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I find comments like this extremely interesting. What you've written is deranged and comes across like a programmed response similar (I would say functionally i

I find comments like this extremely interesting. What you've written is deranged and comes across like a programmed response similar (I would say functionally identical) to that of a devoted cult member. You've just rattled off what come across as very hackneyed almost childlike talking points. However, based on your profile you're obviously an extremely intelligent and productive person. It really shows the importance of having a well ordered society with a ruling class that has the general welfare of the citizenry in mind. The world is too complicated and complex a place for every person, even the most intelligent and productive among us, to have to concern themselves with these sorts of things. We have a right to live in a society where we can trust our institutions. Unfortunately we are living in a time where our institutions are completely and utterly corrupt at almost evert level.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> It really shows the importance of having a well ordered society with a ruling class that has the general welfare of the citizenry in mind. Unless the citizenry as a whole is the ruling class, you will never have that except as a transient aberration.
- googthrowaway42 6y ago
  Yes I get what you're saying. It is transient in the sense that all civilizations have an arc or cycle that involves greatness and then decadence. However, what I'm talking about is not a perfect set of selfless angels in the ruling class but rather a sense of virtue to counteract the natural tendency of wielding power in a self serving nature. I really see very little of that virtue at all right now. As a very crass but serious example of that, when I was growing up no one in a place of authority was trying to convince me that I (a male) was a girl whereas children growing up now are having to deal with that.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > However, what I'm talking about is not a perfect set of selfless angels in the ruling class but rather a sense of virtue to counteract the natural tendency of wielding power in a self serving nature Yeah, that's what I'm talking about too. I'm saying that human nature being what it is, having that not be almost totally dominated by the self-interest and exploitatiin when you have a separate and distinct ruling class is something that isn't ever going to be a stable thing, but only a momentary exception.
    - googthrowaway42 6y ago
      I think I'm less pessimistic than you are but I get where you're coming from. According to Pareto (yes, that Pareto), there is a natural ebb and flow of this sort of national vs self interest that exists within the ruling class. In a healthy society there is more circulation in and out of the ruling class which allows those with more of a national interest to dominate when that is necessary. If there is too much self interest within the ruling class and not enough circulation it ends up "killing the host". I would definitely recommend the book "The Machiavellians" by James Burnham for a formal survey of these sort of ideas. Pareto is one of these Machiavellians and so his work is analyzed.
  - api 6y ago
    > As a very crass but serious example of that, when I was growing up no one in a place of authority was trying to convince me that I (a male) was a girl whereas children growing up now are having to deal with that. I'd like to see some statistics on this. Is this a common thing or just something that went viral once on social media? I know people from all over the political spectrum and I have neither seen nor heard of anyone doing this. I feel like you're placing far too much weight on an anecdote, and dare I say it appears you're being triggered by it. Liberals fall into this trap too, like pushing to ban plastic drinking straws because a pic of a cute animal damaged by a drinking straw went viral on Facebook. In reality banning plastic straws won't accomplish anything as that's not where 99%+ of ocean plastic comes from. In reality parents forcing gender identities on children that are different from their biological identity is just not a thing beyond an exceedingly small fringe-of-the-fringe. (I agree that this could well be child abuse, though I'd like to know the details before passing judgement.) In any case, if this were happening to you today you would have the option of approaching a teacher or counselor and reporting that it was occurring and that you were not okay with it. It's likely that this would get you a visit from CPS, or some other kind of intervention, in most states. Once you were old enough there are options like emancipation available. Those aren't great options, but options exist. In the good old days you'd have no recourse. There was no CPS. There was no emancipation. Your parents could have dressed you in women's clothes against your will or just plain kicked the crap out of you and well, they're your parents so shut up and behave. A hundred years ago parents more or less owned their children. While I'm sure forced gender reassignment was rare, physical and sexual abuse were not. They are still far, far more common than weird things like what you mention.
api 6y ago
What cult do I belong to? I am looking at two candidates. One is a diagnosable narcissist who says he “grabs women by the pussy” and was friends with Jeffrey Epstein. The other is in lots of videos acting apparently creepy and his son is at the very least a total mess. The first of these can barely talk in complete sentences and tweets in all caps. The second can talk, but is not particularly articulate compared to a member of a High School debate club. These two men are candidates for President of the United States. Something is very very wrong. The simplest explanation is that competent qualified candidates don’t want the job.
- googthrowaway42 6y ago
  You belong to the cult of the mainstream. These talking points that you're trotting out are shallow and prepackaged, provided to you by the traditional organs of culture, and function more like shibboleths for other cult members rather than as actual arguments.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    I find it hard to imagine believing that talking points pushed by the most watched and highest rated news network in the country[1], and by the head, and majority, of the executive and legislative branches of government are somehow not mainstream. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cable_news https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cable_news
    - googthrowaway42 6y ago
      Yes let's compare that to: 1. All of the mainstream media except for Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity 2. All of academia (higher and lower education) 3. All of Hollywood 4. Essentially all of entertainment in general (music, late night television, Netflix) 5. All of the federal government bureaucracy 6. All major social media platforms 7. Almost all major corporations 8. Almost all of the international community So essentially every single institution except for those you listed.

dragonwriter 6y ago

> It really shows the importance of having a well ordered society with a ruling class that has the general welfare of the citizenry in mind. Unless the citizenry as a whole is the ruling class, you will never have that except as a transient aberration.

googthrowaway42 6y ago
Yes I get what you're saying. It is transient in the sense that all civilizations have an arc or cycle that involves greatness and then decadence. However, what I'm talking about is not a perfect set of selfless angels in the ruling class but rather a sense of virtue to counteract the natural tendency of wielding power in a self serving nature. I really see very little of that virtue at all right now. As a very crass but serious example of that, when I was growing up no one in a place of authority was trying to convince me that I (a male) was a girl whereas children growing up now are having to deal with that.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > However, what I'm talking about is not a perfect set of selfless angels in the ruling class but rather a sense of virtue to counteract the natural tendency of wielding power in a self serving nature Yeah, that's what I'm talking about too. I'm saying that human nature being what it is, having that not be almost totally dominated by the self-interest and exploitatiin when you have a separate and distinct ruling class is something that isn't ever going to be a stable thing, but only a momentary exception.
  - googthrowaway42 6y ago
    I think I'm less pessimistic than you are but I get where you're coming from. According to Pareto (yes, that Pareto), there is a natural ebb and flow of this sort of national vs self interest that exists within the ruling class. In a healthy society there is more circulation in and out of the ruling class which allows those with more of a national interest to dominate when that is necessary. If there is too much self interest within the ruling class and not enough circulation it ends up "killing the host". I would definitely recommend the book "The Machiavellians" by James Burnham for a formal survey of these sort of ideas. Pareto is one of these Machiavellians and so his work is analyzed.
- api 6y ago
  > As a very crass but serious example of that, when I was growing up no one in a place of authority was trying to convince me that I (a male) was a girl whereas children growing up now are having to deal with that. I'd like to see some statistics on this. Is this a common thing or just something that went viral once on social media? I know people from all over the political spectrum and I have neither seen nor heard of anyone doing this. I feel like you're placing far too much weight on an anecdote, and dare I say it appears you're being triggered by it. Liberals fall into this trap too, like pushing to ban plastic drinking straws because a pic of a cute animal damaged by a drinking straw went viral on Facebook. In reality banning plastic straws won't accomplish anything as that's not where 99%+ of ocean plastic comes from. In reality parents forcing gender identities on children that are different from their biological identity is just not a thing beyond an exceedingly small fringe-of-the-fringe. (I agree that this could well be child abuse, though I'd like to know the details before passing judgement.) In any case, if this were happening to you today you would have the option of approaching a teacher or counselor and reporting that it was occurring and that you were not okay with it. It's likely that this would get you a visit from CPS, or some other kind of intervention, in most states. Once you were old enough there are options like emancipation available. Those aren't great options, but options exist. In the good old days you'd have no recourse. There was no CPS. There was no emancipation. Your parents could have dressed you in women's clothes against your will or just plain kicked the crap out of you and well, they're your parents so shut up and behave. A hundred years ago parents more or less owned their children. While I'm sure forced gender reassignment was rare, physical and sexual abuse were not. They are still far, far more common than weird things like what you mention.

api 6y ago

What cult do I belong to? I am looking at two candidates. One is a diagnosable narcissist who says he “grabs women by the pussy” and was friends with Jeffrey Epstein. The other is in lots of videos acting apparently creepy and his son is at the very least a total mess. The first of these can barely talk in complete sentences and tweets in all caps. The second can talk, but is not particularly articulate compared to a member of a High School debate club. These two men are candidates for President of the United States. Something is very very wrong. The simplest explanation is that competent qualified candidates don’t want the job.

googthrowaway42 6y ago
You belong to the cult of the mainstream. These talking points that you're trotting out are shallow and prepackaged, provided to you by the traditional organs of culture, and function more like shibboleths for other cult members rather than as actual arguments.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  I find it hard to imagine believing that talking points pushed by the most watched and highest rated news network in the country[1], and by the head, and majority, of the executive and legislative branches of government are somehow not mainstream. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cable_news https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cable_news
  - googthrowaway42 6y ago
    Yes let's compare that to: 1. All of the mainstream media except for Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity 2. All of academia (higher and lower education) 3. All of Hollywood 4. Essentially all of entertainment in general (music, late night television, Netflix) 5. All of the federal government bureaucracy 6. All major social media platforms 7. Almost all major corporations 8. Almost all of the international community So essentially every single institution except for those you listed.