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That's what makes it appealing to a lot of people who have been living around millions of other people. Soon many of these places will no longer be cheap and fa

That's what makes it appealing to a lot of people who have been living around millions of other people. Soon many of these places will no longer be cheap and far away from other people. It'll be interesting to see how today's cultural conflicts play out when the more left-leaning, urban remote workers move en masse to smaller, more right-leaning, less urban places.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
It's not about left right. It's about rural vs urban and have money vs not. Everything that's terrible and soul crushing about a tourism economy is about to happen to random places that have thus far been spared that fate.
- silicon2401 6y ago
  You can't reduce things to one dimension, I agree, but I disagree that left vs right is unimportant. When largely liberal city people migrate into largely conservative places, there's gonna be some conflict. Not to mention a lot of these tech workers are liberal and have money, so they'll be empowered to support changes that the locals may not be on board with but also may not have the means to combat effectively.
  - kjs3 6y ago
    I agree with your first two sentences, then I think you loose your way. SFO is a 'liberal' city, but the idea the tech people are majority liberal as well needs a strong does of supporting evidence. My own observation is that much like the rest of the rest of the populace, it's a spectrum. I have talked to many SFO folks looking to move out of there specifically because they want to be somewhere 'conservative', usually using more colorful language. And I also have some doubts about the whole 'techies are going to come here and take over' trope. Sure, they will influence things (money always does), but entrenched political and social structures don't just melt away overnight. They know the rules of the game because they made them. I live in a pretty lefty area that's also pretty desirable to live in, and periodically you'll get an influx of individuals from other places that make noise about some aspect of the area that isn't conservative enough for them (taxation, commonly) and how they're going to change things. And the incumbent political actors spin up and work the system and it usually goes nowhere. I suspect you'll see much more of that than radical changes brought on by the arrival of tech money.
    - p1necone 6y ago
      You only have to look at any slightly politically charged topic on HN to see that there are plenty of far far right wingers in tech. Edit: see I'm even being downvoted by them now :D
      - nomdep 6y ago
        Many techies are individualistic. That used to be considered left-leaning, but in the last years some people have been pushing the idea that is something from the right, instead. We didn't cross the border, the border crossed us.
        adamsea 6y ago
        Do these individualistic people wear masks or is that to collectivist? That’s the dealbreaker question for me right now. Point being, even individualists are part of a community.
        nomdep 6y ago
        Obviuosly. No one is an island. I should have said "individualistic-leaning".
        adamsea 6y ago
        Appreciate the response. Sadly not obvious to all these days : (.
- throw0101a 6y ago
  > It's not about left right. It's about rural vs urban and have money vs not. There's a high correlation between population and political in the US: > There's a decisive break between Democratic and Republican support at a population density of 800 persons/per square mile. * https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-04-01/how-the-density-of-your-county-affects-how-you-vote https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-04-01/how-the-d... See also Canada: * https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/338canada-the-urban-rural-divide-right-along-party-lines/ https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/338canada-the-urban-... Also, in recent years/decades there has been high correlation between education levels and political leanings. Piketty, in his most recent book Capital and Ideology, made an interesting observation: up until the 1980s blue collar works tended to vote for more-Left parties and white collar (more educated?) workers for more-Right parties. Then in the the 1980s and 1990s it swapped to the point that the more educated you are the more Left-ish you are likely to vote. And this phenomenon is true in basically all Western countries.
tolbish 6y ago
The biggest trick the media has played on the working class is framing everything in a "right vs left" lens. There does not seem to be any resistance to this indoctrination.
floor2 6y ago
One thing worth remembering - thousands of current "Bay area tech workers" grew up in other parts of the country, and moved to silicon valley primarily for job opportunities, but may not otherwise share in the religious, political or social views that dominate that space. So while in some cases there may be the conflict you're alluding to, for other people, they're just moving back home.
- asdff 6y ago
  That's precisely the math that people are weighing. Live in comparative squalor in the bay or nyc in your cramped apartment with no grass and no light and little opportunity for change as time goes by and your family potentially grows, or move back home and live like an absolute king in a legitimate mansion with yards on all sides with a three car garage, basketball hoop, and a pool in that rich rich neighborhood with better schools than SF. It's like giving yourself a massive raise.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Don't you see that this is the kind of framing that rubs people the wrong way? There's nothing wrong with having different preferences, but it's frustrating for Bay Area natives to constantly hear that it's a terrible place nobody could enjoy on its own terms.
    - Rebelgecko 6y ago
      Ironically, people in "flyover country" have been hearing the same sorts of disses for decades
      - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
        Absolutely, and I won't pretend that's something I've never been guilty of. But it's a very toxic habit and we need to do our best to fight against it.
      - dismalpedigree 6y ago
monoideism 6y ago
The dispersal of bay area tech workers will be good for the country, if we can avoid breaking down in the immediate future. SV had become a total thought bubble, with the average tech worker having either no conception or a very negative conception of how most of the country lives outside of the large urban areas. Moving into areas with lots of moderates or conservatives will be a good learning experience. I don't expect people to change their ideology, but I do expect much more tolerance from them than what I've seen in recent years.
- tayo42 6y ago
  I grew up in an area with conservatives. I remember the slurs I was called quite clearly. I don't need to go back to that experience. Give me a break with a comment like this.
- ryanobjc 6y ago
  Nearly all my colleagues and friends here in the Bay Area are from somewhere else. So this idea of a totally isolated bubble is a fiction made up on few facts to sell a story. And most people are fairly tolerant - except of the intolerable few who wish to destroy tolerance. Again more made up stories.
  - refurb 6y ago
    It's a pretty massive thought bubble, at least for the professional class. It has a massive number of highly paid, white, left-leaning people. Opinions outside of that bubble are met with "I didn't know people like you existed!". If that's not a bubble, I don't know what is.
    - sagarm 6y ago
      The Bay area and tech is not predominantly white. While hispanics and black people are underrepresented, Asians (both south and east) are dramatically overrepresented. In addition, Bay area people are from all over the country and from diverse backgrounds. In contrast, rural communities tend to be highly homogeneous both in terms of race and life experience.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

It's not about left right. It's about rural vs urban and have money vs not. Everything that's terrible and soul crushing about a tourism economy is about to happen to random places that have thus far been spared that fate.

silicon2401 6y ago
You can't reduce things to one dimension, I agree, but I disagree that left vs right is unimportant. When largely liberal city people migrate into largely conservative places, there's gonna be some conflict. Not to mention a lot of these tech workers are liberal and have money, so they'll be empowered to support changes that the locals may not be on board with but also may not have the means to combat effectively.
- kjs3 6y ago
  I agree with your first two sentences, then I think you loose your way. SFO is a 'liberal' city, but the idea the tech people are majority liberal as well needs a strong does of supporting evidence. My own observation is that much like the rest of the rest of the populace, it's a spectrum. I have talked to many SFO folks looking to move out of there specifically because they want to be somewhere 'conservative', usually using more colorful language. And I also have some doubts about the whole 'techies are going to come here and take over' trope. Sure, they will influence things (money always does), but entrenched political and social structures don't just melt away overnight. They know the rules of the game because they made them. I live in a pretty lefty area that's also pretty desirable to live in, and periodically you'll get an influx of individuals from other places that make noise about some aspect of the area that isn't conservative enough for them (taxation, commonly) and how they're going to change things. And the incumbent political actors spin up and work the system and it usually goes nowhere. I suspect you'll see much more of that than radical changes brought on by the arrival of tech money.
  - p1necone 6y ago
    You only have to look at any slightly politically charged topic on HN to see that there are plenty of far far right wingers in tech. Edit: see I'm even being downvoted by them now :D
    - nomdep 6y ago
      Many techies are individualistic. That used to be considered left-leaning, but in the last years some people have been pushing the idea that is something from the right, instead. We didn't cross the border, the border crossed us.
      - adamsea 6y ago
        Do these individualistic people wear masks or is that to collectivist? That’s the dealbreaker question for me right now. Point being, even individualists are part of a community.
        nomdep 6y ago
        Obviuosly. No one is an island. I should have said "individualistic-leaning".
        adamsea 6y ago
        Appreciate the response. Sadly not obvious to all these days : (.
throw0101a 6y ago
> It's not about left right. It's about rural vs urban and have money vs not. There's a high correlation between population and political in the US: > There's a decisive break between Democratic and Republican support at a population density of 800 persons/per square mile. * https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-04-01/how-the-density-of-your-county-affects-how-you-vote https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-04-01/how-the-d... See also Canada: * https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/338canada-the-urban-rural-divide-right-along-party-lines/ https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/338canada-the-urban-... Also, in recent years/decades there has been high correlation between education levels and political leanings. Piketty, in his most recent book Capital and Ideology, made an interesting observation: up until the 1980s blue collar works tended to vote for more-Left parties and white collar (more educated?) workers for more-Right parties. Then in the the 1980s and 1990s it swapped to the point that the more educated you are the more Left-ish you are likely to vote. And this phenomenon is true in basically all Western countries.

tolbish 6y ago

The biggest trick the media has played on the working class is framing everything in a "right vs left" lens. There does not seem to be any resistance to this indoctrination.

floor2 6y ago

One thing worth remembering - thousands of current "Bay area tech workers" grew up in other parts of the country, and moved to silicon valley primarily for job opportunities, but may not otherwise share in the religious, political or social views that dominate that space. So while in some cases there may be the conflict you're alluding to, for other people, they're just moving back home.

asdff 6y ago
That's precisely the math that people are weighing. Live in comparative squalor in the bay or nyc in your cramped apartment with no grass and no light and little opportunity for change as time goes by and your family potentially grows, or move back home and live like an absolute king in a legitimate mansion with yards on all sides with a three car garage, basketball hoop, and a pool in that rich rich neighborhood with better schools than SF. It's like giving yourself a massive raise.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Don't you see that this is the kind of framing that rubs people the wrong way? There's nothing wrong with having different preferences, but it's frustrating for Bay Area natives to constantly hear that it's a terrible place nobody could enjoy on its own terms.
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    Ironically, people in "flyover country" have been hearing the same sorts of disses for decades
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      Absolutely, and I won't pretend that's something I've never been guilty of. But it's a very toxic habit and we need to do our best to fight against it.
    - dismalpedigree 6y ago

monoideism 6y ago

The dispersal of bay area tech workers will be good for the country, if we can avoid breaking down in the immediate future. SV had become a total thought bubble, with the average tech worker having either no conception or a very negative conception of how most of the country lives outside of the large urban areas. Moving into areas with lots of moderates or conservatives will be a good learning experience. I don't expect people to change their ideology, but I do expect much more tolerance from them than what I've seen in recent years.

tayo42 6y ago
I grew up in an area with conservatives. I remember the slurs I was called quite clearly. I don't need to go back to that experience. Give me a break with a comment like this.
ryanobjc 6y ago
Nearly all my colleagues and friends here in the Bay Area are from somewhere else. So this idea of a totally isolated bubble is a fiction made up on few facts to sell a story. And most people are fairly tolerant - except of the intolerable few who wish to destroy tolerance. Again more made up stories.
- refurb 6y ago
  It's a pretty massive thought bubble, at least for the professional class. It has a massive number of highly paid, white, left-leaning people. Opinions outside of that bubble are met with "I didn't know people like you existed!". If that's not a bubble, I don't know what is.
  - sagarm 6y ago
    The Bay area and tech is not predominantly white. While hispanics and black people are underrepresented, Asians (both south and east) are dramatically overrepresented. In addition, Bay area people are from all over the country and from diverse backgrounds. In contrast, rural communities tend to be highly homogeneous both in terms of race and life experience.