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Article written in 1964... It is astonishing. It is not just that the public discourse has worsened: paranoid anti-intellectualism now _dominates_ the discourse

Article written in 1964... It is astonishing. It is not just that the public discourse has worsened: paranoid anti-intellectualism now _dominates_ the discourse in the US.

runawaybottle 6y ago
Sticking with it’s prescience: But the modern right wing, as Daniel Bell has put it, feels dispossessed: America has been largely taken away from them and their kind, though they are determined to try to repossess it and to prevent the final destructive act of subversion. The old American virtues have already been eaten away by cosmopolitans and intellectuals; the old competitive capitalism has been gradually undermined by socialistic and communistic schemers; the old national security and independence have been destroyed by treasonous plots, having as their most powerful agents not merely outsiders and foreigners as of old but major statesmen who are at the very centers of American power. Their predecessors had discovered conspiracies; the modern radical right finds conspiracy to be betrayal from on high. I’d go as far as to say the protectionism and conspiratorial thinking is the result of an actual betrayal that the larger population have not emotionally reconciled. The right wing, along with the left wing, sold out to corporate interests in a steady manner over decades. Sometimes, it can be difficult to accept betrayal. It’s similar to grief, you can’t believe it’s real - Say it isn’t true, there must be another explanation. Tell me it’s these social welfare programs, and immigrants, say it isn’t the systematic erosion of the working class. My kid? Failed fifth grade? Me? A bad parent? Impossible, the teachers are bad, the education system .... Who is ready to accept this stuff immediately? The American public have been voting against their own interest for a long time. You have shitty healthcare and benefits because you got duped. You spent your tax money on foreign wars because you got duped. Your stock market is an unregulated casino where bankers toy with your money with impunity, and you’ll bail them out, again because you got duped into eating the bullshit. No, not my kid, he’d never murder anyone, the cops must have set him up. This is certainly the denial stage for the right wing. The Left has it’s own grief coming soon enough. Lots of promises, lots of stuff that’s never going to come true. Lots of stuff about the Democrats that’s no different than the Republicans, and one day they’ll have to conjure up some conspiracy to deal with the dupe. Some part of me almost understands the Trump voter. He transparently manipulates you (oxymoron?). If you’ve been lied to for decades, there is some dignity in accepting someone that straight lies to you versus the bells and whistles liars like some Presidents have been.
- wwweston 6y ago
  > The Left has it’s own grief coming soon enough. Lots of promises, lots of stuff that’s never going to come true. Definitely lots of stuff that already hasn't come true, and the left can't seem to get a plurality in a primary. > Lots of stuff about the Democrats Oh wait I thought we were talking about the left.
  - runawaybottle 6y ago
    I mostly equate the two parties. The “left” as an actual voting block is synonymous with the Democrats, since a third party will never emerge in America, but it is 2020 so who knows.
    - furyg3 6y ago
      Just to be clear, a third party can definitely arise in America (it has happened before), but the FPTP system means that one of the existing parties must die in the process.
      - mschuster91 6y ago
        > but the FPTP system means that one of the existing parties must die in the process. 2020 will be really interesting, assumes Trump loses this election... honestly I'd not be surprised when the Republicans break up.
        C1sc0cat 6y ago
        I must admit as an outsider I think that might happen. The GOP needs to do what John Smith, Tony and Gordan did and kick out the entryist faction that is destroying the party but I suspect its to late.
        reducesuffering 6y ago
        Libertarian Party has been historically closer to the Republicans, and is the 3rd most popular, getting up to 5-6% popular vote in some states. If the Republicans really try to contest a Democratic election win, and fail, that could be the devastating blow that would tip Libertarians into assuming the two-party spot.
bleepblorp 6y ago
There is a ratcheting effect in US conservative politics whereby the social conservative voting bloc needs to be cultivated with ever more extreme positions just to keep them interested enough to vote for the Republican party. This has mostly manifest through increasing racism but is also manifest by increasing hatred towards intellectuals and thinking people in general. The pattern of social conservatives demanding increasingly extreme positions from their leaders is not dissimilar to how addicts become desensitized to their drug of addiction and need increasingly higher doses to get their high. In the 1960s, using dog-whistles to pander to anti-black racism (through the Southern Strategy[0]) was enough to bring out the social conservative vote for the Republican party. Over time, the demands of social conservatives have made the dog-whistles less quiet and the number of targeted groups has expanded from only African-Americans to Hispanics, people who live in urban areas, to scientists and other intellectuals, and now to all Democrats. By 2016, it took Trump's level of vile xenophobia--directed against anyone who wasn't a willfully ignorant racist--to motivate social conservatives to vote in large numbers. In 2020, the social conservatives are demanding fealty to QAnon, a conspiracy theory that is at odds with objective reality. Whatever degree of racist anti-intellectualism social conservatives demand in 2020 and 2024 will be worse. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
dalbasal 6y ago
I think a lot of modern anti-intellectualism is really more of a pseudo-intellectualism. It's anti-intellectual in the sense that it can be disdainful of intellectuals and intellectual institutions like newspapers, universities. But form-wise, it tends to be formulated around alternative facts, studies, experts and whatnot. Flat earth or intelligent design theories are more pseudo-intellectual than anti-intellectual. They have their own studies & citations... mimicking scientific intellectualism rather than dismissing it. The from is of rogue or dissenting intellectuals against the mainstream. If they're in a tussle with Richard Dawkins, the criticism is that he is not really being scientific. It's rarely a criticism of science as an approach.
- gedy 6y ago
  Frankly, much of the concerning anti-intellectualism is coming from the university in the form of identity politics and stifling of discussion.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - api 6y ago
    A saying I've had for quite a while: the left pioneers really bad ideas, and the right implements them at scale. Identity politics is a great example. Late 20th century leftists brought identity politics into fashion, but it was the right that really took it and ran with it with Bush's politics of the "base" and then Trump's identity politics. A deeper example would be "culture jamming" and the maybe-ironic prankster/trickster political style. That came out of the 60s/70s left with stuff like the Church of the Subgenius, and stuff like alternate reality gaming (ARGs) pioneered in the 90s. The intellectual basis for it ultimately comes from postmodernism. The right is now weaponizing this style and implementing it at scale with Qanon. Edit since it won't let me reply: I'd define identity politics as the idea that your biology or cultural background places you in a group that should define your ideas and political affinities.
    - pjc50 6y ago
giantg2 6y ago
I had the check the publication date too. Not due to the content, but because you don't see pieces as well written and constructed in today's press.
- elliekelly 6y ago
  It makes me wonder how long the authors spent research, writing, and revising. I suspect it took more time than would ever be allocated to crafting an article in 2020.
- Nimitz14 6y ago
  You do, you probably just aren't willing to pay for them.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    Do you have any examples? I haven't seen newspaper articles, magazine articles, online articles, nor television reports of this quality. Most of these generate revenue through ads, but some are behind a paywall or require purchase.
    - ahartman00 6y ago
      I thought this was pretty good. It's a series. IIRC, the author talked to a pharmacist who was involved, discussed his role in TrueCrypt, and so much more. "He was a brilliant programmer and a vicious cartel boss, who became a prized U.S. government asset. The Atavist Magazine presents a story of an elusive criminal kingpin, told in weekly installments." https://magazine.atavist.com/the-mastermind https://magazine.atavist.com/the-mastermind
      - giantg2 6y ago
        It's not my style. It reads like a true crime novel. I like concise and matter-of-fact reporting. This has too much fluff and presumptive adjectives/adverbs for me. It seems like the series would probably make a good Netflix "docuseries" (I use quotes because I feel many of them are over dramatized). This does remind me... the closest articles I've seen to the quality of the OP's posted article I've found on Aeon. It can be hit or miss though.
disown 6y ago
Go watch Carlin's old comedy bits. He talks about disinformation, culture wars, etc. You think fake news and misinformation is new? "Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knolege with the lies of the day..." https://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_speechs29.html https://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_sp... Go look up how "conspiracy theories" were used as a weapon by the media/elites to silence those they did not like just a few decades ago. It's all like generational groundhog day. Each generation lives through the same story over and over again.
- tux1968 6y ago
  And this is why we should not be letting anyone convince us that they know best about which stories should be allowed and which should be suppressed. Those advocating for what amounts to a Ministry of Truth should really know better. We've already learned this lesson. This lever of power should not exist because it is impossible for it not to be abused. For all the downsides of too much information and a torrent of crappy opinions that exist on an open internet, it's still much better than the results you get with authoritarian oversight.
  - mistermann 6y ago
    And yet, observe the lovely greyed out color of the comment to which you are responding, among the large quantity of claims that it's only the right that engages in propaganda and self-serving delusional thinking. It would be quite interesting (but I suspect unpopular) for HN to have an experimental mode where people must give a reason for downvoting. :)

Article written in 1964... It is astonishing. It is not just that the public discourse has worsened: paranoid anti-intellectualism now _dominates_ the discourse in the US.

runawaybottle 6y ago

Sticking with it’s prescience: But the modern right wing, as Daniel Bell has put it, feels dispossessed: America has been largely taken away from them and their kind, though they are determined to try to repossess it and to prevent the final destructive act of subversion. The old American virtues have already been eaten away by cosmopolitans and intellectuals; the old competitive capitalism has been gradually undermined by socialistic and communistic schemers; the old national security and independence have been destroyed by treasonous plots, having as their most powerful agents not merely outsiders and foreigners as of old but major statesmen who are at the very centers of American power. Their predecessors had discovered conspiracies; the modern radical right finds conspiracy to be betrayal from on high. I’d go as far as to say the protectionism and conspiratorial thinking is the result of an actual betrayal that the larger population have not emotionally reconciled. The right wing, along with the left wing, sold out to corporate interests in a steady manner over decades. Sometimes, it can be difficult to accept betrayal. It’s similar to grief, you can’t believe it’s real - Say it isn’t true, there must be another explanation. Tell me it’s these social welfare programs, and immigrants, say it isn’t the systematic erosion of the working class. My kid? Failed fifth grade? Me? A bad parent? Impossible, the teachers are bad, the education system .... Who is ready to accept this stuff immediately? The American public have been voting against their own interest for a long time. You have shitty healthcare and benefits because you got duped. You spent your tax money on foreign wars because you got duped. Your stock market is an unregulated casino where bankers toy with your money with impunity, and you’ll bail them out, again because you got duped into eating the bullshit. No, not my kid, he’d never murder anyone, the cops must have set him up. This is certainly the denial stage for the right wing. The Left has it’s own grief coming soon enough. Lots of promises, lots of stuff that’s never going to come true. Lots of stuff about the Democrats that’s no different than the Republicans, and one day they’ll have to conjure up some conspiracy to deal with the dupe. Some part of me almost understands the Trump voter. He transparently manipulates you (oxymoron?). If you’ve been lied to for decades, there is some dignity in accepting someone that straight lies to you versus the bells and whistles liars like some Presidents have been.

wwweston 6y ago
> The Left has it’s own grief coming soon enough. Lots of promises, lots of stuff that’s never going to come true. Definitely lots of stuff that already hasn't come true, and the left can't seem to get a plurality in a primary. > Lots of stuff about the Democrats Oh wait I thought we were talking about the left.
- runawaybottle 6y ago
  I mostly equate the two parties. The “left” as an actual voting block is synonymous with the Democrats, since a third party will never emerge in America, but it is 2020 so who knows.
  - furyg3 6y ago
    Just to be clear, a third party can definitely arise in America (it has happened before), but the FPTP system means that one of the existing parties must die in the process.
    - mschuster91 6y ago
      > but the FPTP system means that one of the existing parties must die in the process. 2020 will be really interesting, assumes Trump loses this election... honestly I'd not be surprised when the Republicans break up.
      - C1sc0cat 6y ago
        I must admit as an outsider I think that might happen. The GOP needs to do what John Smith, Tony and Gordan did and kick out the entryist faction that is destroying the party but I suspect its to late.
        reducesuffering 6y ago
        Libertarian Party has been historically closer to the Republicans, and is the 3rd most popular, getting up to 5-6% popular vote in some states. If the Republicans really try to contest a Democratic election win, and fail, that could be the devastating blow that would tip Libertarians into assuming the two-party spot.

bleepblorp 6y ago

There is a ratcheting effect in US conservative politics whereby the social conservative voting bloc needs to be cultivated with ever more extreme positions just to keep them interested enough to vote for the Republican party. This has mostly manifest through increasing racism but is also manifest by increasing hatred towards intellectuals and thinking people in general. The pattern of social conservatives demanding increasingly extreme positions from their leaders is not dissimilar to how addicts become desensitized to their drug of addiction and need increasingly higher doses to get their high. In the 1960s, using dog-whistles to pander to anti-black racism (through the Southern Strategy[0]) was enough to bring out the social conservative vote for the Republican party. Over time, the demands of social conservatives have made the dog-whistles less quiet and the number of targeted groups has expanded from only African-Americans to Hispanics, people who live in urban areas, to scientists and other intellectuals, and now to all Democrats. By 2016, it took Trump's level of vile xenophobia--directed against anyone who wasn't a willfully ignorant racist--to motivate social conservatives to vote in large numbers. In 2020, the social conservatives are demanding fealty to QAnon, a conspiracy theory that is at odds with objective reality. Whatever degree of racist anti-intellectualism social conservatives demand in 2020 and 2024 will be worse. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

dalbasal 6y ago

I think a lot of modern anti-intellectualism is really more of a pseudo-intellectualism. It's anti-intellectual in the sense that it can be disdainful of intellectuals and intellectual institutions like newspapers, universities. But form-wise, it tends to be formulated around alternative facts, studies, experts and whatnot. Flat earth or intelligent design theories are more pseudo-intellectual than anti-intellectual. They have their own studies & citations... mimicking scientific intellectualism rather than dismissing it. The from is of rogue or dissenting intellectuals against the mainstream. If they're in a tussle with Richard Dawkins, the criticism is that he is not really being scientific. It's rarely a criticism of science as an approach.

gedy 6y ago
Frankly, much of the concerning anti-intellectualism is coming from the university in the form of identity politics and stifling of discussion.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- api 6y ago
  A saying I've had for quite a while: the left pioneers really bad ideas, and the right implements them at scale. Identity politics is a great example. Late 20th century leftists brought identity politics into fashion, but it was the right that really took it and ran with it with Bush's politics of the "base" and then Trump's identity politics. A deeper example would be "culture jamming" and the maybe-ironic prankster/trickster political style. That came out of the 60s/70s left with stuff like the Church of the Subgenius, and stuff like alternate reality gaming (ARGs) pioneered in the 90s. The intellectual basis for it ultimately comes from postmodernism. The right is now weaponizing this style and implementing it at scale with Qanon. Edit since it won't let me reply: I'd define identity politics as the idea that your biology or cultural background places you in a group that should define your ideas and political affinities.
  - pjc50 6y ago

giantg2 6y ago

I had the check the publication date too. Not due to the content, but because you don't see pieces as well written and constructed in today's press.

elliekelly 6y ago
It makes me wonder how long the authors spent research, writing, and revising. I suspect it took more time than would ever be allocated to crafting an article in 2020.
Nimitz14 6y ago
You do, you probably just aren't willing to pay for them.
- giantg2 6y ago
  Do you have any examples? I haven't seen newspaper articles, magazine articles, online articles, nor television reports of this quality. Most of these generate revenue through ads, but some are behind a paywall or require purchase.
  - ahartman00 6y ago
    I thought this was pretty good. It's a series. IIRC, the author talked to a pharmacist who was involved, discussed his role in TrueCrypt, and so much more. "He was a brilliant programmer and a vicious cartel boss, who became a prized U.S. government asset. The Atavist Magazine presents a story of an elusive criminal kingpin, told in weekly installments." https://magazine.atavist.com/the-mastermind https://magazine.atavist.com/the-mastermind
    - giantg2 6y ago
      It's not my style. It reads like a true crime novel. I like concise and matter-of-fact reporting. This has too much fluff and presumptive adjectives/adverbs for me. It seems like the series would probably make a good Netflix "docuseries" (I use quotes because I feel many of them are over dramatized). This does remind me... the closest articles I've seen to the quality of the OP's posted article I've found on Aeon. It can be hit or miss though.

disown 6y ago

Go watch Carlin's old comedy bits. He talks about disinformation, culture wars, etc. You think fake news and misinformation is new? "Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knolege with the lies of the day..." https://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_speechs29.html https://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_sp... Go look up how "conspiracy theories" were used as a weapon by the media/elites to silence those they did not like just a few decades ago. It's all like generational groundhog day. Each generation lives through the same story over and over again.

tux1968 6y ago
And this is why we should not be letting anyone convince us that they know best about which stories should be allowed and which should be suppressed. Those advocating for what amounts to a Ministry of Truth should really know better. We've already learned this lesson. This lever of power should not exist because it is impossible for it not to be abused. For all the downsides of too much information and a torrent of crappy opinions that exist on an open internet, it's still much better than the results you get with authoritarian oversight.
- mistermann 6y ago
  And yet, observe the lovely greyed out color of the comment to which you are responding, among the large quantity of claims that it's only the right that engages in propaganda and self-serving delusional thinking. It would be quite interesting (but I suspect unpopular) for HN to have an experimental mode where people must give a reason for downvoting. :)