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I wish people were taught in school about the various manipulation techniques that are being used against them. Unfortunately that would mean currently both sid

I wish people were taught in school about the various manipulation techniques that are being used against them. Unfortunately that would mean currently both sides would not be voteable, but that should in the long run make democracy healthier. Currently democracy is legal, because if you have enough money you can easily manipulate people into anything, and if you can print money they your power is unrestricted. I believe that whoever wins, there will be a minor difference to day to day life, except that one side will have this group oppressed and the other side another, whoever wins. If you use divide and conquer, you need to follow up with the work against imaginary threats to be seen as trustworthy.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
State committees, bureaucracies and advisory boards (it varies by state) that set school curriculum are ultimately accountable to politicians. They will never include strong education against indoctrination or how to balance a budget because that would be biting the hand that feeds them. Look at the incentives and the outcome is obvious. Nobody wants to do things that might draw the ire of their boss's boss's boss.
- spamizbad 6y ago
  They won’t do that because governments do not, in fact, need balanced budgets.
- nine_k 6y ago
  While bureaucracies are formally under politicians' control, politicians are elected, and bureaucrats are not. They easily outlast politicians, and definitely set their own conditions for politicians to follow if they don't want their orders obstructed and sabotaged. I would hazard to say that it's in the bureaucrats' best interest to have politicians unpleasant and unqualified, of the "both worse" kind. Interestingly, quite often election candidates tend to resemble this description, at least if their opposition is to be believed.
smt88 6y ago
This "both sides are the same" narrative is utter nonsense. If one side wins, handling of Coronavirus will be based on science and medical advice. Relief bills will be passed, allowing people to pay rent. Thousands more will live. That will make a huge difference in daily life. The last time Democrats had any real power, they gave health care to people with pre-existing conditions. That has changed my life and the lives of millions of other people. Maybe your daily life would be the same either way. Don't try to generalize that to the rest of us.
- username90 6y ago
  Biden is the guy closest to Trump that the Democrats could find. Do you disagree? Democrats didn't solve any core issues in USA the last times they were elected and Biden has promised to not solve any either. Corona is a very small issue in the long run after all, USA's very short expected lifespan compared to countries with similar wealth kills way more people every single year and nobody has a solution. Instead they squabble over minor things when millions of preventable deaths happens every single year. I'd argue that any candidate who doesn't acknowledge the issue and aims to fix it is not a valid candidate. Obama at least tried even though his solution failed.
  - boboboboboboo 6y ago
    There are very important differences between Biden and Trump. Why do you think there aren’t?
    - me_me_me 6y ago
      > There are very important differences between Biden and Trump There is one I can see right away Biden is not gloating about his family side hustles. They are both turds, sides of same coin, and both are evidence that current system is broken. If you are given choice between two thieves and you are arguing that one stole less in the past so its better choice, then you don't see the irony of your 'free choice'. Sure voting biden is clearly better outcome but the system is intact.
blhack 6y ago
In my nieces school (public school in Phoenix) they had to watch “the social dilemma” and write about it. I was trying to explain to her how tik tok, Instagram etc. will try to influence her thinking, and she was basically like “Uncle Ryan yes I know. It’s an algorithm that wants to make you mad. We learned about it in school.” I was proud.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  It still does work if you know about it and still use the service.
  - smt88 6y ago
    People should be free to allow themselves to be enraged by an algorithm if they want to, just as they should be free to drink alcohol. My problems with social media are that they aren't transparent about the rage-inducing nature of their algorithms and that they are monopolies. Those of us who want to opt out of the rage are also forced to opt out of our online friends and families.
mrkramer 6y ago
No school can protect you against social engineering except if you study psychology then you can recognize threats and try to dodge them.
- hedora 6y ago
  Going to catholic high school did a good job of teaching this. However, it was an atypical catholic school. It that taught the dark ages honestly: “We let the Catholic Church run Europe for a few hundred years... It turns out that’s a terrible idea”. They also had a few months of “how to avoid cults” in religion class, and a separate, well-done world religions semester. They had a Spanish language “if you want justice fight for peace” poster up (the officially sanctioned Catholic US translation is “work for peace”) and covered multiple instances of the Catholic church working to overthrow corrupt dictatorships, and also covered the abuses of global captialism in a semester on social justice. That was all mandatory. I also remember a talk a holocaust survivor gave proudly proclaiming that the Catholics in Germany overwhelmingly voted against the Nazis. Don’t get me wrong; even that school was offensively conservative in many ways, just as the rest of the church is. I think the obvious cognitive dissonance mostly just helped most students develop their BS detectors. It’s been shocking to hear which right wingers from that crowd are voting for Biden this year.
drewcoo 6y ago
Isn't school one of those manipulation techniques?

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

State committees, bureaucracies and advisory boards (it varies by state) that set school curriculum are ultimately accountable to politicians. They will never include strong education against indoctrination or how to balance a budget because that would be biting the hand that feeds them. Look at the incentives and the outcome is obvious. Nobody wants to do things that might draw the ire of their boss's boss's boss.

spamizbad 6y ago
They won’t do that because governments do not, in fact, need balanced budgets.
nine_k 6y ago
While bureaucracies are formally under politicians' control, politicians are elected, and bureaucrats are not. They easily outlast politicians, and definitely set their own conditions for politicians to follow if they don't want their orders obstructed and sabotaged. I would hazard to say that it's in the bureaucrats' best interest to have politicians unpleasant and unqualified, of the "both worse" kind. Interestingly, quite often election candidates tend to resemble this description, at least if their opposition is to be believed.

smt88 6y ago

This "both sides are the same" narrative is utter nonsense. If one side wins, handling of Coronavirus will be based on science and medical advice. Relief bills will be passed, allowing people to pay rent. Thousands more will live. That will make a huge difference in daily life. The last time Democrats had any real power, they gave health care to people with pre-existing conditions. That has changed my life and the lives of millions of other people. Maybe your daily life would be the same either way. Don't try to generalize that to the rest of us.

username90 6y ago
Biden is the guy closest to Trump that the Democrats could find. Do you disagree? Democrats didn't solve any core issues in USA the last times they were elected and Biden has promised to not solve any either. Corona is a very small issue in the long run after all, USA's very short expected lifespan compared to countries with similar wealth kills way more people every single year and nobody has a solution. Instead they squabble over minor things when millions of preventable deaths happens every single year. I'd argue that any candidate who doesn't acknowledge the issue and aims to fix it is not a valid candidate. Obama at least tried even though his solution failed.
- boboboboboboo 6y ago
  There are very important differences between Biden and Trump. Why do you think there aren’t?
  - me_me_me 6y ago
    > There are very important differences between Biden and Trump There is one I can see right away Biden is not gloating about his family side hustles. They are both turds, sides of same coin, and both are evidence that current system is broken. If you are given choice between two thieves and you are arguing that one stole less in the past so its better choice, then you don't see the irony of your 'free choice'. Sure voting biden is clearly better outcome but the system is intact.

blhack 6y ago

In my nieces school (public school in Phoenix) they had to watch “the social dilemma” and write about it. I was trying to explain to her how tik tok, Instagram etc. will try to influence her thinking, and she was basically like “Uncle Ryan yes I know. It’s an algorithm that wants to make you mad. We learned about it in school.” I was proud.

raxxorrax 6y ago
It still does work if you know about it and still use the service.
- smt88 6y ago
  People should be free to allow themselves to be enraged by an algorithm if they want to, just as they should be free to drink alcohol. My problems with social media are that they aren't transparent about the rage-inducing nature of their algorithms and that they are monopolies. Those of us who want to opt out of the rage are also forced to opt out of our online friends and families.

mrkramer 6y ago

No school can protect you against social engineering except if you study psychology then you can recognize threats and try to dodge them.

hedora 6y ago
Going to catholic high school did a good job of teaching this. However, it was an atypical catholic school. It that taught the dark ages honestly: “We let the Catholic Church run Europe for a few hundred years... It turns out that’s a terrible idea”. They also had a few months of “how to avoid cults” in religion class, and a separate, well-done world religions semester. They had a Spanish language “if you want justice fight for peace” poster up (the officially sanctioned Catholic US translation is “work for peace”) and covered multiple instances of the Catholic church working to overthrow corrupt dictatorships, and also covered the abuses of global captialism in a semester on social justice. That was all mandatory. I also remember a talk a holocaust survivor gave proudly proclaiming that the Catholics in Germany overwhelmingly voted against the Nazis. Don’t get me wrong; even that school was offensively conservative in many ways, just as the rest of the church is. I think the obvious cognitive dissonance mostly just helped most students develop their BS detectors. It’s been shocking to hear which right wingers from that crowd are voting for Biden this year.

drewcoo 6y ago

Isn't school one of those manipulation techniques?