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His conclusion is that this style of paranoia belongs to "the dispossessed" rather than to one political faction. Or at least to those who feel dispossessed.
by leftyted 6y ago
His conclusion is that this style of paranoia belongs to "the dispossessed" rather than to one political faction. Or at least to those who feel dispossessed.
Another data point for that thesis: Arabs are very into what we would call conspiracy theories. A decade ago there were all these polls showing fairly broad approval among Arabs for Osama Bin Laden. That makes sense when you consider other polls showing that most Arabs didn't think Bin Laden was involved in 9/11 [0].
Personally I have a soft spot for conspiracy theorists. At least Alex Jones is thinking for himself. Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi are on HN a lot and I feel similarly about them -- which is not to say I put them in the same category as Jones. I think they get some stuff right, I appreciate their fire-and-brimstone approach (at least it's fun to read), but both of them frequently write sentences that cause my eyes to roll back in my head.
I think the ultimate source of conspiratorial thinking is linked to reductio ad absurdum. In our minds, we seem drawn to the extremes. Everything reminds everyone of Hitler, Stalin, Maoist struggle sessions, and so on. Trump is a vile white-supremacist-fascist. Biden is kowtowing to critical-theory-reading neo-Marxists. Reducing an argument to the absurd makes sense in logic and math but perhaps not in the real world where there's no guarantee that an argument is based on anything logical.
Or maybe it makes sense in the real world too. It seems to me, sometimes, that conspiracy theorists are actually fairly good at identifying the ultimate goal of an ideology. But ultimate goals are ideals, they're never realized and, in practice, they provide a direction rather than a destination. It's one thing to identify the ultimate goal of the ideology animating leftists but are you so sure our society shouldn't be a little more left-wing? Because, in practice, that's what electing the left-wing candidate is likely to accomplish. It's unlikely to recreate The Cultural Revolution.
On the other hand, maybe the fact that such ultimate goals came astonishingly close to being realized, on the right and left, in the 20th century, is a good reason to be alarmed.
[0] - https://newrepublic.com/article/94546/middle-east-radical-conspiracy-theories https://newrepublic.com/article/94546/middle-east-radical-co...
- roywiggins 6y ago> At least Alex Jones is thinking for himself Conspiracy theories are fun and all until stuff like this happens: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/this-sandy-hook-father-lives-in-hiding-because-of-conspiracy-theories-fueled-by-alex-jones/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/this-sandy-hook-f... And the then claimed that actually, he was literally psychotic when he was saying that stuff and blamed "mass group think": https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/30/us/alex-jones-psychosis-sandy-hook/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/30/us/alex-jones-psychosis-sandy...
- mistermann 6y ago> Conspiracy theories are fun and all until stuff like this happens: A refusal to consider conspiracy theories is also all fun and all until stuff like this happens: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War#Casualty_estimates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War#Casualty_estimates (Death estimates range from 150,000 to 1,000,000). > And the then claimed that actually, he was literally psychotic when he was saying that stuff and blamed "mass group think" Did anyone responsible for the war have to atone for their error? I happen to think total body count is a perfectly reasonable metric (one of many) for evaluating the risks inherent in various styles of thinking (or not thinking, as the case may be) - I'm curious if you agree or disagree?
- sudosysgen 6y agoWell, this is literally true. I don't know if people don't want to remember, but people saying that there was no evidence of WMD and that the Iraq War shouldn't happen was a conspiracy theory have, in a very real sense, blood on their hands. "Conspiracy theory" is a category with a high false positive ratio. It's better for all of us to at least entertain them and give them a fair shot before dismissing them.
- roywiggins 6y agoUnfortunately, that's susceptible to a sort of Pascal's mugging. People can come up with new conspiracy theories faster than you can give them a fair shot, because they're very easy to generate.
- sudosysgen 6y agoWhile that's true, there are many more debunkers than credible conspiracy theorists. As long as they can maintain their reputation and that no one is too dismissive, and as long as a sufficient amount of actual conspiracies are defeated, I don't think it would be too much of a problem.
- mistermann 6y ago
- platz 6y agoWhat is an example of an eye-rolling claim from Taibbi?