4 ms·

Generally soil health is measured by a number of things, from the easy to quantify like pH and percentage of organic matter and the availability of certain nutr

by jehb 6y ago

Generally soil health is measured by a number of things, from the easy to quantify like pH and percentage of organic matter and the availability of certain nutrients, or even simple physical measurements like depth, compaction, or water solubility, to more complex things like the makeup of the microbiota living within it. All of these things affect what and how well things can grow on top of it. I'm not a soil scientist, just an amateur gardener, but it's a very complex and interesting area of study.

hinkley 6y ago
This is a chemist's answer. These are all proxies for "is there a healthy soil ecosystem?" Like a letter grade on your report card. Healthy soil has a ridiculously high number of individual microbes and invertebrates. When everything is going properly, soil carbon, pH, friability, gas/water permeability etc etc all work out to something forests like. Feed the soil, not the plant.
- quixoticelixer- 6y ago
  Except that's not quite true, many forest soils are actually quite poor and the trees that grow there would grow much better in other, different soils. e.g many forest soils are much more acidic than ideal for tree growth.
  - hinkley 6y ago
    Fair. There's a tendency in my circles to talk about temperate forests (with fungally dominated soils) as if they're the most important. It's what we see, and it's what most 1st world people who need to hear about environmental policy see, and it's where the most space for improvement exists, both in terms of restoration and carbon sunk per acre. Tropical rainforests are something else entirely. In fungal soil, nutrient availability is a bit fuzzy, because if you're not in a symbiotic relationship with the soil fungi, or root fused to a sibling that is, you have a lot less access to minerals. Some people prefer to think of this as a benevolent relationship, but what's the line between exchange and extortion, especially when you can't ask either party how they feel about it? 'Codependent' might be the correct word. I don't know if he still feels this way, but Paul Stamets has on at least one occasion accused the fungi of farming the forest and not the other way around. If the fungi maintain a situation that is unfavorable to a particular tree, then they are not interested in having that tree around (whether that ultimately proves to be self-inflicted harm is sorted out by natural selection).
    - jberryman 6y ago
      OT: but do you have any favorite books on ecology you can recommend to an interested lay-person?
      - hinkley 6y ago
        I’m not much past 1000 hours myself, which is about when you can string together original thoughts that might be correct. I was always a fan of systems thinking so it’s been sucking me in. The matriarch of the family was the last master gardener as far as I’m aware, but I still have 15 years to match her and I think I might just... except she had a massive apple tree whose match I’ve seen maybe once, and I’ll be dead before any tree I plant is over 18”. Secret Life of Trees, Mycelium Running, and to a lesser extent Gaia’s Garden (by the late, great Toby Hemenway) all have different vignettes about solid ecology that created as many questions as they answered, but lacking a teacher that can be a good thing. I’m slowly filling those gaps in elsewhere.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - pvaldes 6y ago
    This is a result of the war plants and an effect of the biodiversity. Is normal. Very acidic soils are ideal for tree growth, as long as is the correct tree, because the other species can not enter there. So planting "trees" is not enough, you need to known and understand what each tree expects and wants. And letting the trees grow can be detrimental also and the wrong option. None of the options is better than the other. Each case is different. Healing nature is like healing people, just much more slow, much more expensive and much more complex. Must be done by professionals only.
    - quixoticelixer- 6y ago
      Very acidic soils are not ideal for tree growth, yes it does mean that other species can't growth there but that is not the same thing as being ideal for tree growth.
      - pvaldes 6y ago
        As owner of some acidophilous trees I can tell you that many species trive in those soils.
        quixoticelixer- 6y ago
        With soils with a pH of 2.9 and almost no available P?
        pvaldes 6y ago
        Those are very extreme conditions. Not a lot of woody candidates for that. Maybe only the most badass conifers, some Salix and a few Ericaceae.
quixoticelixer- 6y ago
Except that lots of forests have terrible soil with low pH , low carbon, very low nutrient levels and are actually quite difficult for things to grow in.

by jehb 6y ago

hinkley 6y ago

This is a chemist's answer. These are all proxies for "is there a healthy soil ecosystem?" Like a letter grade on your report card. Healthy soil has a ridiculously high number of individual microbes and invertebrates. When everything is going properly, soil carbon, pH, friability, gas/water permeability etc etc all work out to something forests like. Feed the soil, not the plant.

quixoticelixer- 6y ago
Except that's not quite true, many forest soils are actually quite poor and the trees that grow there would grow much better in other, different soils. e.g many forest soils are much more acidic than ideal for tree growth.
- hinkley 6y ago
  Fair. There's a tendency in my circles to talk about temperate forests (with fungally dominated soils) as if they're the most important. It's what we see, and it's what most 1st world people who need to hear about environmental policy see, and it's where the most space for improvement exists, both in terms of restoration and carbon sunk per acre. Tropical rainforests are something else entirely. In fungal soil, nutrient availability is a bit fuzzy, because if you're not in a symbiotic relationship with the soil fungi, or root fused to a sibling that is, you have a lot less access to minerals. Some people prefer to think of this as a benevolent relationship, but what's the line between exchange and extortion, especially when you can't ask either party how they feel about it? 'Codependent' might be the correct word. I don't know if he still feels this way, but Paul Stamets has on at least one occasion accused the fungi of farming the forest and not the other way around. If the fungi maintain a situation that is unfavorable to a particular tree, then they are not interested in having that tree around (whether that ultimately proves to be self-inflicted harm is sorted out by natural selection).
  - jberryman 6y ago
    OT: but do you have any favorite books on ecology you can recommend to an interested lay-person?
    - hinkley 6y ago
      I’m not much past 1000 hours myself, which is about when you can string together original thoughts that might be correct. I was always a fan of systems thinking so it’s been sucking me in. The matriarch of the family was the last master gardener as far as I’m aware, but I still have 15 years to match her and I think I might just... except she had a massive apple tree whose match I’ve seen maybe once, and I’ll be dead before any tree I plant is over 18”. Secret Life of Trees, Mycelium Running, and to a lesser extent Gaia’s Garden (by the late, great Toby Hemenway) all have different vignettes about solid ecology that created as many questions as they answered, but lacking a teacher that can be a good thing. I’m slowly filling those gaps in elsewhere.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- pvaldes 6y ago
  This is a result of the war plants and an effect of the biodiversity. Is normal. Very acidic soils are ideal for tree growth, as long as is the correct tree, because the other species can not enter there. So planting "trees" is not enough, you need to known and understand what each tree expects and wants. And letting the trees grow can be detrimental also and the wrong option. None of the options is better than the other. Each case is different. Healing nature is like healing people, just much more slow, much more expensive and much more complex. Must be done by professionals only.
  - quixoticelixer- 6y ago
    Very acidic soils are not ideal for tree growth, yes it does mean that other species can't growth there but that is not the same thing as being ideal for tree growth.
    - pvaldes 6y ago
      As owner of some acidophilous trees I can tell you that many species trive in those soils.
      - quixoticelixer- 6y ago
        With soils with a pH of 2.9 and almost no available P?
        pvaldes 6y ago
        Those are very extreme conditions. Not a lot of woody candidates for that. Maybe only the most badass conifers, some Salix and a few Ericaceae.

quixoticelixer- 6y ago

Except that lots of forests have terrible soil with low pH , low carbon, very low nutrient levels and are actually quite difficult for things to grow in.