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I read somewhere that electric vehicles had some trouble operating in cold environments - something to do with a big loss in mileage. Has this problem been reso

by gbuk2013 6y ago

I read somewhere that electric vehicles had some trouble operating in cold environments - something to do with a big loss in mileage. Has this problem been resolved in modern vehicles? Winters in those parts can be quite nippy.

newsclues 6y ago
Loss occurs but is reasonable. I think heaters are used.
Acinyx 6y ago
The batteries can be heated in cars with liquid thermal management systems which pretty much all new ones have (older Nissan leafs and others did not). This removes a lot of of the impact on range... except if you use use heat in the cabin. Due to them being so efficient, most electric cars can't use waste heat like internal combustion cars, which means they need a separate electrical heater which of course has an impact on range. This article: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cold-weather-saps-electric-car-batteries-2019-02-07 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cold-weather-saps-electric... > The automobile club tested the cars at 20 degrees and 95 degrees, comparing the range to when they were tested at 75 degrees Fahrenheit, according to a report on the study. > At 20 degrees, the average driving range fell by 12% when the car’s cabin heater was not used. When the heater was turned on, the range dropped by 41%, AAA said. > At 95 degrees, range dropped 4% without use of air conditioning, and fell by 17% when the cabin was cooled, the study found.
- baybal2 6y ago
  There are no scooters with liquid cooling as far as I know. A temperature going below 0 means you can't use LFP batteries, a major cost saver. Or you will have to add a heating system, which will be a cost contributor given how cheap scooters are.
chrisseaton 6y ago
> I read somewhere that electric vehicles had some trouble operating in cold environments Isn't Tesla's biggest market share in Norway and Oslo?
- lstodd 6y ago
  I wouldn't call Oslo with winter average minimum temperatures of about -5 C a cold environment Now something with more continental climate like Quebec City with average lows of -15 C or so would be more like it. Now, people drive Teslas even in mid-to-northern Russia where one can get weeks of -20 C -ish easily. But they just show off in summer, having a trusty 200-series petrol Landcruiser handy.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  Norway has much warmer winters than the other Nordic countries due to the influence of the Gulf Stream.
meerita 6y ago
I depends, if you are commuting nothing happens, if you leave your escooter outside for long periods then the battery may suffer.
raxxorrax 6y ago
I think modern cars mostly heat up the battery, which comes with a hit to range. I don't think e-bikes do the same. We have some company EV and in real cold weather with active AC and ventilation within cities, the range almost halves. That said, combustion engines also need more fuel in these cases, which is bad because it also increases pollution as long as the vehicle is still cold. It just isn't as noticeable because waste heat is used for heating. It also means that it doesn't really work until you drive a bit.
Broken_Hippo 6y ago
It can't be too much of an issue, considering that Norway has been quickly adopting electric cars and it is rather cold.
epanchin 6y ago
Diesel isn’t great either - the diesel gels in the cold and has to be heated again. It’s a real pain, I can see why electric cars are popular in cold countries even if the range isn’t as advertised.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Cold countries like Canada and Russia and that part of the US they bought from Russia once upon a time? The reason electric cars are popular in scandinavia is tax policy. Everyone else uses petrol cars or they use diesel and deal with the issues.
  - lstodd 6y ago
    Yeah well. People do not realise what 'cold' means. It's when the standard equipment of a gasoline engined car includes a preheater which is basically a dedicated burner to heat up the engine because otherwise even a gas engine would not start.
delfinom 6y ago
If you had a car in that nippy weather, you most likely were forced to install engine block heaters and literally plug your engine into an AC outlet overnight. Electric vehicles can self-heat the batteries with internal heaters already installed. And you are probably plugging the car into charge overnight anyway.
ip26 6y ago
On my ebike I might drop from 100%->70% on a summer's ride to work and 100%->60% on a cold winter day. (It doesn't get much colder than -20C though) So there is an effect, but it isn't terrible. Ideally your battery already has extra capacity in the first place- everybody knows that some buffer capacity helps extend the life of the battery. I find snow & ice are not a big deal for range either, even with studs & aggressive tires, because you reduce your speed & assist for safety.

newsclues 6y ago

Loss occurs but is reasonable. I think heaters are used.

Acinyx 6y ago

The batteries can be heated in cars with liquid thermal management systems which pretty much all new ones have (older Nissan leafs and others did not). This removes a lot of of the impact on range... except if you use use heat in the cabin. Due to them being so efficient, most electric cars can't use waste heat like internal combustion cars, which means they need a separate electrical heater which of course has an impact on range. This article: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cold-weather-saps-electric-car-batteries-2019-02-07 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cold-weather-saps-electric... > The automobile club tested the cars at 20 degrees and 95 degrees, comparing the range to when they were tested at 75 degrees Fahrenheit, according to a report on the study. > At 20 degrees, the average driving range fell by 12% when the car’s cabin heater was not used. When the heater was turned on, the range dropped by 41%, AAA said. > At 95 degrees, range dropped 4% without use of air conditioning, and fell by 17% when the cabin was cooled, the study found.

baybal2 6y ago
There are no scooters with liquid cooling as far as I know. A temperature going below 0 means you can't use LFP batteries, a major cost saver. Or you will have to add a heating system, which will be a cost contributor given how cheap scooters are.

chrisseaton 6y ago

> I read somewhere that electric vehicles had some trouble operating in cold environments Isn't Tesla's biggest market share in Norway and Oslo?

lstodd 6y ago
I wouldn't call Oslo with winter average minimum temperatures of about -5 C a cold environment Now something with more continental climate like Quebec City with average lows of -15 C or so would be more like it. Now, people drive Teslas even in mid-to-northern Russia where one can get weeks of -20 C -ish easily. But they just show off in summer, having a trusty 200-series petrol Landcruiser handy.
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Norway has much warmer winters than the other Nordic countries due to the influence of the Gulf Stream.

meerita 6y ago

I depends, if you are commuting nothing happens, if you leave your escooter outside for long periods then the battery may suffer.

raxxorrax 6y ago

I think modern cars mostly heat up the battery, which comes with a hit to range. I don't think e-bikes do the same. We have some company EV and in real cold weather with active AC and ventilation within cities, the range almost halves. That said, combustion engines also need more fuel in these cases, which is bad because it also increases pollution as long as the vehicle is still cold. It just isn't as noticeable because waste heat is used for heating. It also means that it doesn't really work until you drive a bit.

Broken_Hippo 6y ago

It can't be too much of an issue, considering that Norway has been quickly adopting electric cars and it is rather cold.

epanchin 6y ago

Diesel isn’t great either - the diesel gels in the cold and has to be heated again. It’s a real pain, I can see why electric cars are popular in cold countries even if the range isn’t as advertised.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Cold countries like Canada and Russia and that part of the US they bought from Russia once upon a time? The reason electric cars are popular in scandinavia is tax policy. Everyone else uses petrol cars or they use diesel and deal with the issues.
- lstodd 6y ago
  Yeah well. People do not realise what 'cold' means. It's when the standard equipment of a gasoline engined car includes a preheater which is basically a dedicated burner to heat up the engine because otherwise even a gas engine would not start.

delfinom 6y ago

If you had a car in that nippy weather, you most likely were forced to install engine block heaters and literally plug your engine into an AC outlet overnight. Electric vehicles can self-heat the batteries with internal heaters already installed. And you are probably plugging the car into charge overnight anyway.

ip26 6y ago

On my ebike I might drop from 100%->70% on a summer's ride to work and 100%->60% on a cold winter day. (It doesn't get much colder than -20C though) So there is an effect, but it isn't terrible. Ideally your battery already has extra capacity in the first place- everybody knows that some buffer capacity helps extend the life of the battery. I find snow & ice are not a big deal for range either, even with studs & aggressive tires, because you reduce your speed & assist for safety.