6 ms·

Everything you need to know about windsocks

100 points by oftenwrong 6y ago

gouggoug 6y ago
Another use: skydivers rely on wind socks as well to land against the wind
- KineticLensman 6y ago
  They also throw wind drift indicators out of the plane before commencing the jump run
  - chrischattin 6y ago
    Wind drift indicators are more to determine the winds at altitude vs on the ground. We drop them right over the landing zone and watch where they land. Then, adjust the jump run, exit point, and pattern accordingly. So, not necessarily determining the direction of landing, because winds can be different on the ground and at altitude.
EarthLaunch 6y ago
Title in HN context gave me a flashback to the 90s: Everything you need to know about Winsocks [1] (windows sockets) 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winsock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winsock
- anta40 6y ago
  Me too. I thought this post is related to Windows network programming.
  - Redheir 6y ago
    I thought the same thing.
- unnouinceput 6y ago
  90's? On desktop world this is pretty much still in use due to Windows being king on desktop. And if you master Winsock you can still rack in the big bucks even if you ignore everything else.
  - the-dude 6y ago
    By doing what exactly?
  - quietbritishjim 6y ago
    Why not use a wrapper API like ASIO?
    - soylentgraham 6y ago
      Why not just use the API? :)
      - quietbritishjim 6y ago
        Advantages: * Using a wrapper lets you use the same API on different platforms. This is not just for programs that are expected to compile and run on multiple platforms (although that is the main reason); it's also for developers who are expected to write programs for multiple platforms. * This potentially allows for a cleaner API, because the native OS one has to be careful about backwards compatibility, whereas wrapper APIs can be more carefree about it, at least initially. In the most extreme case, you can use a totally new library with a freshly-designed API. At this point ASIO has stabilised, but you can see it's substantially different from WinSock (albeit it has the same fundamental concepts, of course). * The underlying OS API generally has to be purely C-based, whereas a wrapper can make use of langauge features, such as C++ features in the case of ASIO. It is sometimes debatable whether it's a benefit to make use of C++ language features! But at least some people would consider it to be. Disadvantages: * As discussed above, job security!
- CapriciousCptl 6y ago
  Beej's guide still gets updated! I remember it from the early 2000s. https://beej.us/guide/bgnet/html/ https://beej.us/guide/bgnet/html/
- mynegation 6y ago
  I finally realized that “winsocks” name is a clever pun.
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    It didn’t help that the original logo was an orange and white windsock...
- zadkey 6y ago
  I also immediately thought of winsock.
megapatch 6y ago
This is the first time I felt that the title "Everything you need to know about..." actually was correct. I learned something and the text contained everything I ever might ever need to know about windsocks.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  > A metal basket (or so called swivel frame) is placed on top of the mast, which can rotate 180 degrees horizontally. Is there some reading of this that makes sense with the figure being 180° instead of 360°?
  - telesilla 6y ago
    15 minutes on a web search and I can't figure it out either. Any flight experts here?
    - ganafagol 6y ago
      https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Windsock https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Windsock "Windsocks must rotate freely around a vertical shaft" 10 seconds google for "windsock rotation". Second result right after the original article here on HN. And arguably more informative
      - telesilla 6y ago
        Yes thanks, it makes sense the posted article has an error in that regard and the link you posted is indeed more informative! Though on my search I learned that they probably originated in China or Japan, made of paper, to celebrate the birth of a child.
  - ganafagol 6y ago
    Even 360 degrees would be incorrect. That's how you would describe a construction that allows to do one full rotation and then stop. For example, tarsiers or owls can rotate their heads about 360 degrees. But a windsock needs to be able to rotate over and over and over without bound. That's distinctly different from 360 degrees.
kweks 6y ago
An easier way to "read" a windsock: count the bars until the windsock "breaks" / folds down, as per: https://patentyogi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Patentyogi_wind-speeds.jpg https://patentyogi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Patentyogi...
- justmyname 6y ago
  Exactly that is mentioned in the article.
  - kweks 6y ago
    To be fair, the article mentions reading via which elements are 'full', and I mention by the 'crease point'. When I started parachuting, I struggled to quickly read windsocks, because the definition of 'full' can be somewhat ambiguous (Is it mostly / somewhat / completely inflated, what if it's full now but wasn't three seconds ago..) I'd found: See where it 'breaks' provided a much better point of reference. Perhaps this will help others that shared my confusion :)
- oftenwrong 6y ago
  An infographic like this would have made that part of the article much more clear!
jylam 6y ago
"A metal basket (or so called swivel frame) is placed on top of the mast, which can rotate 180 degrees horizontally. " 180 degrees ? Isn't that 360 degrees ?
- FeeJai 6y ago
  No. Both are incorrect. It needs to be able to rotate freely, more than just one full turn (360 deg)
exabrial 6y ago
Argh. Why are knots still used? I imagine it's the same reason the USA can't go metric
- pcl 6y ago
  Well, a nautical mile is defined relative to a fundamental constant -- the circumference of the earth at the equator. This is objectively useful when at sea, and so I, for one, prefer it to either statute miles or kilometers. Here in Norway, people tend to talk about wind speed in meters per second. Happily, a knot is very close to a half a meter per second, so I'm not as lost as I'd be otherwise.
- app4soft 6y ago
  There is good video about "Imperial VS. Metric" posted by 'Real Engineering' two month ago.[0] > USA can't go metric SpaceX already use[1] metric: > Despite NASA's non-compulsory policy, commercial space manufacturer SpaceX currently designs its systems (e.g. Dragon and Falcon 9) using metric units. According F9 v1.0 Users Guide it seems like SpaceX mixed SI (preferred) and US units on same vehicle.[2] FTR, On May 1st, 2016 Elon Musk said[3] next: > Historical precedent. Mars vehicle will be metric. And its proved in Starship Users Guide v1.0, posted by SpaceX on March 2020.[4] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hid7EJkwDNk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hid7EJkwDNk [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_opposition#Government_compulsion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_opposition#Governm... [2] https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/1urk4k https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/1urk4k [3] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/726878573001216000 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/726878573001216000 [4] https://www.spacex.com/media/starship_users_guide_v1.pdf https://www.spacex.com/media/starship_users_guide_v1.pdf
madphilosopher 6y ago
My wife, who used to work in an airport tower, gave me this tip about reading windsocks: Imagine a tiny aircraft coming out of the mouth of the windsock---that's the direction a real aircraft will use to take off and land.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  But you might be off by up to 89 degrees. Depends how many runways you have :)
sshanky 6y ago
Most windsocks I see are solid orange, without stripes. I guess pilots “eyeball” where the bend is?
- cameldrv 6y ago
  You see the striped ones in Europe and the solid orange ones in the U.S. It's not a precision instrument. Windsocks wear out fairly quickly. It' gives you the direction fairly accurately, and the speed say +- 5 knots, which is adequate to choose a runway and have a good initial guess of how to correct for a crosswind. Once you've started your takeoff/approach, you make corrections based on the observed behavior of the plane, e.g. on final approach, if you drift a little to the right of centerline, you correct a little to the left.
- t0mas88 6y ago
  Pilots don't really care about where the bend is because it only shows up to 15 knots and it becomes mostly relevant for limitations at higher speeds. Most relevant visually is the general direction, changes in direction and whether it's half inflated or full, that's enough precision from a glance. The strength and gusts are also reported by the tower, they'll say something like "Wind 270 at 15 gusting 25, runway 23 cleared to land" which means the wind is coming from 270 degrees (West), at 15 knots with gusts up to 25. Then you have a general idea of the crosswind on the runway being about 12kt gusting just under 20ish from the right. Accurate enough to figure out whether a limit needs to be calculated.
kylecazar 6y ago
Didn't realize there was anything I needed to know about windsocks. Interesting, thanks!

100 points by oftenwrong 6y ago

gouggoug 6y ago

Another use: skydivers rely on wind socks as well to land against the wind

KineticLensman 6y ago
They also throw wind drift indicators out of the plane before commencing the jump run
- chrischattin 6y ago
  Wind drift indicators are more to determine the winds at altitude vs on the ground. We drop them right over the landing zone and watch where they land. Then, adjust the jump run, exit point, and pattern accordingly. So, not necessarily determining the direction of landing, because winds can be different on the ground and at altitude.

EarthLaunch 6y ago

Title in HN context gave me a flashback to the 90s: Everything you need to know about Winsocks [1] (windows sockets) 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winsock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winsock

anta40 6y ago
Me too. I thought this post is related to Windows network programming.
- Redheir 6y ago
  I thought the same thing.
unnouinceput 6y ago
90's? On desktop world this is pretty much still in use due to Windows being king on desktop. And if you master Winsock you can still rack in the big bucks even if you ignore everything else.
- the-dude 6y ago
  By doing what exactly?
- quietbritishjim 6y ago
  Why not use a wrapper API like ASIO?
  - soylentgraham 6y ago
    Why not just use the API? :)
    - quietbritishjim 6y ago
      Advantages: * Using a wrapper lets you use the same API on different platforms. This is not just for programs that are expected to compile and run on multiple platforms (although that is the main reason); it's also for developers who are expected to write programs for multiple platforms. * This potentially allows for a cleaner API, because the native OS one has to be careful about backwards compatibility, whereas wrapper APIs can be more carefree about it, at least initially. In the most extreme case, you can use a totally new library with a freshly-designed API. At this point ASIO has stabilised, but you can see it's substantially different from WinSock (albeit it has the same fundamental concepts, of course). * The underlying OS API generally has to be purely C-based, whereas a wrapper can make use of langauge features, such as C++ features in the case of ASIO. It is sometimes debatable whether it's a benefit to make use of C++ language features! But at least some people would consider it to be. Disadvantages: * As discussed above, job security!
CapriciousCptl 6y ago
Beej's guide still gets updated! I remember it from the early 2000s. https://beej.us/guide/bgnet/html/ https://beej.us/guide/bgnet/html/
mynegation 6y ago
I finally realized that “winsocks” name is a clever pun.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  It didn’t help that the original logo was an orange and white windsock...
zadkey 6y ago
I also immediately thought of winsock.

megapatch 6y ago

This is the first time I felt that the title "Everything you need to know about..." actually was correct. I learned something and the text contained everything I ever might ever need to know about windsocks.

sokoloff 6y ago
> A metal basket (or so called swivel frame) is placed on top of the mast, which can rotate 180 degrees horizontally. Is there some reading of this that makes sense with the figure being 180° instead of 360°?
- telesilla 6y ago
  15 minutes on a web search and I can't figure it out either. Any flight experts here?
  - ganafagol 6y ago
    https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Windsock https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Windsock "Windsocks must rotate freely around a vertical shaft" 10 seconds google for "windsock rotation". Second result right after the original article here on HN. And arguably more informative
    - telesilla 6y ago
      Yes thanks, it makes sense the posted article has an error in that regard and the link you posted is indeed more informative! Though on my search I learned that they probably originated in China or Japan, made of paper, to celebrate the birth of a child.
- ganafagol 6y ago
  Even 360 degrees would be incorrect. That's how you would describe a construction that allows to do one full rotation and then stop. For example, tarsiers or owls can rotate their heads about 360 degrees. But a windsock needs to be able to rotate over and over and over without bound. That's distinctly different from 360 degrees.

kweks 6y ago

An easier way to "read" a windsock: count the bars until the windsock "breaks" / folds down, as per: https://patentyogi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Patentyogi_wind-speeds.jpg https://patentyogi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Patentyogi...

justmyname 6y ago
Exactly that is mentioned in the article.
- kweks 6y ago
  To be fair, the article mentions reading via which elements are 'full', and I mention by the 'crease point'. When I started parachuting, I struggled to quickly read windsocks, because the definition of 'full' can be somewhat ambiguous (Is it mostly / somewhat / completely inflated, what if it's full now but wasn't three seconds ago..) I'd found: See where it 'breaks' provided a much better point of reference. Perhaps this will help others that shared my confusion :)
oftenwrong 6y ago
An infographic like this would have made that part of the article much more clear!

jylam 6y ago

"A metal basket (or so called swivel frame) is placed on top of the mast, which can rotate 180 degrees horizontally. " 180 degrees ? Isn't that 360 degrees ?

FeeJai 6y ago
No. Both are incorrect. It needs to be able to rotate freely, more than just one full turn (360 deg)

exabrial 6y ago

Argh. Why are knots still used? I imagine it's the same reason the USA can't go metric

pcl 6y ago
Well, a nautical mile is defined relative to a fundamental constant -- the circumference of the earth at the equator. This is objectively useful when at sea, and so I, for one, prefer it to either statute miles or kilometers. Here in Norway, people tend to talk about wind speed in meters per second. Happily, a knot is very close to a half a meter per second, so I'm not as lost as I'd be otherwise.
app4soft 6y ago
There is good video about "Imperial VS. Metric" posted by 'Real Engineering' two month ago.[0] > USA can't go metric SpaceX already use[1] metric: > Despite NASA's non-compulsory policy, commercial space manufacturer SpaceX currently designs its systems (e.g. Dragon and Falcon 9) using metric units. According F9 v1.0 Users Guide it seems like SpaceX mixed SI (preferred) and US units on same vehicle.[2] FTR, On May 1st, 2016 Elon Musk said[3] next: > Historical precedent. Mars vehicle will be metric. And its proved in Starship Users Guide v1.0, posted by SpaceX on March 2020.[4] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hid7EJkwDNk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hid7EJkwDNk [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_opposition#Government_compulsion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_opposition#Governm... [2] https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/1urk4k https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/1urk4k [3] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/726878573001216000 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/726878573001216000 [4] https://www.spacex.com/media/starship_users_guide_v1.pdf https://www.spacex.com/media/starship_users_guide_v1.pdf

madphilosopher 6y ago

My wife, who used to work in an airport tower, gave me this tip about reading windsocks: Imagine a tiny aircraft coming out of the mouth of the windsock---that's the direction a real aircraft will use to take off and land.

Scoundreller 6y ago
But you might be off by up to 89 degrees. Depends how many runways you have :)

sshanky 6y ago

Most windsocks I see are solid orange, without stripes. I guess pilots “eyeball” where the bend is?

cameldrv 6y ago
You see the striped ones in Europe and the solid orange ones in the U.S. It's not a precision instrument. Windsocks wear out fairly quickly. It' gives you the direction fairly accurately, and the speed say +- 5 knots, which is adequate to choose a runway and have a good initial guess of how to correct for a crosswind. Once you've started your takeoff/approach, you make corrections based on the observed behavior of the plane, e.g. on final approach, if you drift a little to the right of centerline, you correct a little to the left.
t0mas88 6y ago
Pilots don't really care about where the bend is because it only shows up to 15 knots and it becomes mostly relevant for limitations at higher speeds. Most relevant visually is the general direction, changes in direction and whether it's half inflated or full, that's enough precision from a glance. The strength and gusts are also reported by the tower, they'll say something like "Wind 270 at 15 gusting 25, runway 23 cleared to land" which means the wind is coming from 270 degrees (West), at 15 knots with gusts up to 25. Then you have a general idea of the crosswind on the runway being about 12kt gusting just under 20ish from the right. Accurate enough to figure out whether a limit needs to be calculated.

kylecazar 6y ago

Didn't realize there was anything I needed to know about windsocks. Interesting, thanks!