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To pencil out even further what my sibling comment mentioned; you want to be able to say "you repeatedly did x and this is explicitly against our Code of Condu

To pencil out even further what my sibling comment mentioned; you want to be able to say "you repeatedly did x and this is explicitly against our Code of Conduct that you said you'd read before your first contribution" instead of "you're being a jerk and as such we will be refusing any contributions from you going forward". The second example is completely arbitrary, and is up to the whims of the core team - whomever they might be. With a Code of Conduct you're (ideally) told up front what you can and cannot do. This reduces ambiguity and arbitrary decision making. I can also tell you that a Code of Conduct isn't a change to how I personally govern the projects and communities I'm in charge of. Instead, it's about writing down what I would already remove people for anyway.

Aeolun 6y ago
The effect is the same though? It’s not as if a code of conduct ever contains anything that sane people don’t already know. And like some other commenter said, it basically boils down to “don’t be an asshole”.
- herbstein 6y ago
  All very true. But then you get drama about "what is an asshole". Trust me, it's not just a made up strawman argument. That happens regularly. Breaking the Code of Conduct isn't a one-and-done thing. You talk to that person, and tell them that what they said was over the line. Be that using a slur, being increasingly insulting to another community member, or something else. I, as an administrator, basically tell them "not cool". If their reaction is "yeah, alright" then nothing more comes of it. No citations. No three-strike rules. But if someone continually defies our reprimands we have the backing of saying "you've repeatedly been told... " and "this is written in ..." meaning nothing should come as a surprise. It's also a way for normal users to understand what might be rule-breaking behavior. I can't observe everything happening in a community, as much as I like participating in them. Instead, I have to rely on other non-admin members reporting bad behavior. Making it clear to other users what kind of behavior they can report someone for is also super helpful - and for some people induces trust.
43241 6y ago
I find dishing out punitive measures on the basis of the nature of one's conduct always a nebulous, case-based business and as such see it not reasonable to make for a crude guideline - a flowchart, if you will - for the line of action to take for what one deems a transgression against the project's behavioral norms. Codes of Conduct always seem to me a way for one, a profit-driven corporation, for example, to posture its morally virtuous conduct, evident from the eagerness to expressly list out all the kinds of infringements against people of oppressed-against backgrounds coming to the mind of the CoC's writer (the use of neological hip labels makes a telltale dog whistle), instead of simply listing out goals of the nature of, say, inclusion, diversity, and general amiability. The presence of these prohibitive, morally prescriptivist qualities of CoCs is what I find to be the source of discord here.

Aeolun 6y ago

The effect is the same though? It’s not as if a code of conduct ever contains anything that sane people don’t already know. And like some other commenter said, it basically boils down to “don’t be an asshole”.

herbstein 6y ago
All very true. But then you get drama about "what is an asshole". Trust me, it's not just a made up strawman argument. That happens regularly. Breaking the Code of Conduct isn't a one-and-done thing. You talk to that person, and tell them that what they said was over the line. Be that using a slur, being increasingly insulting to another community member, or something else. I, as an administrator, basically tell them "not cool". If their reaction is "yeah, alright" then nothing more comes of it. No citations. No three-strike rules. But if someone continually defies our reprimands we have the backing of saying "you've repeatedly been told... " and "this is written in ..." meaning nothing should come as a surprise. It's also a way for normal users to understand what might be rule-breaking behavior. I can't observe everything happening in a community, as much as I like participating in them. Instead, I have to rely on other non-admin members reporting bad behavior. Making it clear to other users what kind of behavior they can report someone for is also super helpful - and for some people induces trust.

43241 6y ago

I find dishing out punitive measures on the basis of the nature of one's conduct always a nebulous, case-based business and as such see it not reasonable to make for a crude guideline - a flowchart, if you will - for the line of action to take for what one deems a transgression against the project's behavioral norms. Codes of Conduct always seem to me a way for one, a profit-driven corporation, for example, to posture its morally virtuous conduct, evident from the eagerness to expressly list out all the kinds of infringements against people of oppressed-against backgrounds coming to the mind of the CoC's writer (the use of neological hip labels makes a telltale dog whistle), instead of simply listing out goals of the nature of, say, inclusion, diversity, and general amiability. The presence of these prohibitive, morally prescriptivist qualities of CoCs is what I find to be the source of discord here.