I'm terrified of morphine (and less pure versions), I have been in situations where the big bad H or opium was offered but have always refused not because I was really afraid of harm or of legality but because I was afraid that I would like it too much. I've long held to the morbid fact that as soon as I get my cancer/heart-failure/other terminal diagnosis, then I'll be starting Opium use with gusto!
- peterwwillis 15y agoWhat in the name of Albert Hoffman has the title got to do with the actual article? They talk about a couple scientists and a symposium on LSD. How is this a 'geek wonder drug'? CAFFEINE is the geek wonder drug. LSD probably contributes less than 5% of the world's drug-induced geek accomplishments.
- blankslate 15y agoI respectfully submit that caffeine is geek oxygen. If we're casting around for a "wonder" drug, I'd suggest looking at dexamphetamine sulphate, modafinil, etc.
- erikpukinskis 15y agoIf caffeine were geek oxygen, I would be dead.
- WiseWeasel 15y agoI am very grateful for my experiences with LSD, and wouldn't trade them for anything in the world. The best way I could describe its practical long-term effects, (once you've come down and realized you haven't broken your brain) is that your previous knowledge has been helpfully flagged as invalid, allowing you to acquire new knowledge in a less stupid, more nuanced manner. Everything you knew about groups of people, genders, categories of objects, in short all the knowledge that allows you to assess a situation and make sense of the world is marked as fallacious, and your mind is now freed to learn how the world works in a more sophisticated manner. I think everyone should take the opportunity to try it out, if given the chance to do so in a comfortable setting (comfortable socially - roughing it in the wild is fine, maybe even encouraged).
- tokenadult 15y agoThe best way I could describe its practical long-term effects, (once you've come down and realized you haven't broken your brain) is that your previous knowledge has been helpfully flagged as invalid, allowing you to acquire new knowledge in a less stupid, more nuanced manner. I am curious about whether or not you have ever tried living in another country with a different language and culture for an extended period of time, and then returning to live in a more familiar culture. That too can have the effect of flagging previous knowledge as invalid, allowing you to acquire new knowledge. Perhaps you have done this as well, but I'm not sure about that from what you say about yourself here. As G.K. Chesterton put it, "The whole object of travel is not to set foot on foreign land; it is at last to set foot on one's own country as a foreign land."
- michaelochurch 15y agoI don't see LSD as a "geek's wonder drug", and I'm skeptical of many of its purported benefits. Are those benefits real? Sure, but so are the risks. Could most of those, for most people, be better achieved (given enough time) through other means, such as yoga and meditation? Probably. To use geek terms, recreational drug use scales very poorly. I know a fair number of people who've used LSD once or a few times and consider it a very positive experience, but acidheads and frequent users seem to be among the most boring and damaged people I've met. Do I think these drugs are evil or that no one should use them? Of course not. They have incredible therapeutic potential and it's a travesty that they're illegal. On the other hand, I think a lot of people overstate their power (in terms of the ability to improve oneself) relative to alternatives. Do these drugs (LSD, MDMA, mushrooms, ayahuasca) have a place, for some people and in some circumstances? Absolutely. Should psychedelic therapies be researched and made available? Of course. Should anyone go to jail or be considered "evil" or "hedonistic" for the curiosity to try some psychedelics? Obviously, no. That said, I think a lot of "geeks" tend to overstate the benefits and downplay the dangers of recreational drug use, especially as a lifestyle. Timothy Leary was actually a mess toward the end of his life, and I've seen a few "psychonauts" crack up. There may be benefits of long-term recreational drug use that I'm wholly ignorant of, having never gone down that road and having no intention to do so, but what I've seen around me recommends against that pattern. I prefer meditation because, although it requires more time and patience, it scales better: you get accelerating positive returns, and safely as well.
- danenania 15y agoI don't see this article or the people it quotes advocating recreational use by any means. I think those who have studied psychedelics the most are the strongest proponents of moderate, intentional use in a safe atmosphere. I don't think the substances themselves should ever become a lifestyle, but the clarity and spiritual invigoration that they can help to provide and maintain, along with other practices like meditation, can make life much richer.
- Lost_BiomedE 15y agoA lot of the benefits that would be hard to achieve through time may be due to the shocking aspect or intensity of some of these drugs. Think of a rite of passage, it stresses people out of their normal thought/reaction/logic structure in order to help form a new one. Usually promises are made or responsibilities given that are then psychologically attached to the event. Given that, how the event is structured and to what ends is very meaningful. The damaged people might be due to more factors than the drug. Besides possible use amphetamines or other drugs, too, your experimental pool would only consist of those who would choose to use these drugs a lot for lengths of time and advertise this. There are some decent studies on use of peyote and ayahuasca where participants use it weekly or more for many years. They scored the same on physical well being but scored higher than the control for mental well being. BTW, I totally agree that the term 'geek wonder drug' is inappropriate.
- mman 15y agoI think it's cool to come out and say this. I have also had extremely positive experiences with drugs as a geek.
- moultano 15y agoIf you have any predisposition towards psychosis, in family history or personally, please avoid LSD. For those firmly rooted, it might be pleasurable or productive to become a little less so. If you're already sometimes on the edge, LSD can push you over. This happened to one of my best friends. Growing up he was crazy, creative, always saw things a little differently, prone to manic behavior. After a year of regular LSD use he was unable to form a coherent sentence. Please be careful.
- cageface 15y agoI've lost two good friends to this. Definitely be careful. A lot of government drug propaganda may be bullshit but it doesn't mean there aren't dangers.
- anonLSD 15y agoI'm very positive on LSD in general, but even to me, "a year of regular LSD use", or any kind of "regular" use sounds extreme and dangerous. I guess I take it for granted that something so intense should be approached with a great deal of respect and caution. I do find it odd that people naturally "get" this for things like driving a car, hang-gliding, back-country skiing, skateboarding, parkour.... but often shut down mentally when the subject is illegal drugs.
- mrleinad 15y agoHope you find it odd that people regularly smoke cigarettes as well. Because the point is not whether a drug is made legal or not by your congress of the moment, but whether the benefits of it outweight the health danger.
- anonLSD 15y agoPeople smoke cigarettes primarily because they are profoundly addictive, both chemically and psychologically. That confounds ordinary risk/reward analysis, and so I think it is a red herring here. Also, the "Hope you..." phrasing makes your comment come off as a bit sneering/condescending, just FYI.
- anonLSD 15y agoI offer some of the highlights of my personal experience with LSD, anonymously, due to the very unfortunate stigma. I'm very positive on its ability to unlock potential, trigger insights, expand perspective, and facilitate learning, even in spite of having experienced a few bad trips. Although the experience is deeply personal, I'll try to offer the most concrete accounts I can. First, of all the hundreds of little insights, interesting trains of thought, and connections made between previously unrelated ideas, there is one revelation in particular that floats to the top of my mind. It's this: LSD confronts you, in an extremely visceral way, with the fact that the entire universe that you perceive and interact with, the whole world and everybody in it, is entirely in your own mind at all times. Sure, it's perfectly reasonable to believe that it's all derived from an objective, external world - but you've never interacted directly with that one, and in fact you can't. Now, you might say that you already "know" this, philosophically. You can even do the smug, Internet know-it-all thing and say this is completely pedestrian, name-drop Descartes and a bunch of other philosophers, and hit me with a zinger about how this is about as deep as "The Matrix". But I'm not claiming that LSD leads you to the philosophical idea; I'm saying that it slaps you right in the face with it, viscerally. It doesn't tell you, so that you have to think about it in the abstract; it shows you, literally with your own eyes. It's the difference between knowing what the Grand Canyon looks like from pictures, and standing on the edge of it. It is very common for people to describe the onset of their first trip in terms of waking up, for the first time, ever. I'd describe it this way, too. It feels like waking up for the first time, and realizing that you'd been dreaming your whole life. Of course, this is really just an analogy, and it's more than just a feeling. It's a sudden shift in your actual perceptual processes, which are largely chemical, and have now been altered. But by the mere fact of them being altered, you realize that the default way of perceiving is just that - just a default. It isn't more "true" or more "real" - it's a default, it's massively culturally constructed, and it's characterized by a certain amount of non-questioning of assumptions. What's a color? What's a country? What's a "week"? What's a leader? What is solid? Which way is up? What's a job? Your brain starts trying to decompose every concept into basic principles, and you realize that for a lot of things in the human world, there are none. Just made-up, widespread beliefs that cause lots of people to act as-if, and in so doing, make them "real". Again, there is a difference between merely realizing this philosophically, and being transported outside of the web of culturally-reinforced beliefs and observing it from the outside. So there's a lot of shedding of constructed concepts. What's left when all that chaff blows away? Whatever it is, it a) seems a lot more real, and b) is obscured in normal consciousness. I'm not suggesting that it would be desirable to permanently lose the ability to think on the level of appointments, check-writing, stop-lights, prospectuses, and the rest of the "mundane". I am definitely suggesting that what is left of experience after all that is obliterated from consciousness is worth seeing. There are parallels here with Buddhism and enlightenment traditions. It's also extremely common for people to offer meditation as a substitute. It's perfectly fine if you don't want to do illegal drugs - hardly anyone will fault you. But don't fool yourself that you're getting the same effect. I've practiced meditation too, and while it does alter consciousness, there are many meaningfully different altered states - they are in no way equivalent or substitutable. (Think about it - if you can simulate an LSD trip by meditating, do you simulate a K trip by meditating differently? Can you meditate yourself to a heroin high by a different technique? LSD isn't just another interchangeable "enlightened" state - they're all specific in their sets of effects. I have no doubt that I too have missed out on plenty of profound experiences by not taking, doing, seeing, or achieving any number of things. It's a big world.) Sadly, this is turning into a wall of text, and I could still go on for the rest of the day. So, I'm going to force myself to wrap up with just a few more short highlights: * I learned OpenGL while tripping. The subjective experience was of the information slipping into my brain effortlessly. Normally, I have to read sentences and paragraphs multiple times for them to "sink in". That time, I just skimmed, and understood. The next day, sober, I wrote a couple of neat height-field/terrain programs in OpenGL. Of course we've all learned dozens of even more complicated topics without any drugs, so this anecdote is meaningless, right? All I'm talking about is what it felt like to learn it. It felt effortless by comparison to the way I normally learn. Placebo? Selective memory? Your other favorite bias? Might be interesting to know definitively - but I still had a really good time that night. * I once won a game of Mastermind on the first turn, without making any other guesses. This seriously freaked out the other people at the table. I wasn't tripping at the time, but I was in a distinctly "trippy" mentality - so much so that I was having a mini-flashback by the end of the turn. What I had done was to realize that the room was a closed system, containing the information about the winning pattern, and that as part of that system, I might have access to the information via other channels. Basically, I just paid very close attention to the other person's body language as I fingered different colored pegs, and allowed him to inadvertently "tell" me the correct colors and order. * I once did a drawing of a woman from the neck up, while tripping. When I started drawing her hair, I got lost. I was drawing hair for what seemed like hours. I was hiding dozens of other, nested, drawings inside the texture of the hair. It still looked more or less like hair, but if you really looked at it, it was teeming with a whole bunch of unrelated drawings. Sure, I could do the same thing now, but it had never before occurred to me to try that. There is something about tripping that is inherently amenable to that kind of recursive, fractal thinking. In short, don't knock subjective experiences. The enjoyment of music is a subjective experience, is it not?
- bliss 15y agoMy tuppence: I was an average student, perhaps an underachiever - I was the youngest in my class... Anyway around about the closing years of high school I discovered the recreational joy of LSD, which I took despite superman comics warning me of the dangers. For a while I dropped out (3 years) and enjoyed a life that was devoid of computers (until that point I had spent all my time on 8bit then 16bit computers, leading up to an 8086 pc). I lived in a bedsit and had no outlook or any desire to "get a life". At some point during an acid trip, I found myself alone and spent a long time in introspection about where I was and where I would like to be. Long story short, fast forward 20 years, I'm married with a beautiful daughter, a great senior technical job with a very public FTSE 100 media company, a couple of irons in the fire with personal software projects I'm writing (in fact, I'm actually procrastinating here, I should be coding!) and a generally great life. If I had continued on my "wastrel" route those years ago, my life wouldn't have been as rosy (though perhaps less stressful). I attribute my conversion from waster to nerd entirely to my experiences with LSD. I thoroughly recommend it to others (though I will caution that I have seen downsides in some of my comrades, not deaths you understand, but longer lead-times to achieving their goals). This article (though lacking in specifics) does resonate very strongly with my life experience. Final question (to myself) would I use LSD again? Answer... not sure, I've done a whole lot of living in the last 20 years, not sure I want to reprogram the grey matter at this stage - maybe again in 10 years...
- blankslate 15y agoI've taken enormous (read: irresponsible) quantities of psychotropics over the course of my life: psilocybin in particular, but I've had experiences with everything from pure LSD to exotic molecules without names. The intensity and resonance of those experiences are such that it's sometimes hard to reconcile with the small fraction of the population who have known them. It's an essential part, to me, of the human experience. That said, when I was younger I didn't always treat them with the respect they deserve, and it's difficult to determine in retrospect the effects they've had on my life - in part because I was still not yet fully formed when I began. I don't regret the path I've taken, but in retrospect it seems a fluke that I've arrived where I am with my sanity (arguably) intact; or even that I've arrived at this age at all. To me, these are incredibly powerful tools, with amazing potential for both creation and destruction - but the infrastructure to support their responsible use didn't evolve at a pace to match their sudden explosion into mainstream awareness in the 60's, and the results were terrifying to many; alcohol can be an amazingly destructive drug, but societies have had thousands of years to grow comfortable with its effects, and to learn to mitigate its worst excesses. As a result of this (perhaps rightly deserved) fear and confusion, we've collectively overreacted, not only banning them outright, but elevating their status to one of our most fiercely prosecuted taboos. I sincerely hope that this will change at some point, and that it will coincide with an evolution of the knowledge and wisdom required to use them responsibly. To me it's evident that there are strong positive outcomes to be gained, from personal and artistic growth to effective treatment for psychiatric afflictions - but more than any other substances I know of, these drugs are chameleons that can change form entirely in response to one's approach to them. They rarely reward foolishness or irresponsibility. Now, as ever, cultists are everywhere; I put my trust in science. And I hope that as the stigmas attached to these substances subside, our governments have the sense to entrust the exploration of this potential to scientists.
- blankslate 15y agoThere are probably some people reading these discussions and considering taking an "hallucinogen" for the first time. If you're thinking about it, please, do your homework. Thoroughly. As others have cautioned, drug use can catalyze psychosis, the permanent emergence of bipolar disorder, etc. Consider these risks as they relate to you in particular (your family history, etc) very carefully, and if you decide to go ahead, be sure you prepare with as much care, consideration and thoroughness as it deserves. And if you do, I'd consider avoiding LSD unless you can guarantee its legitimacy and purity. Mescaline is readily producible from common cacti (San Pedro, et al), has a long history of safe use by e.g. native americans §, and will likely provide you with a more helpful experience. It's also much harder to take too much of than e.g. psilocybin or LSD, which are very easy to consume a psychiatrically dangerous dose of. There is a wealth of information out there - some of it spurious, but much of it helpful. I would encourage wider use of psychedelics, but I strongly qualify this encouragement. Not everyone should try them: some people are irreparably damaged by their first trip, and I don't claim to be able to say why; nor will they reward being treated without the utmost respect. That said, after almost a decade of abstinence from tripping, I discovered mescaline, and I intend to continue to use it up to a few times a year. Thus far I've found it to be an extremely rewarding and positive force in my life; I'm an atheist, but you could say it's my replacement for religion. § http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2005/11/69477 http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2005/11/69477 - "Peyote won't rot your brain"
- diamondhead 15y agoGreat example of irresponsibility. As we can see in the other "success" stories written here, many unsuccessful people -exceptions are the role models- tries it to be creative.
- citizenkeys 15y agoOnly thing I'm high on these days is life. To each his own, though. "The goal is being high, not getting high." -Be Here Now, Ram Dass
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- kragen 15y agoWhile I have great respect for many people whose lives have been changed for the better by LSD, I have never taken it. Many of the mind-expanding experiences they report are my daily experience. To quote Salvador Dali: I don't use drugs. I am drugs.
- mattgreenrocks 15y agoThis underscores something that's been running around in my head for awhile. I'm almost certain that I had a previous worldview - one that was highly ordered and rational - was completely wrecked by the aesthetic experience. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, as re-writing your worldview is a scary process. But I found a certain solace in the aesthetics: valuing individual moments more, breaking the spell of materialism, thinking deeply about rather abstract concepts, and not being afraid to embrace mystery when necessary. None of these require the aesthetic experience, they're just by-products of a mind that is being expanded. And they're quite similar to the insights of people on this thread who reported dropping acid.
- GoldenMonkey 15y agoanother view of supposed 'creativity benefits' to engineers: http://www3.sympatico.ca/ian.g.mason/John_Markoff.htm http://www3.sympatico.ca/ian.g.mason/John_Markoff.htm
- obvanon 15y agoAll of you people wondering why people often talk of "seeing God" and other mystical experiences while on LSD, here's the thing: for the most part, those experiences are false However, we tend to associate the parts of our life that are more contemplative with the religious or the supernatural. That is why the _descriptions_ are often religious in nature. That is, however, a limitation of our culture. Because we have traditionally delegated those states of mind to the idea of religions, of Church, of God and so on. LSD will tear you apart and put you back together and you will be better for it. However, even if it was immensely important for me, do not take LSD, even if for this reason alone: it's illegal. I regret my LSD times for that reason alone. I think society is wrong in that regard, but I still like society and I am willing to put up with it being wrong once in a while. If you want to experience the whole mind-bending experience, go study Philosophy. Read the complicated, boring, dreary stuff. Read Kant and formal logic and everything you can put your hands on. Whatever little thing LSD may have done to some people, Philosophy will do to you a thousand fold. It's the harder path, but it will give you skills that you can control at your will, and it will make you better in every area of your life, permanently. Philosophy is the whole book to LSD's Cliff's Notes.
- davidspi 15y agoif you were to read all of these posts, you would find a common theme: we all experience a new level of consciousness when we trip. However, regardless of what this new experience was, or through what method it was achieved, the presence of a new conscious experience proves that their are different types and even levels of consciousness. this epiphany occurred to me through a drug induced change in consciousness. i realized that every material thing in this universe is just a product of my consciousness. this then got me thinking: how is it that material is a product of my consciousness, yet science tells me that my brain (a piece of material) produces consciousness. I flirted with this paradox for months. I concluded that everything in the universe is just a system of interconnected systems of the same energy. I thought of the things in the universe as just different manifestations of a single type of energy at different points in space and time. Then I read about Amit Goswami and learned some very useful scientific jargon for what i was experiencing. Anyone who is interested in "conscioussness" should research this man - he is leading a thought revolution http://www.amitgoswami.org/ http://www.amitgoswami.org/
- kamis 15y agoBefore jumping off any drugs, I have done more than ten years testing in testing in expanding of consciousness including LSD trips as well. Those were really impressive. You can see sound, hear colors, every surface gets alive. But the best ones happened in the countryside. When you understand the way Universe is build, how things work etc. That was wonderful!! The consciousness was expanded... but it was just a bubble. Because when it ended after 12 hours, I understood that I knew all those things, that I had those strange super-senses. But now I have only some flashbacks and cannot explain others how the Universe is built. So my opinion is that life is like climbing the mountain. We all started climbing up. But on our way we found all kind of interesting things - bars, parties, working, career, family, relationships etc. And climbing made some sideways, making our journey up slower. Some even stopped or even rolled down. But everybody still have that knowledge of being on the top of the mountain. It's deep inside. And then we found that weed, mushrooms, lsd, salvia etc. helps us "opening our minds". But it's just like someone grabs you by your hair, pulls up to the top of mountain, shows you what's over there and ... releases his hand. So you just fall down, luckily to the same place where you've taken, if not lower. I got it only after several years of meditation when you do your consciousness expansion step by step. But the "trip" you can get out of that is the one you cannot compare with any drugs trip you have got before. At least it worked for me. So be careful with all those trips as it's very easy to get on the hook because it's much easier to have one cube either than sitting for hours in meditation. But we all have all choices. And it doesn't matter which you choose as it's your choice.
- lhnz 15y agoNot going to read the article, but will say that it produces interesting and uncontrollable cognitive leaps. Your mind is more explorative in its creativity. However, there are massive problems with using it this way: you do not remember very much and cannot think coherently. As for it making everything seem hyper-real and 'true', yes, it also does that but it is false. If you were to remember everything from a trip, the likelihood of most of it being useful or correct is probably pretty low. Lastly, I agree that it is too dangerous -- I don't suffer from psychosis but nevertheless my one experience was not enjoyable. It turned bad; I believe I had a panic attack which I acted upon in the worst possible way. You do not want to experience feelings of failure on LSD. Trust me. My body created physical sensations based on my own thoughts and I lay on a bed shivering... However, I guess it had a profound and positive effect on me. I realised that the experience was not the one that I wanted from life and it made me reflect on who I wanted to be and how I wanted to live. I realised that one of the best things about my mind has always been the clarity of thought that I have in comparison to many people. I refuse to let that go and since then I've actively sought purpose.
- mannicken 15y agoPlease be careful before you go out and drop acid thinking it'll make you a better developer. Psychedelics like that are powerful. And by powerful I mean I've had bad trips where I thought I was being raped, and hallucinated a giant penis staring at my face for eight hours. On the other hand, acid is one of the best drug out there if done right, it unclutters minds.