9 ms·

Denisovan DNA found in cave on Tibetan Plateau

120 points by etiam 6y ago

Shivetya 6y ago
Since I had to look them up, they are very early humans. See quote and link below from wikipedia. The Denisovans or Denisova hominins ( /dɪˈniːsəvə/ di-NEE-sə-və) are an extinct species or subspecies of archaic human that ranged across Asia during the Lower and Middle Paleolithic. Denisovans are known from few remains, and, consequently, most of what is known about them comes from DNA evidence. Pending consensus on their taxonomic status, they have been referred to as Homo denisova, H. altaiensis, or H. sapiens denisova. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovan
- saas_sam 6y ago
  Very early but also super advanced. Check out the jewelry they made with precision-drilled holes etc: https://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/f0100-stone-bracelet-is-oldest-ever-found-in-the-world/ https://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/f0100-s...
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  You can think of them as similar to neanderthals, from what I understand -- a separate species of humans that lived concurrently with modern humans. (Though, denisovans lived in an entirely different region.)
  - Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
    denisovans and neanderthals probably interacted
sradman 6y ago
The abstract from the paper Denisovan DNA in Late Pleistocene sediments from Baishiya Karst Cave on the Tibetan Plateau [1]: > A late Middle Pleistocene mandible from Baishiya Karst Cave (BKC) on the Tibetan Plateau has been inferred to be from a Denisovan, an Asian hominin related to Neanderthals, on the basis of an amino acid substitution in its collagen. Here we describe the stratigraphy, chronology, and mitochondrial DNA extracted from the sediments in BKC. We recover Denisovan mitochondrial DNA from sediments deposited ~100 thousand and ~60 thousand years ago (ka) and possibly as recently as ~45 ka. The long-term occupation of BKC by Denisovans suggests that they may have adapted to life at high altitudes and may have contributed such adaptations to modern humans on the Tibetan Plateau. [1] https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6516/584 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6516/584
pachico 6y ago
Sometimes I wonder how things would be if we had more than one hominid species in the world and I get trapped in fascinating hypothesis of all sorts. Then I remember how we treat animals in general and it makes me think we'd be destined to have a dominating species making all others miserable and I stop thinking those hypothesis are so fascinating. Just thinking out loud.
- msla 6y ago
  I think it would be an unstable situation unless the hominid species were somehow incompatible enough to prevent cross-breeding; otherwise, what would happen is what evidently did happen, which is that all of the hominids cross-bred and produced a single remaining phenotype.
- lordnacho 6y ago
  Just because science says Denisovans are a subspecies of humans doesn't mean human societies would see it like that. Women have only been allowed to vote for about 100 years. It's not that long ago that you could go to an advanced country where people could be bought and sold. We are good at defining the boundary socially, rather than scientifically. Who knows, perhaps we'll also decide that eating animals is wrong sometime. Certainly, there's some hope in that violence has lessened over recent decades.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
    > perhaps we'll also decide that eating animals is wrong sometime. At some point, there's the very real possibility that vat-grown meat may become a main staple. It sounds a bit icky, but think about it: We could have flavors and textures of meat that were never available in nature (and maybe also some horrific mistakes). It's entirely possible that we could have "top-shelf vat" brands that sell for more than farm-raised. Of course, the biomass to create the foodstuff needs to come from somewhere...Soylent Green? I wonder how this would affect some vegetarians.
    - pachico 6y ago
hinkley 6y ago
I always wonder with archaeology how often we are finding remains in their natural habitat versus 'comedy of errors' situations. Did those dinosaurs really live near mud flats, or were they driven there by severe drought followed by torrential rains? Or was it part of a migration route driven by repeating cycles of drought and rain? (the fact that they are under many, many layers of sedimentary rock suggests the latter) Similarly, were hominids living in that cave a plan A, plan B, or plan C? Plan B could be a "Helm's Deep" situation, where you go there when something goes wrong. While Plan C could be an 'any port in a storm' situation where unexpected weather caught you in an area you did not mean to stay. Plan A might have been a biologically active region where life devours anything that stops moving for too long, the same way we have trouble finding evidence of these huge cultures in Central and South America.
- ummonk 6y ago
  There is also just the question of what kinds of conditions are conducive to preserving fossil remains.
  - vmception 6y ago
    Thats basically the only consideration. Some future civilization is going to find an American frozen on Mt Everest and think that was our favorite habitat.
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
      They'll probably find the trash first.
      - dahfizz 6y ago
        And in keeping with anthropologist tradition, they will assume all the trash was part of some significant religious ceremony.
        JohnJamesRambo 6y ago
evo_9 6y ago
More info on the Denisovan's: https://www.history.com/topics/pre-history/denisovans https://www.history.com/topics/pre-history/denisovans
colechristensen 6y ago
Yeti?
FleursDuMal 6y ago
It's interesting that both the Denisovans and the Neanderthals were named after religious individuals. The Denisovan remains were found in the Denisova cave, Denis being a Russian Orthodox hermit who lived there. The word Neanderthal comes from the Neander valley, which was called after a German minister who enjoyed walking the area and writing hymns.

120 points by etiam 6y ago

Since I had to look them up, they are very early humans. See quote and link below from wikipedia. The Denisovans or Denisova hominins ( /dɪˈniːsəvə/ di-NEE-sə-və) are an extinct species or subspecies of archaic human that ranged across Asia during the Lower and Middle Paleolithic. Denisovans are known from few remains, and, consequently, most of what is known about them comes from DNA evidence. Pending consensus on their taxonomic status, they have been referred to as Homo denisova, H. altaiensis, or H. sapiens denisova. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovan

saas_sam 6y ago
Very early but also super advanced. Check out the jewelry they made with precision-drilled holes etc: https://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/f0100-stone-bracelet-is-oldest-ever-found-in-the-world/ https://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/f0100-s...
Pfhreak 6y ago
You can think of them as similar to neanderthals, from what I understand -- a separate species of humans that lived concurrently with modern humans. (Though, denisovans lived in an entirely different region.)
- Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
  denisovans and neanderthals probably interacted

sradman 6y ago

The abstract from the paper Denisovan DNA in Late Pleistocene sediments from Baishiya Karst Cave on the Tibetan Plateau [1]: > A late Middle Pleistocene mandible from Baishiya Karst Cave (BKC) on the Tibetan Plateau has been inferred to be from a Denisovan, an Asian hominin related to Neanderthals, on the basis of an amino acid substitution in its collagen. Here we describe the stratigraphy, chronology, and mitochondrial DNA extracted from the sediments in BKC. We recover Denisovan mitochondrial DNA from sediments deposited ~100 thousand and ~60 thousand years ago (ka) and possibly as recently as ~45 ka. The long-term occupation of BKC by Denisovans suggests that they may have adapted to life at high altitudes and may have contributed such adaptations to modern humans on the Tibetan Plateau. [1] https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6516/584 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6516/584

pachico 6y ago

Sometimes I wonder how things would be if we had more than one hominid species in the world and I get trapped in fascinating hypothesis of all sorts. Then I remember how we treat animals in general and it makes me think we'd be destined to have a dominating species making all others miserable and I stop thinking those hypothesis are so fascinating. Just thinking out loud.

msla 6y ago
I think it would be an unstable situation unless the hominid species were somehow incompatible enough to prevent cross-breeding; otherwise, what would happen is what evidently did happen, which is that all of the hominids cross-bred and produced a single remaining phenotype.
lordnacho 6y ago
Just because science says Denisovans are a subspecies of humans doesn't mean human societies would see it like that. Women have only been allowed to vote for about 100 years. It's not that long ago that you could go to an advanced country where people could be bought and sold. We are good at defining the boundary socially, rather than scientifically. Who knows, perhaps we'll also decide that eating animals is wrong sometime. Certainly, there's some hope in that violence has lessened over recent decades.
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
  > perhaps we'll also decide that eating animals is wrong sometime. At some point, there's the very real possibility that vat-grown meat may become a main staple. It sounds a bit icky, but think about it: We could have flavors and textures of meat that were never available in nature (and maybe also some horrific mistakes). It's entirely possible that we could have "top-shelf vat" brands that sell for more than farm-raised. Of course, the biomass to create the foodstuff needs to come from somewhere...Soylent Green? I wonder how this would affect some vegetarians.
  - pachico 6y ago

hinkley 6y ago

I always wonder with archaeology how often we are finding remains in their natural habitat versus 'comedy of errors' situations. Did those dinosaurs really live near mud flats, or were they driven there by severe drought followed by torrential rains? Or was it part of a migration route driven by repeating cycles of drought and rain? (the fact that they are under many, many layers of sedimentary rock suggests the latter) Similarly, were hominids living in that cave a plan A, plan B, or plan C? Plan B could be a "Helm's Deep" situation, where you go there when something goes wrong. While Plan C could be an 'any port in a storm' situation where unexpected weather caught you in an area you did not mean to stay. Plan A might have been a biologically active region where life devours anything that stops moving for too long, the same way we have trouble finding evidence of these huge cultures in Central and South America.

ummonk 6y ago
There is also just the question of what kinds of conditions are conducive to preserving fossil remains.
- vmception 6y ago
  Thats basically the only consideration. Some future civilization is going to find an American frozen on Mt Everest and think that was our favorite habitat.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
    They'll probably find the trash first.
    - dahfizz 6y ago
      And in keeping with anthropologist tradition, they will assume all the trash was part of some significant religious ceremony.
      - JohnJamesRambo 6y ago

evo_9 6y ago

More info on the Denisovan's: https://www.history.com/topics/pre-history/denisovans https://www.history.com/topics/pre-history/denisovans

colechristensen 6y ago

Yeti?

FleursDuMal 6y ago

It's interesting that both the Denisovans and the Neanderthals were named after religious individuals. The Denisovan remains were found in the Denisova cave, Denis being a Russian Orthodox hermit who lived there. The word Neanderthal comes from the Neander valley, which was called after a German minister who enjoyed walking the area and writing hymns.