20 ms·

Netflix raises monthly charges for U.S. subscribers

146 points by BigBalli 6y ago

vsskanth 6y ago
I wonder if it is possible to make a "meta" service where you can rotate Netflix, HBO, Prime Video etc. every 3 months
- tehwebguy 6y ago
  This is how I do it now, sign up and then insta cancel. That way I know the timeline and plan to watch accordingly, and then when it comes up expired on login I decide to resubscribe or try another one. Can only watch a few things concurrently anyway!
  - hugocbp 6y ago
    Basically the same that I'm doing. If I am in the middle of something in one, I'll just renew it. Works really well. Usually by the time you go back to the first service, there are some pretty interesting new things that might slip by if you just kept that one.
  - suyash 6y ago
    So do you use new email every time you re-subscribe or use the same email? This trick can also be used for free-trial services but that definitely needs new email address.
    - tehwebguy 6y ago
      If there is a free trial offer at the time I’ll take it but I don’t game the offers or anything, it saves so much money already.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
    Can you repeat it using the same credit card?
    - tehwebguy 6y ago
      I’m not getting anything for free, just stopping the subscription right after I start it so it’s only a month at a time.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- fastball 6y ago
  Maybe AT&T or someone could make a service where they take a bunch of different entertainment providers and bundle them all together.
  - airstrike 6y ago
    Because they bring it all together in one package, maybe call it something like "Direct Video"
- vmception 6y ago
  Good strategy, why would you pay separately for Prime Video when it comes with Prime in general?
- bonestamp2 6y ago
  Ya, we currently subscribe to pretty much all of them and that's already excessive, but it becomes more so as the prices keep going up. So, we'll definitely cancel some of them soon, just out of principal and a service to help would be useful. I don't even need it to activate/deactivate my accounts. The real benefit to me would be tracking and notifying me when the shows I follow have a new season available. Then when I exhaust whichever platform I'm currently subscribed to, I'll know which one to subscribe to next. Also, tracking the Series and Movies that I want to watch would be helpful, especially the ones that can potentially appear/disappear from different streaming services.
  - jshen 6y ago
    Apple does a lot of these things if you sub through them. But next you all will complain that Apple takes a cut. This thread can be summarized as, “we want to pay very little money, and spend very little time, to get lots of great content”. On the flip side, the VC model of gaining market share by charging less than is required to sustain the business is an unsustainable model that sets unrealistic expectations.
    - bonestamp2 6y ago
      Maybe you misunderstood me. I currently subscribe to: Youtube TV, Netflix, Disney+, Apple TV+, Prime and HBO MAX. I spend more on streaming services than I did on cable. I'm not asking for them to lower their prices; I'm not even asking that they don't raise their prices. I'm simply saying that when they raise the price it makes me think about the value proposition and I am reminded that I'm paying for far more content than I can possibly consume. That's my fault and nobody else's. I don't need a service that rotates my subscriptions as suggested above. Rather, if someone wants to create a service for cable cutters, I'd like a central place to curate what I like, what I've seen, what I'd like to see and know when that content becomes available. I agree that Apple does some of that, so does netflix, and HBO and some of the others... and I do use those features, but there is still an opportunity for someone to create a service that is centralized and provides more depth. For example, I'd like to go a little deeper than a thumbs up/down when rating Netflix content. I'd like to have more than one playlist on Apple, Prime, etc. I'd like to know when a hard to find movie/show gets licensed and will be available on a streaming service, etc. So, no... I don't want to pay very little money for lots of content. I just want to rebalance what I do pay for to match what I have time to watch. No, I don't want to spend very little time... I actually want to spend more time curating.
- sschueller 6y ago
  A service that combines all these together... You mean cable tv... we have come full circle...
  - uofo 6y ago
    It was a joke
- SilasX 6y ago
  I'd say the endgame for content is for everyone to just pay some fee (tax?), regardless of how much you watch, and it gets apportioned over the providers of whatever content you end up viewing. That gets the incentives right all around.
  - SomewhatLikely 6y ago
    I suppose this is how Youtube premium works. I think they have trouble attracting higher cost content though. I'd prefer if they had a higher tier where you can pay more and get a quality of content that matches what major networks can do.
  - ojbyrne 6y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_...
    - SilasX 6y ago
      No, that's not the same model, because the different TV shows aren't paid by ratings.
  - listenallyall 6y ago
    so, like, cable tv?
    - SilasX 6y ago
      No, that's not the same model, your payments have no relation to what you watch, and, to the extent that you do, it's largely ad funded.
      - listenallyall 6y ago
        No relation? Fees to content providers are indeed allocated by their popularity, in aggregate. It's why ESPN gets paid (by the cable company) much more than other channels. The only difference in your proposal is the extremely inefficient calculation of millions of individual persons' viewing hours and moving pennies around for each.
notyourwork 6y ago
We’ve come full circle sadly. YouTube TV raised fares with more channels I don’t watch or want. Netflix increases rates and further creates walled garden. Everyone wanting to cut the cord isn’t better off then we were 5 years ago.
- fastball 6y ago
  How does increasing rates further create a walled garden?
- kevinmchugh 6y ago
  I'm much better off. I can take my subscriptions with me, wherever I go. I can subscribe for a month at a time. I can cancel online. I can share subscriptions.
  - kypro 6y ago
    Give it a few more years.
    - kazinator 6y ago
      Give it a few more years, and we will be even better off.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- xapata 6y ago
  Except we have fewer advertisements interrupting shows.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    Smart TVs can pause live TV so you just buffer up 5 minutes and skip the ads.
- hugocbp 6y ago
chanfest22 6y ago
Seems long overdue given the value that most users are getting from Netflix plus the relative inability for most traditional Hollywood studios to produce films at previous rates for the foreseeable future.
- centimeter 6y ago
  The value I got from netflix cratered after every network started their own exclusive paid service.
  - vertis 6y ago
    This was my reaction as well. How has Netflix delivered more value when shows that I could previously watch on Netflix are no longer there. They keep cancelling shows that I like as well.
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
  Apart from a few notable exceptions (like The Queen's Gambit), there is an enormous difference in quality between Netflix and Hollywood productions. Netflix redefined the meaning of 'pulp'.
  - tptacek 6y ago
    (A) I don't think that's empirically true; it's easy to rattle off high-quality Netflix content, which is why so many people subscribe to it. (B) I don't think that's theoretically true either, in that Netflix and "Hollywood" both get content the same way: by buying it from production companies.
  - seg_lol 6y ago
    There is lots of room at the bottom.
  - fastball 6y ago
    A few? Off the top of my head: - The Queen's Gambit - Narcos - House of Cards - Russian Doll - Ozark - Stranger Things - Tiger King - Dear White People - The Witcher - The Umbrella Academy - The Crown - Space Force And that's just TV shows. There are a lot of films they've put out that are very good as well.
huntermeyer 6y ago
Subscriber growth has stalled. So they increase the rates on existing customers.
- mmcconnell1618 6y ago
  Sounds like a good way to get people to cancel and create a downward spiral. I feel like Netflix just recently raised rates. Maybe it was a year ago but feels like yesterday.
  - res0nat0r 6y ago
    Netflix has underpriced its service forever, it really should be more expensive than it always has been. They've anchored expectations to a low number now, so it's hard to change.
    - rightbyte 6y ago
      Are they under-priced though? How much does the average subscriber watch? For the price of Netflix for a month I can rent two/three movies and choose whichever I want. Netflix doesn't provide much value on top of that. Paying in advance for a quite limited movie selection. It would only be their series that provide value for the money, if you like them ...
      - aaomidi 6y ago
        And considering that a lot of shows that get a strong fanbase of followers get cancelled, I don't think their price is "too low." It especially doesn't make a lot of sense to have "tiers" of subscription. Why would you allow your users to get a worse experience from you? That seems like a good way to associate "lower quality" with your brand.
      - paxys 6y ago
        Netflix is on for several hours a day in the average household. It's easy to forget that it was perfectly normal to pay $150+/mo for cable back in the day. Probably more with all the hidden fees and add-ons.
nostromo 6y ago
Netflix's current trajectory makes me sad. It reminds me of cable TV now: cheaply produced shlock, with less and less premium TV. The last thing I watched that was truly wonderful on Netflix was Mindhunter -- which I heard was canceled by Netflix because it's too expensive. Meanwhile there's a dozen or more new "reality TV" knock offs seemingly every week. We've switched most of our viewing to HBO now -- it has a lot of fantastic content, like Raised by Wolves, Lovecraft Country, His Dark Materials, Chernobyl, etc. And they actually stand behind their product because they believe in it -- they aren't constantly pulling the rug out from under their viewers like Netflix does.
- OnlineGladiator 6y ago
  > The last thing I watched that was truly wonderful on Netflix was Mindhunter -- which I heard was canceled by Netflix because it's too expensive. Nnnnnooooo! https://www.wired.com/story/why-netflix-keeps-canceling-shows-after-just-2-seasons/ https://www.wired.com/story/why-netflix-keeps-canceling-show... I honestly consider this the same as Google. They're so focused on insane metrics they don't realize that by killing everything new - good and bad, people are just going to give up on the company entirely because their reputations sour over time. I mean why am I going to try something new from Google just to find out they're cancelling it in 2 years? Likewise, why would I invest my time in a new Netflix series just to find out it's cancelled after 2 seasons? The true problem is it's a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - kace91 6y ago
    There was an interview somewhere with Satya Nadella where he mentioned that one of the things he had tried to change for Microsoft was to stop chasing immediate metrics because most long term advantages of companies (like good image) aren't measurable in the short term. Lately it feels like that's the issue with most tech companies, they will do anything to see the uptick in random metrics (engagement, etc) without realizing they are creating miserable experiences by destroying other areas that are less measurable. Yes, I'll click more in your button if you place it full screen over the main content of your app. No, it's not making me more engage in what you're showing me, it's just forcing me to go through some hoops and now I hate you for it.
standardUser 6y ago
I share various streaming and news subscriptions with a small network of friends and family. I pay for 7 services myself and have access to 5 others. (5 television, 3 music, 3 news, 1 podcast) The messed up part is, that's still only a sampling of the services that are out there! But most of the remaining are regional newspapers and niche streaming video services.
xoxoy 6y ago
The Office getting yanked end of year will be a major unsub event. I don’t think this will be.
- cheschire 6y ago
  Some things are just better to me on DVD to be honest, and The Office is definitely one of those. The extras, the commentary tracks, it's just been a better experience for me than on netflix.
  - hombre_fatal 6y ago
    I don't understand these supposed single-series diehards like The Office fans that make their cancellation ever known every time Netflix comes up. If you're obsessed with a single show, isn't it time to own the whole thing digitally? Why would you even settle for needing an internet connection and service subscription to watch the one show you care about? It's like being annoyed that Scribd stopped hosting your favorite book. Reminds me of the small brain panel of that galaxy brain meme.
    - buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
      > Why would you even settle for needing an internet connection and service subscription to watch the one show you care about? Because I have half a dozen devices, all which get replaced every few years, that all need to be able to access that show. How do I get my show on all those devices without an internet connection and without taking a bunch of my time managing it?
      - hombre_fatal 6y ago
        If you really wanted that, you can get a Plex server up and running which would likely suit you better since a single show is your deal breaker. Might as well control the deal. But I'd question the need to get TV on all of your six devices just like I'd question the need to get Twitter and Candy Crush on all of them. Maybe get it on 1-2 (laptop, TV usb stick) and learn to be okay with not having 24/7 access to TV. You'd be happier. As some ideas for ways to swap out TV with something more fulfilling, I recently decided to randomly consume some Youtube courses on the works of T. S. Eliot and Plato, of course reading them on my own alongside. It's not necessarily as stimulating as captivating TV or methamphetamine, but I feel like I'm growing, being challenged, and it's damn sure fulfilling. Also gives me something interesting to talk about. (I chose those authors because an older friend of mine knows about them and likes talking about them.)
pgrote 6y ago
The golden age of streaming has come to an end. There are no longer streaming services offering a wide selection of shows and movies, but silos of self-produced or owned content. In the next 12-24 months it'll be obvious the way to consume media will change from a monthly netflix/apple/cbs/peacock/hbo/anyone else fee to a 30 day run. People will sign up and churn based on what they want to see. Services will pop up around this and handle your memberships for you. Those service will become the new cable companies. Netflix is still a good value for the money charged.
- umvi 6y ago
  I switched to that model a while ago. I refuse to pay for Netflix/Disney+/Hulu/Crunchyroll simultaneously. So I queue up shows I want to watch on a given platform, buy a month of that platform, and then switch to the next platform in the queue the next month. It requires more overhead (i.e. manually cancelling and re-enabling services), but it saves probably $200-300+ per year vs. having 4 simultaneous subscriptions.
  - kgwxd 6y ago
    I'm sure the next step will be to require annual subscriptions. Amazon Prime has already normalized it.
    - gruez 6y ago
      >Amazon Prime has already normalized it. many people might have prime on an annual basis but amazon seems content with offering prime on a monthly basis as well. In fact the only way to get prime video (without prime) is monthly. https://www.amazon.com/amazonprime https://www.amazon.com/amazonprime
      - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
        Indeed. I historically have gotten Prime for a month around Christmas shopping season each year, and that's been more than enough Prime for me.
larrik 6y ago
Seems pretty risky to announce this the day before the Mandalorian comes out...
- Rapzid 6y ago
  Time to re-activate my Disney+ by the sounds of it.
justinzollars 6y ago
I miss low prices and high quality. Netflix has lost its way.
sschueller 6y ago
Is it wise to raise prices now when you have more people watching than every and more people who can not pay more because of this pandemic? Ok, it's just $2 but still...
dorfsmay 6y ago
Anybody else hit this bug with Netflix: You have a perfectly valid Credit Card, you try to re-start your account (or maybe create a new account), and you get a "payment form not valid". Your bank says Netflix isn't even trying to authorize the payment, netflix support says they know there is no issue with your card, the issue is on their side, but they cannot fix it, the only proposed solution is to buy a netflix gift card... https://twitter.com/dorfsmay/status/1315402870661902336 https://twitter.com/dorfsmay/status/1315402870661902336 This totally puzzles me. They have a bug that I am sure technical people would jump in and solve in a matters of hours, they have tech support people who understand the issue, but the company has provided no way to connect the two!
- judge2020 6y ago
  Netflix sometimes blacklists cards to prevent people from continuously getting free trials on new accounts, although it seems to be random/based on a list of heuristics that only a handful of employees know.
  - canucker2016 6y ago
    then this bug may disappear for those in the USA since Netflix doesn't do free trials in the USA anymore. see https://gizmodo.com/netflix-thinks-its-so-great-you-dont-need-even-need-to-1845363221 https://gizmodo.com/netflix-thinks-its-so-great-you-dont-nee...
Someone1234 6y ago
The key differentiator between the future and past, isn't strictly cheaper prices, it is flexibility. Satellite/Cable had a huge lock-in factor due to equipment contracts and even monopoly/duopoly issues. A lot of consumers found themselves either hard or soft locked in as prices continued to rise/quality declined (and many still are). The future is different not because content is guaranteed to be inexpensive, but because competition can exist and users get the choice (including choosing nothing for periods). In this case Netflix is raising prices which sucks, but the market is rich in high quality competitors, some of which are cheaper.
ksec 6y ago
Disney, Amazon, Netflix, Apple TV+. Apple intends to "give away" Apple TV+ for free with their bundle Apple One. ( It is sort of included in the bundle as offering value ) Amazon Prime Video is ~85% of US household and increasing. And again it is included for free as part of Amazon Prime. And it is working hard on its intentional expansion. Disney - I dont think any family with kids is ever going to cancel that. Not to mention their low price. Netflix, with all their quality originals and their confidence to raise prices seems to suggest there are little to no lost of subscribers. I wonder how this is going to end.
- Someone1234 6y ago
  > Apple intends to "give away" Apple TV+ for free with their bundle Apple One. They aren't giving it away and it isn't free. In fact Apple One is so expensive you need to be paying for most of the included services already for it to make financial sense (and several of those services aren't popular by themselves).
gandalfian 6y ago
Some people cancel and then once it has stopped reactivate useing their VPN to renew in Turkey or Argentina at much cheaper rates. Long as they already have a verified payment card on their account.
- pivo 6y ago
  But doesn't that change, or limit, the content that's available to them?
  - skinnymuch 6y ago
    Content you see is based on where you are, not where you’re paying.
tdburn 6y ago
Cuties led to a lot of cancellations
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  Including mine, that was upsetting. Also, the shows I watch, such as Narcos, Stranger Things, etc. are released once every 2 years and I realized I had not used the service in a while.
- axaxs 6y ago
  Yeah, I didn't cancel though I really felt like it. But now with this price raise I can't help but feel like I'm funding that trash, which doesn't sit well with me. /soapbox
jaimex2 6y ago
No idea why the share price increased, clearly this is going to make people cancel their service. Netflix wont be around for many more years. The critical mistake was switching their servers to AWS, you never pay your competitor even if it reduces your costs.
- herpderperator 6y ago
  When companies raise prices the stock goes up because they are anticipated to increase revenue without additional costs. It's a $1-$2 increase. People are unlikely to cancel en masse otherwise they wouldn't have done it.
  - tsjq 6y ago
    "slowly boil the frog"
  - jaimex2 6y ago
    Depends how close to a round number the price is I would imagine. Going from $10 to $12 has a bigger psychological effect than say $12 to $14
- jiveturkey 6y ago
  The critical mistake was made very very long ago, when they didn't pursue becoming a platform aggressively, at all other cost. They decided they want a big cut and were brazen to think they owned enough mindshare to draw all the eyeballs. Always pursue dominance. Sow, sow, sow, and more sow. Then reap. Amazon was already an object lesson for them, but they ignored it. In hindsight, of course it went that way. Have you seen the culture deck? They've been on AWS forever haven't they? Long before prime video. I very much doubt that it reduces their cost, even at the pricing they must get. It lets them focus their effort. Ok lastly you're wrong on their longevity. Yes some people will cancel but the vast majority will not, and they will see more revenue. I don't 'get' Netflix (the content sucks and they are like Google -- your favorite show is likely to get canned, simply because the very best shows are almost by definition "uniquely" appealing and TV, er streaming content is too expensive to generate many such shows) but every remote has a NFLX button. In the end there will be netflix and disney.
rkhassen9 6y ago
Cancelled today.
lostphilosopher 6y ago
Haven't read every comment, but I read quite a few and I'm shocked that people are thinking the new world of streaming is "the same" as cable. What I get from streaming that I didn't get from cable is: no commercials and the ability to watch on demand without recording or other hassle. I would pay more than cable prices for those two features. I don't except to pay one company and get all companies' products - in any context. You don't get Whoppers at McDonald's, Ford doesn't sell Toyotas. Intermediaries create their own islands of exclusivity (you can only get X on Door Dash and Y on Uber Eats). What I'm worried about is streaming services not letting me pay to not have to watch commercials. Last thought - if you think there's "nothing good" on platform Z you may be burning through content way too fast. I don't think we can or should put out endless hours of great new TV content aligned to each person's tastes.
- cambalache 6y ago
  > no commercials So far, but still Hulu shows commercial in some plans, and netflix shove their "commercials" . Expect it to get worst. > ability to watch on demand without recording or other hassle. You still have hassle , you need to move from one application to the other, hardly convenient.
  - nucleardog 6y ago
    Signed up for one of the “extras” on Prime because they had a show I really wanted to watch. Was like an extra $15/mo. Commercials every 5 minutes. And they clearly didn’t have much ad inventory because it was the same damn commercial every time. Canceled the subscription before it went to paid... about an hour after I signed up. Torrented the show instead. Fuck all of that.
spirobel 6y ago
I never understood the hype around netflix. Its very low quality "entertainment". Cable tv for "young people".
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  If you can't find things to watch on Netflix, you either haven't looked/tried or you have such narrow interests that the other services aren't going to please you either. Maybe since you mentioned "young people", you're looking for Gunsmoke reruns?
  - spirobel 6y ago
    what is "gunsmoke reruns" I am 27 years old,hombre :-)
  - spirobel 6y ago
    I dont think I have narrow interests. I just think Netflix is extremely shallow garbage entertainment. Similar to watching TV. I was forced on serveral social occasions to watch netflix. I would be alright with it like i am alright with people watching TV. But people pretend like this is the greatest thing ever sooo much better than watching TV. Its a very undignified ritual you have to go through to do even more undignifed stuff.
arminiusreturns 6y ago
Netflix stopped working on linux for me a few months ago. I finally figured out it was probably a wildvine related issue (and if you don't know what wildvine is, omg what a rabbit hole), and Netflix just doesn't care to fix it because fuck linux users I guess. Fuck netflix, I guess. HBO did the same thing... Showtime still works, and I finally gave into Amazon, on which I can watch my HBO shows. I think Amazon is going to come out much better in the streaming wars than many anticipate.
- jiggawatts 6y ago
  It doesn't work well on Windows either unless you have a specific Intel CPU, a specific GPU, and a new monitor. They downgrade from 4K to 1080p silently. I'm tempted to see if the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission would smack them around a little for false advertising...
frankydp 6y ago
The Netflix shock jock level of extremist one-upmanship outrageous content(politics, horror, children cartoons) has lead to my cancelation. Along with functionally absent parental controls. Price is irrelevant.
usaphp 6y ago
It looks like in the end we will end up back where we started with cable TV package deals. For example - I just want to watch European football and to do that right now I have two options, either pay almost $70/month for fubo.tv (which was just 20$ before it started adding crap channels and was focused on football only), or I have to sign up for CBS to watch champions league, fanatiz to watch bein sports, peacock to watch some premier league games, NBC cable to watch other premier league games, and espn plus to watch Italian and French league, ridiculous.
vinni2 6y ago
I share my Netflix account with 3 other family members. It can’t get more cheaper than that. I subscribe to HBO once in a while. I got 1 year free Apple TV+ after buying a Mac. So my monthly streaming expenses for now is 3€.
danielscrubs 6y ago
The writing has been on the wall for some time: 1. Grading system changed from 1-5 to 1-2 (thumbs up/down). They thought that the users where full of crap when rating. I do believe some bosses just looked "bad" when buying in the next Adam Sandler movie. This started a cozy culture where no one in Netflix was wrong. Recommendation engine becomes comically bad, even with the best and the brightest. 2. They started to buy everything under the sun. South park made an episode about it even. All the comedians got their own stand up specials. It was now way easier to get a top score (thumbs up). Bosses where happy. 3. As they no longer focuses on quality which they no longer can measure (measuring time watched and churn is not that useful!), they start to strive for quantity. Which is expensive, very expensive. I guess that in the next decade Netflix will become the next Comcast and cost 35 USD per month, and it all started in an innocent change to the grading system.
- tpetry 6y ago
  Youtube also removed the star rating a long time ago because people to rate the extremes: either 1 star or all 5, you don‘t get the benefit of the fine rating system if your users are not capable of rating things correctly
  - danielscrubs 6y ago
    Which people? A percentage of people? Those extremes are only extreme for people wanting a bell curve. They had more quality in their data but they where incapable of using it because they like to take averages and so they blame the users.
    - 1123581321 6y ago
      No, they have higher quality data now because they have twice as much engagement with the thumbs system, and users weren’t rating 2-4 stars in a useful way. Losing the review comments was a shame but they were infrequently viewed. As much as it offends my sensibilities, sometimes the best move is to simplify a feature so that improved usage makes up for the loss of the complications.
- 6y ago
commonturtle 6y ago
Tbh I still think Netflix is a very good deal. For $14/month you get access to a huge selection of movies and TV shows that you can watch with no commercials. Where I'm from a ticket to the cinema costs about that much (excluding popcorn) and will plough you with 10 minutes of commercials and movie trailers for the privilege. People will happily pay $30 per person for dinner in a restaurant multiple times a month, but are reluctant to pay $14/month for access to a huge library of endless entertainment. Why?
hiram112 6y ago
Glad they kept the $9 single stream price. If I do go back to streaming service, that's a fair price. As a single person, I've watched as most of these services have increased their prices for single users but made it much more reasonable for a family. Why am I paying the same price for Amazon Prime as a family of 5 with a 3K square house who orders from Amazon 2x/day and watches 5x the video? Why am I paying $70/month for cable for maybe 7 hours/week when some family is watching 100 hours combined per week? Why am I still paying a premium for AT&T post-paid mobile service when a family who is constantly adding and changing new lines for the kids gets a brand new IPhone or two each year during their upgrade deals, yet AT&T won't ever offer an existing user a discount on a new phone? Same with Spotify, Apple Music, HBO, etc.

146 points by BigBalli 6y ago

vsskanth 6y ago

I wonder if it is possible to make a "meta" service where you can rotate Netflix, HBO, Prime Video etc. every 3 months

tehwebguy 6y ago
This is how I do it now, sign up and then insta cancel. That way I know the timeline and plan to watch accordingly, and then when it comes up expired on login I decide to resubscribe or try another one. Can only watch a few things concurrently anyway!
- hugocbp 6y ago
  Basically the same that I'm doing. If I am in the middle of something in one, I'll just renew it. Works really well. Usually by the time you go back to the first service, there are some pretty interesting new things that might slip by if you just kept that one.
- suyash 6y ago
  So do you use new email every time you re-subscribe or use the same email? This trick can also be used for free-trial services but that definitely needs new email address.
  - tehwebguy 6y ago
    If there is a free trial offer at the time I’ll take it but I don’t game the offers or anything, it saves so much money already.
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
  Can you repeat it using the same credit card?
  - tehwebguy 6y ago
    I’m not getting anything for free, just stopping the subscription right after I start it so it’s only a month at a time.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
fastball 6y ago
Maybe AT&T or someone could make a service where they take a bunch of different entertainment providers and bundle them all together.
- airstrike 6y ago
  Because they bring it all together in one package, maybe call it something like "Direct Video"
vmception 6y ago
Good strategy, why would you pay separately for Prime Video when it comes with Prime in general?
bonestamp2 6y ago
Ya, we currently subscribe to pretty much all of them and that's already excessive, but it becomes more so as the prices keep going up. So, we'll definitely cancel some of them soon, just out of principal and a service to help would be useful. I don't even need it to activate/deactivate my accounts. The real benefit to me would be tracking and notifying me when the shows I follow have a new season available. Then when I exhaust whichever platform I'm currently subscribed to, I'll know which one to subscribe to next. Also, tracking the Series and Movies that I want to watch would be helpful, especially the ones that can potentially appear/disappear from different streaming services.
- jshen 6y ago
  Apple does a lot of these things if you sub through them. But next you all will complain that Apple takes a cut. This thread can be summarized as, “we want to pay very little money, and spend very little time, to get lots of great content”. On the flip side, the VC model of gaining market share by charging less than is required to sustain the business is an unsustainable model that sets unrealistic expectations.
  - bonestamp2 6y ago
    Maybe you misunderstood me. I currently subscribe to: Youtube TV, Netflix, Disney+, Apple TV+, Prime and HBO MAX. I spend more on streaming services than I did on cable. I'm not asking for them to lower their prices; I'm not even asking that they don't raise their prices. I'm simply saying that when they raise the price it makes me think about the value proposition and I am reminded that I'm paying for far more content than I can possibly consume. That's my fault and nobody else's. I don't need a service that rotates my subscriptions as suggested above. Rather, if someone wants to create a service for cable cutters, I'd like a central place to curate what I like, what I've seen, what I'd like to see and know when that content becomes available. I agree that Apple does some of that, so does netflix, and HBO and some of the others... and I do use those features, but there is still an opportunity for someone to create a service that is centralized and provides more depth. For example, I'd like to go a little deeper than a thumbs up/down when rating Netflix content. I'd like to have more than one playlist on Apple, Prime, etc. I'd like to know when a hard to find movie/show gets licensed and will be available on a streaming service, etc. So, no... I don't want to pay very little money for lots of content. I just want to rebalance what I do pay for to match what I have time to watch. No, I don't want to spend very little time... I actually want to spend more time curating.
sschueller 6y ago
A service that combines all these together... You mean cable tv... we have come full circle...
- uofo 6y ago
  It was a joke
SilasX 6y ago
I'd say the endgame for content is for everyone to just pay some fee (tax?), regardless of how much you watch, and it gets apportioned over the providers of whatever content you end up viewing. That gets the incentives right all around.
- SomewhatLikely 6y ago
  I suppose this is how Youtube premium works. I think they have trouble attracting higher cost content though. I'd prefer if they had a higher tier where you can pay more and get a quality of content that matches what major networks can do.
- ojbyrne 6y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_...
  - SilasX 6y ago
    No, that's not the same model, because the different TV shows aren't paid by ratings.
- listenallyall 6y ago
  so, like, cable tv?
  - SilasX 6y ago
    No, that's not the same model, your payments have no relation to what you watch, and, to the extent that you do, it's largely ad funded.
    - listenallyall 6y ago
      No relation? Fees to content providers are indeed allocated by their popularity, in aggregate. It's why ESPN gets paid (by the cable company) much more than other channels. The only difference in your proposal is the extremely inefficient calculation of millions of individual persons' viewing hours and moving pennies around for each.

notyourwork 6y ago

We’ve come full circle sadly. YouTube TV raised fares with more channels I don’t watch or want. Netflix increases rates and further creates walled garden. Everyone wanting to cut the cord isn’t better off then we were 5 years ago.

fastball 6y ago
How does increasing rates further create a walled garden?
kevinmchugh 6y ago
I'm much better off. I can take my subscriptions with me, wherever I go. I can subscribe for a month at a time. I can cancel online. I can share subscriptions.
- kypro 6y ago
  Give it a few more years.
  - kazinator 6y ago
    Give it a few more years, and we will be even better off.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
xapata 6y ago
Except we have fewer advertisements interrupting shows.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  Smart TVs can pause live TV so you just buffer up 5 minutes and skip the ads.
hugocbp 6y ago

chanfest22 6y ago

Seems long overdue given the value that most users are getting from Netflix plus the relative inability for most traditional Hollywood studios to produce films at previous rates for the foreseeable future.

centimeter 6y ago
The value I got from netflix cratered after every network started their own exclusive paid service.
- vertis 6y ago
  This was my reaction as well. How has Netflix delivered more value when shows that I could previously watch on Netflix are no longer there. They keep cancelling shows that I like as well.
dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
Apart from a few notable exceptions (like The Queen's Gambit), there is an enormous difference in quality between Netflix and Hollywood productions. Netflix redefined the meaning of 'pulp'.
- tptacek 6y ago
  (A) I don't think that's empirically true; it's easy to rattle off high-quality Netflix content, which is why so many people subscribe to it. (B) I don't think that's theoretically true either, in that Netflix and "Hollywood" both get content the same way: by buying it from production companies.
- seg_lol 6y ago
  There is lots of room at the bottom.
- fastball 6y ago
  A few? Off the top of my head: - The Queen's Gambit - Narcos - House of Cards - Russian Doll - Ozark - Stranger Things - Tiger King - Dear White People - The Witcher - The Umbrella Academy - The Crown - Space Force And that's just TV shows. There are a lot of films they've put out that are very good as well.

huntermeyer 6y ago

Subscriber growth has stalled. So they increase the rates on existing customers.

mmcconnell1618 6y ago
Sounds like a good way to get people to cancel and create a downward spiral. I feel like Netflix just recently raised rates. Maybe it was a year ago but feels like yesterday.
- res0nat0r 6y ago
  Netflix has underpriced its service forever, it really should be more expensive than it always has been. They've anchored expectations to a low number now, so it's hard to change.
  - rightbyte 6y ago
    Are they under-priced though? How much does the average subscriber watch? For the price of Netflix for a month I can rent two/three movies and choose whichever I want. Netflix doesn't provide much value on top of that. Paying in advance for a quite limited movie selection. It would only be their series that provide value for the money, if you like them ...
    - aaomidi 6y ago
      And considering that a lot of shows that get a strong fanbase of followers get cancelled, I don't think their price is "too low." It especially doesn't make a lot of sense to have "tiers" of subscription. Why would you allow your users to get a worse experience from you? That seems like a good way to associate "lower quality" with your brand.
    - paxys 6y ago
      Netflix is on for several hours a day in the average household. It's easy to forget that it was perfectly normal to pay $150+/mo for cable back in the day. Probably more with all the hidden fees and add-ons.

nostromo 6y ago

Netflix's current trajectory makes me sad. It reminds me of cable TV now: cheaply produced shlock, with less and less premium TV. The last thing I watched that was truly wonderful on Netflix was Mindhunter -- which I heard was canceled by Netflix because it's too expensive. Meanwhile there's a dozen or more new "reality TV" knock offs seemingly every week. We've switched most of our viewing to HBO now -- it has a lot of fantastic content, like Raised by Wolves, Lovecraft Country, His Dark Materials, Chernobyl, etc. And they actually stand behind their product because they believe in it -- they aren't constantly pulling the rug out from under their viewers like Netflix does.

OnlineGladiator 6y ago
> The last thing I watched that was truly wonderful on Netflix was Mindhunter -- which I heard was canceled by Netflix because it's too expensive. Nnnnnooooo! https://www.wired.com/story/why-netflix-keeps-canceling-shows-after-just-2-seasons/ https://www.wired.com/story/why-netflix-keeps-canceling-show... I honestly consider this the same as Google. They're so focused on insane metrics they don't realize that by killing everything new - good and bad, people are just going to give up on the company entirely because their reputations sour over time. I mean why am I going to try something new from Google just to find out they're cancelling it in 2 years? Likewise, why would I invest my time in a new Netflix series just to find out it's cancelled after 2 seasons? The true problem is it's a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kace91 6y ago
  There was an interview somewhere with Satya Nadella where he mentioned that one of the things he had tried to change for Microsoft was to stop chasing immediate metrics because most long term advantages of companies (like good image) aren't measurable in the short term. Lately it feels like that's the issue with most tech companies, they will do anything to see the uptick in random metrics (engagement, etc) without realizing they are creating miserable experiences by destroying other areas that are less measurable. Yes, I'll click more in your button if you place it full screen over the main content of your app. No, it's not making me more engage in what you're showing me, it's just forcing me to go through some hoops and now I hate you for it.

standardUser 6y ago

I share various streaming and news subscriptions with a small network of friends and family. I pay for 7 services myself and have access to 5 others. (5 television, 3 music, 3 news, 1 podcast) The messed up part is, that's still only a sampling of the services that are out there! But most of the remaining are regional newspapers and niche streaming video services.

xoxoy 6y ago

The Office getting yanked end of year will be a major unsub event. I don’t think this will be.

cheschire 6y ago
Some things are just better to me on DVD to be honest, and The Office is definitely one of those. The extras, the commentary tracks, it's just been a better experience for me than on netflix.
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  I don't understand these supposed single-series diehards like The Office fans that make their cancellation ever known every time Netflix comes up. If you're obsessed with a single show, isn't it time to own the whole thing digitally? Why would you even settle for needing an internet connection and service subscription to watch the one show you care about? It's like being annoyed that Scribd stopped hosting your favorite book. Reminds me of the small brain panel of that galaxy brain meme.
  - buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
    > Why would you even settle for needing an internet connection and service subscription to watch the one show you care about? Because I have half a dozen devices, all which get replaced every few years, that all need to be able to access that show. How do I get my show on all those devices without an internet connection and without taking a bunch of my time managing it?
    - hombre_fatal 6y ago
      If you really wanted that, you can get a Plex server up and running which would likely suit you better since a single show is your deal breaker. Might as well control the deal. But I'd question the need to get TV on all of your six devices just like I'd question the need to get Twitter and Candy Crush on all of them. Maybe get it on 1-2 (laptop, TV usb stick) and learn to be okay with not having 24/7 access to TV. You'd be happier. As some ideas for ways to swap out TV with something more fulfilling, I recently decided to randomly consume some Youtube courses on the works of T. S. Eliot and Plato, of course reading them on my own alongside. It's not necessarily as stimulating as captivating TV or methamphetamine, but I feel like I'm growing, being challenged, and it's damn sure fulfilling. Also gives me something interesting to talk about. (I chose those authors because an older friend of mine knows about them and likes talking about them.)

pgrote 6y ago

The golden age of streaming has come to an end. There are no longer streaming services offering a wide selection of shows and movies, but silos of self-produced or owned content. In the next 12-24 months it'll be obvious the way to consume media will change from a monthly netflix/apple/cbs/peacock/hbo/anyone else fee to a 30 day run. People will sign up and churn based on what they want to see. Services will pop up around this and handle your memberships for you. Those service will become the new cable companies. Netflix is still a good value for the money charged.

umvi 6y ago
I switched to that model a while ago. I refuse to pay for Netflix/Disney+/Hulu/Crunchyroll simultaneously. So I queue up shows I want to watch on a given platform, buy a month of that platform, and then switch to the next platform in the queue the next month. It requires more overhead (i.e. manually cancelling and re-enabling services), but it saves probably $200-300+ per year vs. having 4 simultaneous subscriptions.
- kgwxd 6y ago
  I'm sure the next step will be to require annual subscriptions. Amazon Prime has already normalized it.
  - gruez 6y ago
    >Amazon Prime has already normalized it. many people might have prime on an annual basis but amazon seems content with offering prime on a monthly basis as well. In fact the only way to get prime video (without prime) is monthly. https://www.amazon.com/amazonprime https://www.amazon.com/amazonprime
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      Indeed. I historically have gotten Prime for a month around Christmas shopping season each year, and that's been more than enough Prime for me.

larrik 6y ago

Seems pretty risky to announce this the day before the Mandalorian comes out...

Rapzid 6y ago
Time to re-activate my Disney+ by the sounds of it.

justinzollars 6y ago

I miss low prices and high quality. Netflix has lost its way.

sschueller 6y ago

Is it wise to raise prices now when you have more people watching than every and more people who can not pay more because of this pandemic? Ok, it's just $2 but still...

dorfsmay 6y ago

Anybody else hit this bug with Netflix: You have a perfectly valid Credit Card, you try to re-start your account (or maybe create a new account), and you get a "payment form not valid". Your bank says Netflix isn't even trying to authorize the payment, netflix support says they know there is no issue with your card, the issue is on their side, but they cannot fix it, the only proposed solution is to buy a netflix gift card... https://twitter.com/dorfsmay/status/1315402870661902336 https://twitter.com/dorfsmay/status/1315402870661902336 This totally puzzles me. They have a bug that I am sure technical people would jump in and solve in a matters of hours, they have tech support people who understand the issue, but the company has provided no way to connect the two!

judge2020 6y ago
Netflix sometimes blacklists cards to prevent people from continuously getting free trials on new accounts, although it seems to be random/based on a list of heuristics that only a handful of employees know.
- canucker2016 6y ago
  then this bug may disappear for those in the USA since Netflix doesn't do free trials in the USA anymore. see https://gizmodo.com/netflix-thinks-its-so-great-you-dont-need-even-need-to-1845363221 https://gizmodo.com/netflix-thinks-its-so-great-you-dont-nee...

Someone1234 6y ago

The key differentiator between the future and past, isn't strictly cheaper prices, it is flexibility. Satellite/Cable had a huge lock-in factor due to equipment contracts and even monopoly/duopoly issues. A lot of consumers found themselves either hard or soft locked in as prices continued to rise/quality declined (and many still are). The future is different not because content is guaranteed to be inexpensive, but because competition can exist and users get the choice (including choosing nothing for periods). In this case Netflix is raising prices which sucks, but the market is rich in high quality competitors, some of which are cheaper.

ksec 6y ago

Disney, Amazon, Netflix, Apple TV+. Apple intends to "give away" Apple TV+ for free with their bundle Apple One. ( It is sort of included in the bundle as offering value ) Amazon Prime Video is ~85% of US household and increasing. And again it is included for free as part of Amazon Prime. And it is working hard on its intentional expansion. Disney - I dont think any family with kids is ever going to cancel that. Not to mention their low price. Netflix, with all their quality originals and their confidence to raise prices seems to suggest there are little to no lost of subscribers. I wonder how this is going to end.

Someone1234 6y ago
> Apple intends to "give away" Apple TV+ for free with their bundle Apple One. They aren't giving it away and it isn't free. In fact Apple One is so expensive you need to be paying for most of the included services already for it to make financial sense (and several of those services aren't popular by themselves).

gandalfian 6y ago

Some people cancel and then once it has stopped reactivate useing their VPN to renew in Turkey or Argentina at much cheaper rates. Long as they already have a verified payment card on their account.

pivo 6y ago
But doesn't that change, or limit, the content that's available to them?
- skinnymuch 6y ago
  Content you see is based on where you are, not where you’re paying.

tdburn 6y ago

Cuties led to a lot of cancellations

29athrowaway 6y ago
Including mine, that was upsetting. Also, the shows I watch, such as Narcos, Stranger Things, etc. are released once every 2 years and I realized I had not used the service in a while.
axaxs 6y ago
Yeah, I didn't cancel though I really felt like it. But now with this price raise I can't help but feel like I'm funding that trash, which doesn't sit well with me. /soapbox

jaimex2 6y ago

No idea why the share price increased, clearly this is going to make people cancel their service. Netflix wont be around for many more years. The critical mistake was switching their servers to AWS, you never pay your competitor even if it reduces your costs.

herpderperator 6y ago
When companies raise prices the stock goes up because they are anticipated to increase revenue without additional costs. It's a $1-$2 increase. People are unlikely to cancel en masse otherwise they wouldn't have done it.
- tsjq 6y ago
  "slowly boil the frog"
- jaimex2 6y ago
  Depends how close to a round number the price is I would imagine. Going from $10 to $12 has a bigger psychological effect than say $12 to $14
jiveturkey 6y ago
The critical mistake was made very very long ago, when they didn't pursue becoming a platform aggressively, at all other cost. They decided they want a big cut and were brazen to think they owned enough mindshare to draw all the eyeballs. Always pursue dominance. Sow, sow, sow, and more sow. Then reap. Amazon was already an object lesson for them, but they ignored it. In hindsight, of course it went that way. Have you seen the culture deck? They've been on AWS forever haven't they? Long before prime video. I very much doubt that it reduces their cost, even at the pricing they must get. It lets them focus their effort. Ok lastly you're wrong on their longevity. Yes some people will cancel but the vast majority will not, and they will see more revenue. I don't 'get' Netflix (the content sucks and they are like Google -- your favorite show is likely to get canned, simply because the very best shows are almost by definition "uniquely" appealing and TV, er streaming content is too expensive to generate many such shows) but every remote has a NFLX button. In the end there will be netflix and disney.

rkhassen9 6y ago

Cancelled today.

lostphilosopher 6y ago

Haven't read every comment, but I read quite a few and I'm shocked that people are thinking the new world of streaming is "the same" as cable. What I get from streaming that I didn't get from cable is: no commercials and the ability to watch on demand without recording or other hassle. I would pay more than cable prices for those two features. I don't except to pay one company and get all companies' products - in any context. You don't get Whoppers at McDonald's, Ford doesn't sell Toyotas. Intermediaries create their own islands of exclusivity (you can only get X on Door Dash and Y on Uber Eats). What I'm worried about is streaming services not letting me pay to not have to watch commercials. Last thought - if you think there's "nothing good" on platform Z you may be burning through content way too fast. I don't think we can or should put out endless hours of great new TV content aligned to each person's tastes.

cambalache 6y ago
> no commercials So far, but still Hulu shows commercial in some plans, and netflix shove their "commercials" . Expect it to get worst. > ability to watch on demand without recording or other hassle. You still have hassle , you need to move from one application to the other, hardly convenient.
- nucleardog 6y ago
  Signed up for one of the “extras” on Prime because they had a show I really wanted to watch. Was like an extra $15/mo. Commercials every 5 minutes. And they clearly didn’t have much ad inventory because it was the same damn commercial every time. Canceled the subscription before it went to paid... about an hour after I signed up. Torrented the show instead. Fuck all of that.

spirobel 6y ago

I never understood the hype around netflix. Its very low quality "entertainment". Cable tv for "young people".

hombre_fatal 6y ago
If you can't find things to watch on Netflix, you either haven't looked/tried or you have such narrow interests that the other services aren't going to please you either. Maybe since you mentioned "young people", you're looking for Gunsmoke reruns?
- spirobel 6y ago
  what is "gunsmoke reruns" I am 27 years old,hombre :-)
- spirobel 6y ago
  I dont think I have narrow interests. I just think Netflix is extremely shallow garbage entertainment. Similar to watching TV. I was forced on serveral social occasions to watch netflix. I would be alright with it like i am alright with people watching TV. But people pretend like this is the greatest thing ever sooo much better than watching TV. Its a very undignified ritual you have to go through to do even more undignifed stuff.

arminiusreturns 6y ago

Netflix stopped working on linux for me a few months ago. I finally figured out it was probably a wildvine related issue (and if you don't know what wildvine is, omg what a rabbit hole), and Netflix just doesn't care to fix it because fuck linux users I guess. Fuck netflix, I guess. HBO did the same thing... Showtime still works, and I finally gave into Amazon, on which I can watch my HBO shows. I think Amazon is going to come out much better in the streaming wars than many anticipate.

jiggawatts 6y ago
It doesn't work well on Windows either unless you have a specific Intel CPU, a specific GPU, and a new monitor. They downgrade from 4K to 1080p silently. I'm tempted to see if the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission would smack them around a little for false advertising...

frankydp 6y ago

The Netflix shock jock level of extremist one-upmanship outrageous content(politics, horror, children cartoons) has lead to my cancelation. Along with functionally absent parental controls. Price is irrelevant.

usaphp 6y ago

It looks like in the end we will end up back where we started with cable TV package deals. For example - I just want to watch European football and to do that right now I have two options, either pay almost $70/month for fubo.tv (which was just 20$ before it started adding crap channels and was focused on football only), or I have to sign up for CBS to watch champions league, fanatiz to watch bein sports, peacock to watch some premier league games, NBC cable to watch other premier league games, and espn plus to watch Italian and French league, ridiculous.

vinni2 6y ago

I share my Netflix account with 3 other family members. It can’t get more cheaper than that. I subscribe to HBO once in a while. I got 1 year free Apple TV+ after buying a Mac. So my monthly streaming expenses for now is 3€.

danielscrubs 6y ago

The writing has been on the wall for some time: 1. Grading system changed from 1-5 to 1-2 (thumbs up/down). They thought that the users where full of crap when rating. I do believe some bosses just looked "bad" when buying in the next Adam Sandler movie. This started a cozy culture where no one in Netflix was wrong. Recommendation engine becomes comically bad, even with the best and the brightest. 2. They started to buy everything under the sun. South park made an episode about it even. All the comedians got their own stand up specials. It was now way easier to get a top score (thumbs up). Bosses where happy. 3. As they no longer focuses on quality which they no longer can measure (measuring time watched and churn is not that useful!), they start to strive for quantity. Which is expensive, very expensive. I guess that in the next decade Netflix will become the next Comcast and cost 35 USD per month, and it all started in an innocent change to the grading system.

tpetry 6y ago
Youtube also removed the star rating a long time ago because people to rate the extremes: either 1 star or all 5, you don‘t get the benefit of the fine rating system if your users are not capable of rating things correctly
- danielscrubs 6y ago
  Which people? A percentage of people? Those extremes are only extreme for people wanting a bell curve. They had more quality in their data but they where incapable of using it because they like to take averages and so they blame the users.
  - 1123581321 6y ago
    No, they have higher quality data now because they have twice as much engagement with the thumbs system, and users weren’t rating 2-4 stars in a useful way. Losing the review comments was a shame but they were infrequently viewed. As much as it offends my sensibilities, sometimes the best move is to simplify a feature so that improved usage makes up for the loss of the complications.
6y ago

commonturtle 6y ago

Tbh I still think Netflix is a very good deal. For $14/month you get access to a huge selection of movies and TV shows that you can watch with no commercials. Where I'm from a ticket to the cinema costs about that much (excluding popcorn) and will plough you with 10 minutes of commercials and movie trailers for the privilege. People will happily pay $30 per person for dinner in a restaurant multiple times a month, but are reluctant to pay $14/month for access to a huge library of endless entertainment. Why?

hiram112 6y ago

Glad they kept the $9 single stream price. If I do go back to streaming service, that's a fair price. As a single person, I've watched as most of these services have increased their prices for single users but made it much more reasonable for a family. Why am I paying the same price for Amazon Prime as a family of 5 with a 3K square house who orders from Amazon 2x/day and watches 5x the video? Why am I paying $70/month for cable for maybe 7 hours/week when some family is watching 100 hours combined per week? Why am I still paying a premium for AT&T post-paid mobile service when a family who is constantly adding and changing new lines for the kids gets a brand new IPhone or two each year during their upgrade deals, yet AT&T won't ever offer an existing user a discount on a new phone? Same with Spotify, Apple Music, HBO, etc.