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1. It’s not the stopping that’s a problem, it’s the starting. You have to track up to three other vehicles to ensure they have the same perception and are follo

1. It’s not the stopping that’s a problem, it’s the starting. You have to track up to three other vehicles to ensure they have the same perception and are following the same rules as you are. Either of my alternatives significantly reduces this problem. 2. The choice of priority road, once made, makes it not arbitrary. The point is to reduce the complexity of the intersection, by giving one road priority. For the purposes of my argument, it doesn’t matter which one. 3. Relying on the assumption that everyone knows how to act in a situation that requires evaluation of up to three other people’s perception and intention is dangerous and unnecessary.

Dylan16807 6y ago
You have to track up to more than three other vehicles in a roundabout. And they're moving faster. But people manage it.
- doctor_eval 6y ago
  Nonsense. We’re not talking about nightmare roundabouts like the “wheel of death” in my city, which are clearly not fit for purpose. We’re talking about roundabouts as an alternative to 4 way stop signs. In a small residential roundabout there is a single lane going in a circle. Either you can safely enter the lane, or you can not. The roundabout serialises the traffic flow so that a driver entering the roundabout need only deal with the next vehicle in the lane. You don’t have to worry about the (potentially unsignalled) intent of any other drivers, make eye contact with them, time their arrival, etc. To be honest though, I think you know all of this, and you’re simply engaging with me in bad faith.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    > You don’t have to worry about the (potentially unsignalled) intent of any other drivers, make eye contact with them It's very possible to have situations at a roundabout that aren't binary. It can be legitimately unclear if the person in the next entrance is going to enter the roundabout before you, especially because the exact moment a car counts as "in" the roundabout is a fuzzy measure that people could disagree on. If they're going slower than you, then whether you or they are supposed to yield can be unclear. So you have to handle their intent, not just follow a checklist. This is a rare situation, but so is having to worry about the intent of other drivers at a 4 way stop. > time their arrival You definitely have to time the arrival at roundabouts. Cars can't stop instantly, so any situation that involves yielding means you have to time things. > The roundabout serialises the traffic flow so that a driver entering the roundabout need only deal with the next vehicle in the lane. You need to pay attention to other cars coming up too, the ones that will be in front you at the roundabout in addition to the cars that are in front of you while approaching the roundabout. This could easily be more than three. And if a 4 way stop is experiencing a lot of traffic, it goes into a mode where cars alternate in pairs, so you only have to look at the turn signal of the car across you. This specific case is actually easier than a busy small roundabout! > To be honest though, I think you know all of this, and you’re simply engaging with me in bad faith. I'm not engaging in bad faith at all. You're overestimating the problems with 4 way stops, while arguing as if [small] roundabouts are perfect. Neither one is perfect, and neither one is dangerous.

Dylan16807 6y ago

You have to track up to more than three other vehicles in a roundabout. And they're moving faster. But people manage it.

doctor_eval 6y ago
Nonsense. We’re not talking about nightmare roundabouts like the “wheel of death” in my city, which are clearly not fit for purpose. We’re talking about roundabouts as an alternative to 4 way stop signs. In a small residential roundabout there is a single lane going in a circle. Either you can safely enter the lane, or you can not. The roundabout serialises the traffic flow so that a driver entering the roundabout need only deal with the next vehicle in the lane. You don’t have to worry about the (potentially unsignalled) intent of any other drivers, make eye contact with them, time their arrival, etc. To be honest though, I think you know all of this, and you’re simply engaging with me in bad faith.
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  > You don’t have to worry about the (potentially unsignalled) intent of any other drivers, make eye contact with them It's very possible to have situations at a roundabout that aren't binary. It can be legitimately unclear if the person in the next entrance is going to enter the roundabout before you, especially because the exact moment a car counts as "in" the roundabout is a fuzzy measure that people could disagree on. If they're going slower than you, then whether you or they are supposed to yield can be unclear. So you have to handle their intent, not just follow a checklist. This is a rare situation, but so is having to worry about the intent of other drivers at a 4 way stop. > time their arrival You definitely have to time the arrival at roundabouts. Cars can't stop instantly, so any situation that involves yielding means you have to time things. > The roundabout serialises the traffic flow so that a driver entering the roundabout need only deal with the next vehicle in the lane. You need to pay attention to other cars coming up too, the ones that will be in front you at the roundabout in addition to the cars that are in front of you while approaching the roundabout. This could easily be more than three. And if a 4 way stop is experiencing a lot of traffic, it goes into a mode where cars alternate in pairs, so you only have to look at the turn signal of the car across you. This specific case is actually easier than a busy small roundabout! > To be honest though, I think you know all of this, and you’re simply engaging with me in bad faith. I'm not engaging in bad faith at all. You're overestimating the problems with 4 way stops, while arguing as if [small] roundabouts are perfect. Neither one is perfect, and neither one is dangerous.