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I have a theory. In the old days web development was looked down upon by "real" programmers. But then the WWW really took off and people started moving over fro

I have a theory. In the old days web development was looked down upon by "real" programmers. But then the WWW really took off and people started moving over from the C/Java world into the world of JavaScript. These are the people that insanely complicated web development when they tried to make it as complicated as the development world they came out of.

CameronNemo 6y ago
Do you have evidence? Vue and Svelte, IIRC, were authored by designers. Not C or Java programmers. Perhaps React has a different history.
- skoskie 6y ago
  > I have a theory Pretty sure they were just sharing thoughts.
- winrid 6y ago
  Vue is influenced by AngularJS, designed by a Java dev.
muzani 6y ago
JS is quite a hacky language. Trying to turn it into Java neuters some of the benefits of being hacky (I'm looking at you, Typescript). But at some point, it's neither a hacky Lisp like language, nor is it stable like Java or C++. It's just a middle ground that does these things poorly. It would be nice to have a new programming language from scratch built to handle all the async/reactive mess. But until then JS is our best bet.
- brendanmc6 6y ago
  I hear this so often, so as an exclusively js/ts dev I have to ask... what about this is “done poorly”? ``` try { return await fetch(url); } catch (e) { handleError(e) } ``` Because that (metaphorically speaking) is 90% of what I write. Throw in the occasional closure, `map()` or `reduce()` My day to day headaches are never from TS, and always from unpredictable DOM api/layout/style behavior. I guess I just don’t have any frame of reference for how “nice” a language can be. Is it just that JS has so many “bad parts” and footguns that I’ve gotten good at ignoring?
  - tofuahdude 6y ago
    Fyi return await is redundant and is just creating one additional callback you didn't need (b/c you will have to call this function with an await anyways)
    - chain-- 6y ago
      Try / catch is the exception, if you don't await then your catch handler won't work. https://jakearchibald.com/2017/await-vs-return-vs-return-await/ https://jakearchibald.com/2017/await-vs-return-vs-return-awa...
      - azhu 6y ago
        Semi funny that this exchange is kinda like proof of why JS catches the hate it does.
winrid 6y ago
AngularJS was designed by a Java guy, so the argument has a little merit. But honestly, this is because mature backend frameworks can be REALLY nice.
wvenable 6y ago
Except that desktop development is actually easier, with fewer tools and frameworks, than the spaghetti that is modern web development.

CameronNemo 6y ago

Do you have evidence? Vue and Svelte, IIRC, were authored by designers. Not C or Java programmers. Perhaps React has a different history.

skoskie 6y ago
> I have a theory Pretty sure they were just sharing thoughts.
winrid 6y ago
Vue is influenced by AngularJS, designed by a Java dev.

muzani 6y ago

JS is quite a hacky language. Trying to turn it into Java neuters some of the benefits of being hacky (I'm looking at you, Typescript). But at some point, it's neither a hacky Lisp like language, nor is it stable like Java or C++. It's just a middle ground that does these things poorly. It would be nice to have a new programming language from scratch built to handle all the async/reactive mess. But until then JS is our best bet.

brendanmc6 6y ago
I hear this so often, so as an exclusively js/ts dev I have to ask... what about this is “done poorly”? ``` try { return await fetch(url); } catch (e) { handleError(e) } ``` Because that (metaphorically speaking) is 90% of what I write. Throw in the occasional closure, `map()` or `reduce()` My day to day headaches are never from TS, and always from unpredictable DOM api/layout/style behavior. I guess I just don’t have any frame of reference for how “nice” a language can be. Is it just that JS has so many “bad parts” and footguns that I’ve gotten good at ignoring?
- tofuahdude 6y ago
  Fyi return await is redundant and is just creating one additional callback you didn't need (b/c you will have to call this function with an await anyways)
  - chain-- 6y ago
    Try / catch is the exception, if you don't await then your catch handler won't work. https://jakearchibald.com/2017/await-vs-return-vs-return-await/ https://jakearchibald.com/2017/await-vs-return-vs-return-awa...
    - azhu 6y ago
      Semi funny that this exchange is kinda like proof of why JS catches the hate it does.

winrid 6y ago

AngularJS was designed by a Java guy, so the argument has a little merit. But honestly, this is because mature backend frameworks can be REALLY nice.

wvenable 6y ago

Except that desktop development is actually easier, with fewer tools and frameworks, than the spaghetti that is modern web development.