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Apple announces ‘One More Thing’ event for November 10th
- unicornporn 6y agoI'm getting closer and closer to that Linux transition I've been putting off for years.
- mlindner 6y agoBecause Apple is switching to Arm for better performance?
- 1_player 6y ago[benchmarks needed]
- jbverschoor 6y agoLook at the transition dev kit. Also, look at the intel’s iris vs apple’s gpu
- jeffbee 6y agoLook at what from the transition kit? The only thing available show it having single-core performance that would have been state-of-the-art ten years ago. Is there something newer and more impressive?
- neogodless 6y agoShouldn't you compare to Intel Xe for integrated graphics performance?
- jeffbee 6y agoNo, when you're trying to disrespect Intel it's customary to compare announced imaginary parts to obsolete Intel parts.
- mlindner 6y agoThey will come, when the computers are available. But Apple wouldn't invest in doing it at great expensive if it didn't produce a better more competitive product.
- redvenom 6y agoWell, Apple is moving towards increasingly locked down systems. For example, it is very difficult if not impossible to install Linux on the most recent Macbooks. Previously when Apple stopped supporting a Mac, you could install Linux on it. I suspect with the ARM systems going forward, that will become even more difficult. In other words, it is not just about better performance. It is also about Apple removing your freedoms with your own hardware in the name of 'security'. (I am not saying that there isn't increased security, but at what price?)
- jbverschoor 6y agoAt around $25 a month if your laptop lasts for 6 years
- qz2 6y agoI think I got 18 months out of my last two MacBooks before they gave out. Moved to windows desktops now. Much better value propositions, especially now as we don’t have to go out any more! :)
- jbverschoor 6y agoOuch.. I guess I was lucky.
- ownagefool 6y agoI'm on a late 2013 which I've only actually paid for a battery replacement on, so I can anecdote believe you. I'm not in love with macos though and there's more good options nowadays than there was in 2013.
- coldtea 6y agoOr the parent was unlucky - with some faulty production units, and the general case for most people, with hundreds of millions of units sold and the highest customer satisfaction ratings, is not that.
- 6y ago
- Shivetya 6y agobetter performance only if your desired software runs on the new processor. if not then what do you have? I am a light weight user in the Mac world, browsing and some games. However the few games left after the Catalina change to drop 32 bit support are still important to me. One of the publishers has preemptively dropped support for Mac and its near impossible to tell if others will continue support into AS. I know, there is a crowd out there that loves to declare "you should not use your Mac for games" along with "Buy a system for games then". Well let me be blunt, if it cannot serve both purposes then it serves none which means leaving the platform behind. So I look at AS with excitement and trepidation all at the same time with the realization my current Mac may well be my last.
- gumby 6y agoDidn’t Wendker demo a video game running under emulation? That should work fine for your 64 bit games. And it’s not like your old hardware will suddenly stop working. If you want to place PS2 games you need an old PS2, and this is the same. Also, along the line of your old hardware still working: no need to upgrade any time soon.
- yurishimo 6y agoI’m hopeful we’ll see something similar to the move Steam has made for old Pc games. With a little love, devs can usually get an old Windows 95 game running as we’ve seen in the past few years. If the Apple silicon is powerful enough, it might not matter if there is a huge performance hit for the emulation. It’ll be an interesting next 5 years for sure.
- socialdemocrat 6y agoRosetta 2 translates x86 instructions to ARM and cache result. That translation seems quite good given that they demonstrated a complex 3D game running translated code on ARM hardware much weaker than what Apple will deliver in laptops. Honestly I think x86 games will run better on these ARM laptops. Keep in mind x86 on laptops don’t work great. Apple could outperform most of their x86 laptops with a passively cooled ARM tablet. An ARM laptop with active cooling will destroy their x86 lineup. Besides you also get the whole iOS games catalog now which is much larger than the macOS game selection.
- unicornporn 6y ago> Because Apple is switching to Arm for better performance? Because I wont be able to run Windows in Fusion without a very big performance hit.
- chelovek89 6y agoIf you value the attention to aesthetics and UX Apple has you might want to give Pop! OS a try. It's based on Ubuntu.
- acidbaseextract 6y agoCool — one of the major blockers on moving to Linux for me was fractional scaling support. I have 4K monitors but can't use them with tiny text. I like PopOS a lot, but they didn't have fractional scaling support. It looks like they do now as of Oct 5!
- singlow 6y agoI've been using 4k with linux for years. On large desktop screens I don't find fractional scaling to be necessary. The important text in apps that matter like terminals, text editors and browsers, chat clients, etc, has always supported scaling well. The only thing that lacked support were system dialogs and title bars. 2x was fine for those until fractional support came out in gnome recently.
- socialdemocrat 6y agoUbuntu is a pretty good substitute for macOS. My key issue with Linux is the small selection of productivity apps: markdown editors, code editors, drawing packages, password managers like 1Password. Feature rich terminal apps like iTerm2. Well designed Git UI clients like Tower etc. The rest is pretty good. Like the core UI, file manager, virtual desktop management, configuration etc works very well. Much nicer than the Windows mess.
- unicornporn 6y agoI'm already trying out Manjaro XFCE and I'm liking it a lot.
- snazz 6y agoIf anything, Arm MacBooks have a huge advantage over my current (old) ThinkPad—battery life and performance per watt will be significantly better. I haven't read much more about the new virtualization tech that was announced at WWDC, but that's also exciting for running Linux on the Mac. What about Arm Macs pushes you away from the platform?
- andrekandre 6y agonot the op, but for me... 1. the big sur ui is not very attractive (i know it sounds arbitrary, but big sur just looks very non-desktop, very fischer price, and i have no alterantive since catalina wont be supported) 2. virtualization for x86_64 apps, that wont last forever, and at some point those x86 binaries wont work anymore (i already lost a ton of apps with catalina...) 3. for my work i already need vmware alot, and the idea of running even half-speed at best is a non-starter -- that being said, as a consummer oriented device, or an iphone/ipad app developer machine i think its defintely going to do well
- claudeganon 6y agoAlso, Apple services in Big Sur circumventing VPNs and Little Snitch is a complete nonstarter for me. I’m staying on Catalina with an Intel Mac for the foreseeable future.
- ricketycricket 6y agoVMWare won't run x86 Windows or Linux at all, much less at half speed: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/about_the_rosetta_translation_environment https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/abou...
- coldtea 6y ago>1. the big sur ui is not very attractive (i know it sounds arbitrary, but big sur just looks very non-desktop, very fischer price, and i have no alterantive since catalina wont be supported) I find these "this look fischer price/non-desktop" like hearing goth teenagers wanting something darker and more edgy -- well, the "pro" mentality equivalent, where if it doesn't look boring and beize it's not good. It's a mighty fine look, nothing fischer prize about it, and hardly that different from the previous iteration. If anything it much less fischer prize than the original Aqua interface and its 4-5 next iterations, which was praised as a great looking ("lickable") UI.
- na85 6y agoMoving from Intel to ARM is a reason to stay with Mac if you ask me. Intel has been holding computing back with their inefficient architecture, and anything that drives innovation away from x86 is a good thing in my mind. Much as I dislike some of Apple's practices I think making ARM more mainstream is a trend I want to see continue.
- jbverschoor 6y agoExactly, and maybe arm clouds will be more popular
- api 6y agoNo idea why this is being downvoted. Does anyone here like the X86 ISA? Sure its been made fast, but that's been quite an uphill battle against things like its complex instruction decoders and limited decoder parallelism. If the same engineering had been put into making ARM fast, ARM would be far faster than X86 is today.
- userbinator 6y agoThe fact is that x86 has 4 decades of backwards compatibility which along with the PC architecture means a reasonably open and documented platform. Every ARM system is different and they are all lacking the heritage of public documentation that the PC has. In other words, it's not about performance but freedom. I doubt Apple will ever release as much detailed information on its own chips as Intel and AMD have. x86 is plenty fast anyway, and still wins on code density in single-threaded scalar (i.e. NOT using the vector units) branchy code of the sort commonly found in average applications.
- klelatti 6y agoGenuine question - what is lacking in Arm documentation that Intel provides?
- gumby 6y agoEssentially all the supposedly merchant SoCs are proprietary. Instead of shipping data sheets, winbond or mediatek want to ship you a reference design with reference linux or android build that only works because of a huge binary blob. There’s a small hardware consulting company in Palo Alto whose main differentiator is that they have a bunch of folks in China who manage to generate docs they can use. I’m guessing this involves a lot of under the table leaks and late night alcohol-fueled discussions.
- coolspot 6y agoSpeaking from experience, just do not try any fringe distro. Pick one of the top 3 popular ones - they are much better in little things that you will appreciate.
- klodolph 6y agoIt’s good advice but I’m not sure how you count “top 3 popular distros” these days. A lot of people into Linux seem to go through a phase where they try out a rolling release distro like Arch or Gentoo, and then after a couple years get sick of dealing with broken systems & switch to something more stable like Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora/Mint/etc. As I get older, the amount of system administration and customization of my system that I want to do is dropping rapidly. I barely even change the desktop wallpaper any more.
- coolspot 6y agoCommunity size is good approximation and that is what drives features and your ability to find solution to a problem quckly. I would say top desktop distros (from most popular to least) are: Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, Mint. Anything outside of this list is for tinkers who are not easily frustrated with issues.
- klodolph 6y agoYes, and I’d say more than that—tinkers who are specifically interested in tinkering with Linux desktop administration. I’ll do a ridiculous amount of work on some hobby project, but if a system update breaks my WiFi adapter, then I’m tinkering around and facing frustrating issues with WiFi drivers, which sucks, when I really want to be tinkering around and facing frustrating issues with my hobby project, which is awesome. It’s like: https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/asfgcj/bad_screen/ https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/asfgcj/bad_screen... Same reason I switched to AMD GPUs. Getting the Nvidia cards working on Linux is just a distraction from whatever I really want to do.
- john_alan 6y agoYeah. I’m a long time Mac user. Like 17 years, I’m keen on it because UNIX and pretty. I was looking at Arch + KDE plasma and it’s really tempting. I returned a 16inch MBP recently as it kept crashing on shutdown. macOS on intel is a mess and so is the T2. And I’m a fanboy. I’ve made a deal with myself. If these new Apple Si machines are blow away I’ll try again. Else I’m buying a Lenovo Legion and moving to Arch. Not sure what to do for a phone but probably stay with iOS.
- eecc 6y agoI'm currently waiting (and cursing) Lenovo for delaying delivery of the AMD T14 I paid for in September. I'm a bit worried for my precious free time that will be wasted on fending off the thousand-cuts onslaught of bugs, but I'm willing to try. It's gotten to this Tim (and Jony). After ~15 uninterrupted years.
- coldtea 6y ago>I returned a 16inch MBP recently as it kept crashing on shutdown. macOS on intel is a mess and so is the T2. And I’m a fanboy. macOS on Intel is a mess because a particular 16inch MBP "kept crashing on shutdown"? As if Windows and Linux running machines don't have cases where they keep running on shutdown? macOS/T2 has bugs like all software, but this is not some general state of macOS/T2, which runs fine without "crashing on shutdown" for hundreds of millions of other people (including those with MBP16). How about it's some particular production run / unit, and or some particular app? (Which can happen for any vendor / OS)
- coldtea 6y agoDon't let the door hit you on your way out...
- Austin_Conlon 6y agoWill 2021 be the year of desktop ARM?
- klelatti 6y agoCould be. Pi and Mac announcements on the same day!
- sys_64738 6y agoI couldn't transition to a Linux laptop as I don't think it has optimal battery life nor does the trackpad feel as Mac-like as I need it to be. But I could see ARM Mac laptops being used by a lot of people for connecting to real systems that are still x86. In other words, the Mac laptop is a browser machine or a display to a real work VM. I think ARM is the nail in the coffin of the non-laptop Mac brand though.
- john_alan 6y agoWhy you don’t think arm can function on iMac scale? https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/02/apple-smaller-mac-pro-apple-silicon/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/02/apple-smaller-mac-pro-a...
- socialdemocrat 6y agoYou say that because you think ARM gives toy performance when everything actually points to Apple Silicon will be a performance beast. It may not beat the big x86 gaming rigs but I am quite confident that the highest performance laptops of any kind in the next few year will all be ARM based. iMac and Mac Mini are also small enclosures which will benefit from ARM performance wise. All that matters is really watt per performance and dollars relative to performance and there ARM already beats intel. To beat an x86 intel is just a matter of throwing in enough cores. AMD will be harder as their performance relative to cost is better than ARM and intel. But there is nothing special about beating intel at this point.
- midrus 6y agoI already did. Couldn't be happier.
- jp57 6y agoThe event is called "One More Thing". They are applying the same counting they used their AppleOne subscription bundles, there will be three new products announced at the event.
- phendrenad2 6y agoThis is the company equivalent of a remake of an 80s movie repeating the one iconic quote 3 times in the trailer.
- LIV2 6y agoOur most advanced <thing> yet!
- mcphage 6y agoI had thought so, too—but the article claims that Apple last used it in 2017... I think that's scarce enough that it doesn't qualify as 'overuse'.
- cknoxrun 6y agoI think it's become a tradition at the company, part of the culture that people can rally around for big releases. Not a bad thing I don't think!
- pwinnski 6y agoThat you associate "one more thing" with Apple speaks to the phrase's recognition power, not its frequency of use: it's been three years since Apple last used it.
- phendrenad2 6y agoWow, you're right. They save it for big occasions it seems. I take back my snarky joke heh
- marwan-nwh 6y agoIs that how news works these days? they didn't say anything about chips.
- snazz 6y agoIn June, they promised that the first Apple Silicon Mac would be released by the end of the year. It's unlikely that they will have a fourth fall/winter event.
- bnj 6y agoIt’s definitely unlikely but as someone who’s often guilty of only reading the headlines I’m uncomfortable with it presenting something as fact like this. This event really has to be about the Apple silicon machines— but that’s not what was announced and the headline shouldn’t say it was.
- coldtea 6y ago>It’s definitely unlikely but as someone who’s often guilty of only reading the headlines I’m uncomfortable with it presenting something as fact like this. If only actual serious political newssites "facts" were as solid as this "mere" prediction that the event will be about Apple Silicon.
- tomekw 6y agoI hope they just release a refreshed Mac Mini!
- coolspot 6y agoThey likely will. The dev kit for arm mac is mac mini.
- xt00 6y agoThe various angles in that image reminded me of the silicon cutting planes... I wonder if they were trying to message that..
- jbverschoor 6y agoPlease let there be a 14” formfactor
- _ph_ 6y agoConsidering that they moved from 15" to 16" by reducing the bezels, moving the smaller laptops to 14" would be the logical conclusion. Screen estate is precious, especially in the smaller machines. I would be totally in for a 14" AS Mac :)
- klelatti 6y agoThe focus is on the move to ARM ISA but just as interesting will be what Apple manages to do with the rest of the silicon - bringing its gpu and neural engine to the laptop / desktop.
- socialdemocrat 6y agoExactly a tightly integrated SoC could revolutionize high performance at low price points, giving low end MacBooks performance that may rival far more expensive PC laptops.
- joakleaf 6y agoAfter the introduction of the Intel iMac at MacWorld Expo 2006, the Intel MacBook Pro was the "one more thing". https://www.macworld.com/article/1048842/livekeynote.html https://www.macworld.com/article/1048842/livekeynote.html https://www.wired.com/2006/01/one-more-thing-/ https://www.wired.com/2006/01/one-more-thing-/
- mortenjorck 6y agoPerhaps the most eyebrow-raising part of the WWDC ARM transition announcement was the promise that Apple Silicon Macs would be able to run iOS software. People mostly seem to have just accepted it at face value, perhaps with the idea that "oh, there will be a touchscreen MacBook," but this doesn't really capture the breadth of what this will entail. Apple has, of course, famously resisted the hybrid/convertible form factor, a decision largely proven right by Microsoft's advance into and subsequent retreat from a universal touch-and-pointer UI in Windows 8. The addition of trackpad support to iPadOS this year was an interesting hybrid-like evolution of Apple's tablet UI, but something as complex as MacOS is going to be a lot harder to take in the other direction without turning into Windows 8. Whatever Apple's solution is to avoid making the Mac into a "fridge-toaster" will be unveiled alongside the new hardware, and I'm quite curious what it will be.
- post_break 6y agoApple said stylus's were dumb and no one would want one. Apple Pencil comes out. Touch screen Macbook pro seems like it would never happen, then Big Sur looks like it has touch targets made for fingers. The iPad keyboard dock thing looks very much like microsoft surface, especially the logitech offerings that you know where designed in part of help with Apple. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a Macbook Pro that either swivels all the way around like a Lenovo and has a touch screen.
- socialdemocrat 6y agoI think the key point Steve Jobs was making is that you don’t want a stylus as a requirement for interacting with the OS. As someone who used Palm OS, I totally get what he was talking about when iOS was released. A stylus for general interaction was not a good choice. However for drawing and writing a stylus is very nice. But that is a much smaller user segment than those benefitting from a touch interface.
- phoobahr 6y agoAnd, at that time, a mandatory stylus meant (likely) a resistive not capacitive touch screen.
- binarynate 6y agoI won't be able to move from Intel to ARM for the foreseeable future because I rely on Bootcamp / Parallels for Windows development, but it will still be interesting to see the new hardware. Big Sur's UI is obviously designed for touch, so I will be shocked if they don't release a touch screen Mac or a tablet that runs macOS. Now that they've worked out how to ship touchscreen Macs, hopefully that means they'll finally offer MacBook Pros without touchbars.
- glhaynes 6y agoWe'll see of course, but I don't personally find it obvious at all that Big Sur is designed for touch. Or, if so, it's only an incidental byproduct of them applying a consistent style between iOS-iPadOS-macOS as they make it easier to make apps that run across all those platforms. I'll be surprised if macOS hardware gets touch versus iPadOS just growing into more and more of macOS's current roles.
- mrweasel 6y agoThat raises an interesting point: Is it the existence of the iPad Pro that prevents Apple from moving forward on touch screen laptops. Introducing a touch screen MacBook could completely kill the iPad Pro and I'm not sure that Apple want to lose that market. Still it could be that they still firmly believe that touch screen on laptops are unnecessary and provides a poor user experience, something that I happen to believe that they would be right in.
- mrweasel 6y agoThe library of available software will certainly be interesting. I can easily move to ARM, assuming Python, Bash and SSH works, but it would be easier, if I can expect AMD64 emulation/virtualisation in conjuction with Docker. Being able to run ARM based Docker images currently isn’t that useful. While I would love to see the touchbar go away, I don’t see any use case from a touch screen on laptops, in my line of work. It’s just as much a gimmick as the touchbar, in my case. If they do introduce it, I would hope it’s optional, like the touchbar should be.
- dblooman 6y agoThe 16inch MBP has replaced pretty much every laptop at work this year. I know we were holding off because nobody wanted the old keyboard. These will last 3+ years, so Apple have some time to screw around and get software updated while companies stick with old hardware. I hope they announce when they will stop making intel MBPs, as that is the real date when Apple silicon becomes real for most people.
- biztos 6y agoHave people at your work generally been happy with the 16" MBPs? I had one, top of the line, and I hated it -- it ran crazy hot all the time even when I wasn't doing much of anything. Connected to an external monitor, it would fan up just from surfing ordinary sites with Safari. From lots of googling around it seemed that many, many people had this problem. I was actually quite thrilled when I was able to send it back to HQ, and am now back to loving my 2014 13" MBP. Having dealt with those thermal engineering problems, I am both very hopeful for Apple Silicon, and very wary of buying newest-release Macs.
- raihansaputra 6y agoI have the i7 and it works well without too much heat/fan noise, even when connected to a 4k monitor. On my team the chatter was the i9 is known to have heat problems.
- spike021 6y agoI would personally love a new Silicon Mac Mini. I don't need a crazy desktop computer at this point but I already have a 34-inch ultrawide 4K monitor. I'm even willing to try the new system architecture as a computer. Clearly Apple has considered this at least for the initial developer model. So I'd love if they decide to also put out a consumer one with the final Silicon SOC.
- dang 6y agoThis is an announcement of an announcement. Those are off topic. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22announcement%20of%20an%20announcement%22 https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... It's in companies' (and the websites' who write about them) interest to make it to the trough as many times as possible, but our interest is to wait until there's something new to discuss. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22no%20harm%20in%20waiting%22%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
- _ph_ 6y agoActually, it is the announcement of an event, many of the HN readers might want to follow. So posting a link that informs about the event seems not to be off-topic to me. I wouldn't want to miss the event so I am happy the link appeared here on HN.
- JohnDeHope 6y agoI’d love a tagging system a la steam game tags where announce-of-announcement was a tag with a community of interested and engaged people who were vetting and tagging and hashing out what it means to be an announcement of an announcement. And then also there could be another community of similarly minded announcement-of-event people, likely with a bit of Venn diagram overlap, operating independently. And so on and so forth.
- jzymbaluk 6y agoOr just ignore posts that don't interest you, it's way easier
- snazz 6y agoLike the lobste.rs tagging system? I'm not sure how popular that would be here, but it might be cool.
- tptacek 6y agoIt's not going to happen. Not "fragmenting" the community, but rather keeping everyone in the same "silo" of topics, is kind of core to the identity of the site. If you want tags, that's a thing Lobste.rs is good at.
- gumby 6y agoI’m hoping for more iOS component integration. Specifically things like a better camera + IR to do face recognition. Smaller and lighter devices. Maybe even better waterproofing — doesn’t matter to me but the kids are more careless.
- kristianp 6y agoThe way the white and blue light comes out of the bite in the apple logo, it's reminiscent of a projector. Apple movies?