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Dr. Leonid Rogozov operating himself to remove his appendix in Antarctica, 1961
- JJMcJ 6y agoSaw a photo of a surgeon removing his own gall bladder. This from the 1920s. The reason he did this was to further his belief that general anesthesia was being over used.
- Shared404 6y agoDo you have a link? I'd love to read more about that.
- severine 6y agoSounds like Evan O'Neill Kane. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/iEvan_O%27Neill_Kane?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/iEvan_O%27Neill_Kane?wprov=sfl... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-surgery?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-surgery?wprov=sfla1
- Shared404 6y agoMany thanks. That's incredible to read about, I have to respect him a lot for being willing to try his theory on himself first.
- nextaccountic 6y agoDid this change his mind about general anesthesia?
- DoofusOfDeath 6y agoMy grandfather was a young man in Ireland around then. His job was to hold un-anesthetized surgical patients still. When he was old and in the U.S. (late 1960s?) he chose suicide over surgery.
- retrac 6y agoIt maybe is. The surgeon was surprised when I declined general anesthesia for surgery on my wrist bones. Apparently nearly everyone wants to be put under if they're going to cut. Objectively sedation would be the riskiest part of the procedure. And I wanted to see what it looked like. It was completely painless, but also quite unsettling. I'm pretty distant and cold about things in general, and I would imagine other people might find it distressing or even traumatic.
- aaron695 6y agoThere have been studies on babies with and without anesthesia. From memory, with anesthesia was better for the baby. But being one of the many political biologies I'm not sure I'd trust the result.
- JJMcJ 6y agoDo you mean anesthesia for the mother during a delivery?
- JJMcJ 6y agoThere are mild sedation techniques. People think they are "put under" because there tends to be no memory of the procedure, but it is not like general anesthesia in the strong sense.
- saalweachter 6y agoOn the topic of performing your own surgery, let's not forget the untrained self-caesarean: https://www.thehealthy.com/pregnancy/woman-performed-own-c-section/ https://www.thehealthy.com/pregnancy/woman-performed-own-c-s...
- vr46 6y agoHoly cremoly. I had appendicitis when I was about 7, back in the 1980s, it was awful and after surgery in an actual hospital with actual doctors I was still out of action for six weeks. I have no idea how anyone could be in a fit mental state to be able to do this to themselves, and I imagine this could have gone completely wrong very easily, it's beating the odds that is just as impressive too.
- mancerayder 6y agoThe 80s weren't Medieval in technology. Is it because it burst?
- bonzini 6y agoYeah I remember a friend had appendicitis in the late 80s and she only spent one week in hospital and one week recovering at home.
- nkrisc 6y agoThe threat of death will do that to you. Either he steeled himself and did it, or he'd probably die.
- Shared404 6y agoI find it incredible some of the length's people are willing to go to in order to survive. This case in particular is incredible to me, partially because I am freaked out (irrationally) by the idea of surgery at all. Being awake during surgery is impressive enough, but doing it on yourself is a whole new level of amazing.
- prvc 6y agoIt's a no brainer if the only alternative is death.
- whaaswijk 6y agoFor some of us the idea of cutting into ourselves is definitely not a no brained. I could easily see myself be paralyzed by fear in such a situation.
- gabythenerd 6y agoI can see a more passive person preferring death easily.
- Shared404 6y agoSuicide rates would argue otherwise. For me personally, there's not a lot of things that I think would stop me, but I don't think I would operate on myself. Possibly, if I had the skills I would feel differently, but honestly, I think I would feel the same way.
- graeme 6y agoSuicide is largely based on anguish or some internal factor rather than due to imminent death or acute but transient pain. The typical person is not actively suicidal. So conditional odds suggest in most cases a person would prefer to live https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide#/media/File:Suicide_cases_from_16_American_states_(2008)_(cropped).png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide#/media/File:Suicide_ca... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide#Risk_factors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide#Risk_factors
- scop 6y agoI am thoroughly impressed one could be mentally composed during such a routine. I have a medical condition that has resulted in many procedures and operations. Needles and blood do not cause me any anxiety. However, on one occasion I had to have my big toe nail removed. It was numbed up fine and I was reading a book during the procedure. However, I looked down at one point and saw my toe nail being pulled off in a bloody mess and, even with (a) no fear of blood and (b) no pain, I almost passed out. There was something deep in my brain that said “alert, that looks really bad so you need to immediately pass out!”
- pvarangot 6y agoThe only similar thing I experienced was working on my own ingrown toenail and fixing it, forever. I did it as a teen. I was totally not able to do that when I started having issues with it, the bare thought of touching it made me feel uncomfortable. But after like 5 or 6 different treatments under local anesthesia or involving ridiculous molded acrylic concoctions that _were not doing anything_ I got tired, bought a scalpel and grabbed some cotton and a napkin and spent like one hour carefully cutting and shaving the thing and using cotton balls to lift it around in a way were it looked like it will grow well after my massacre. That was probably twenty years ago and I never had any issues with it since then.
- tjohns 6y agoThis is called "vasovagal syncope". [1] Certain emotional triggers, including the sight of blood, cause the brain to command the cardiovascular system to lower blood pressure. In some people this reflex is strong enough to cause loss of consciousness due to the decreased blood pressure. There's a number of competing theories as to why this happens, possibly an evolved response to help control bleeding or vestigial tonic immobility (feigning death to hide from predators). [2] Either way, it's kinda fascinating. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflex_syncope#Vasovagal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflex_syncope#Vasovagal [2]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5135249/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5135249/
- audiometry 6y ago
- cakeofzerg 6y agoI do this by my own hand
- Gunax 6y agoMy grandfather had to have an appendectomy without anesthesia.... But obviously he didn't have to self operate!
- mlvljr 6y agoIn the snow, while walking uphill to school!
- abootstrapper 6y agoFuture headline, “Man removes own appendix by watching YouTube video to avoid unnecessary medical expense.”
- Jtsummers 6y agoThere's a lot of information freely (or inexpensively) available, and enough people in the biohacking community that have demonstrated a willingness to perform (at least) small self-surgeries, that a more critical surgery being self-performed would not be surprising.
- mancerayder 6y ago"Latest craze - teens are now conducting the appendix removal challenge. Here's how you can protect your tweens."
- notJim 6y agoI have already seen mutual aid folks talking about what they'll do if abortions become illegal in the US.
- r-bryan 6y agoDIY appendectomy? Fine, suture self.
- geocrasher 6y agoWell done, sir. Well done.
- grecy 6y ago
- ashton314 6y agoThat is some serious mental grit. I'm getting woozy just thinking about photo. I don't have that big of a problem with blood or needles—I find it fascinating to watch when I get blood sample taken from my arm. (Did you know the vials are evacuated? That's why the blood spurts into them!) But this… I swear, if I were born in an earlier century, I would have died long before now. I am soooo grateful for the medical technology we have in this age.
- hermitcrab 6y agoYou don't get much more hardcore than that.
- Barrin92 6y agothe psychological stress aside this is also crazy "I worked without gloves. It was hard to see. The mirror helps, but it also hinders—after all, it’s showing things backwards." Fumbling around in your intestines backwards lying awkwardly on a table while you're already fucked up due to the appendicitis and fever. Pretty incredible.
- mft_ 6y agoThis is also crazy: > Opening the peritoneum, I injured the blind gut and had to sew it up. Removing the appendix is relatively straightforward, and not too delicate (in a normal surgical situation!) Stitching damaged bowel is a lot more delicate. The idea of doing it mostly blind, via a mirror at best, to yourself... wow.
- gorgoiler 6y agoHow to take your appendix out on the Piccadilly Line... — Monty Python, 1974 https://greatwen.com/2012/11/20/how-to-take-your-appendix-out-on-the-piccadilly-line/ https://greatwen.com/2012/11/20/how-to-take-your-appendix-ou...
- watersb 6y agoI have a chronic medical condition which often causes prolonged, severe abdominal pain. There have been times where, if I had the training and knew that self-surgery would lead to quick relief after only another few hours of excruciating sensation, I might have been willing to give it a go. And I would have probably passed out from the pain and bled to death.
- at_a_remove 6y agoI have a similar medical condition in its effects, access to really frightening levels of painkillers, and I have often -- in the less pleasant moments -- had similar impractical "daydreams."
- serf 6y ago>There have been times where, if I had the training and knew that self-surgery would lead to quick relief after only another few hours of excruciating sensation, I might have been willing to give it a go. i've had similar thinkings about dental surgery during intense oral pain. Tooth pain is pretty bad -- it's amazing that anything can make a human come to the conclusion of : "Well, if I ripped all the bad teeth out of my head..." The lead in Darren Aronofsky's 'Pi' comes to a similar conclusion before self-trepanning due to intense migraines, although in that movie it is made intentionally unclear whether or not the peace the lead comes to is due to the hole in his head, or something else.
- buescher 6y agoBrought this to mind, which I first saw in redacted form in The Best of Creative Computing: http://www.mit.edu/people/dmredish/wwwMLRF/links/Humor/The_Exam.html http://www.mit.edu/people/dmredish/wwwMLRF/links/Humor/The_E...
- im3w1l 6y agoThis similar article has more fascinating details https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32481442 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32481442
- OminousWeapons 6y agoLess crazy but also very cool: the first coronary catheterization (insertion of a tube through a peripheral vein into the heart) was performed by doctor William Forssmann on himself. Forssmann's colleagues did not believe a coronary catheterization was possible without injuring the heart and possibly killing the patient, so he cathed himself, walked to imaging while cathed, and got X-rayed to prove the catheter was in his right atrium and that it could be done.
- layoutIfNeeded 6y agoSo he inserted the catheter blind??
- bookofjoe 6y agoYes. I read about this when I was in medical school and was astounded at his boldness. FWIW he won the 1956 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for his accomplishment.
- azernik 6y agoI just read through the story, and not quite - he got the catheter started partway, and then the nurse who he'd tricked into thinking she would be the test subject (he needed her to get supplies) walked him to radiology so he see what he was doing when he got to the tricky parts.
- macintux 6y agoI’m not certain that doing something like that voluntarily in the absence of an emergency is _less_ crazy. Great story.
- pmoriarty 6y agoThere's an interesting book called "Who Goes First?"[1] about something that used to be much more common than it is today: self-experimentation in medicine. [1] - https://www.amazon.com/Who-Goes-First-Lawrence-Altman/dp/0520212819/ https://www.amazon.com/Who-Goes-First-Lawrence-Altman/dp/052...
- pengaru 6y agoThis seems unbelievable, but I've had some bad bloody wounds in circumstances where I was fully aware third party assistance was nowhere to be had. The mind/body enters an interesting mode in my experience, where I become disassociated from the situation and can focus on what needs to be done. The pain strangely suppresses temporarily, until a sense of completion/achieving stability is restored. Living things are inherently survival machines.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- pmoriarty 6y ago"Living things are inherently survival machines." How fascinating, then, how despite this so many people manage to voluntarily give up their own lives.
- rv-de 6y agoIf life feels for too long more like surviving than living one might get tired of it.
- marnett 6y agoThis is so succinctly profound. Thank you
- bookofjoe 6y agoYes. A retired professor emeritus of anesthesiology in my department, in his 80s, bedridden, and on dialysis, told our department chair that his life had become too unpleasant and boring to continue with the round the clock routine of treatments and tests that would be his lot until he died. He directed that the dialysis machine be disconnected and died comfortably shortly thereafter. >A natural death from kidney failure does not hurt. As toxins build up in your blood, you will start to feel sleepy. https://lifeoptions.org/living-with-kidney-failure/comfort-care/#:~:text=A%20natural%20death%20from%20kidney,toxins%2C%20to%20make%20you%20comfortable https://lifeoptions.org/living-with-kidney-failure/comfort-c....
- abetlen 6y agoFun fact, all doctors who plan to winter at an Antarctic station must have their appendix removed beforehand [1]. The reason is that they're usually the only doctor available. [1]: https://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-antarctica/people-in-antarctica/health/ https://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-antarctica/people-in-ant...
- Waterluvian 6y agoI'm not sure I'll debate your source. It looks legit. But wow is that hard to believe. Is appendicitis really that prevalent? It feels like it's an overreaction to a specific event.
- vkou 6y ago> Is appendicitis really that prevalent? It's not incredibly prevalent, but it's a death sentence if not treated immediately.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- maxerickson 6y agoSepsis from a burst appendix is. There have been studies where a large percentage of cases of appendicitis were successfully treated with antibiotics (which is treatment of course, but not immediate surgery).
- refurb 6y agoIt’s seems like an excessive requirement considering antibiotics were found to be non-inferior to surgery in acute appendicitis.[1] Sure, antibiotics don’t work for every case, but doing abdominal surgery just in case sounds risky. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2014320 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2014320
- psyklic 6y ago
- medymed 6y agoThe longer I am in medicine, the more I am stunned by this. The likelihood of losing consciousness during the procedure is quite high. The time needed to tell people in advance what to do if that happens is not likely sufficient. I’m glad he was skilled and fortunate enough to live to tell his story for the ages. I wonder how many physicians/surgeons have been in similar situations and not been so fortunate.
- nmg 6y agoThat reminds me, I need to re-read Survivor Type by Stephen King...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- geocrasher 6y agoA family I know here in Washington are legendary woodsman. They've worked in the woods for at least 3 generations that I know of. There is a story (quite true, not a legend- people who were there attest to it) that when the elder woodsman had an accident and sliced his forearm open (a clean slice, not sure how it happened) he went to his truck, cleaned it, and stitched it up with fishing line. And went back to work.
- mjklin 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician,_heal_thyself https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician,_heal_thyself
- mulmen 6y agoMeta: It’s peak web 2020 when tapping a photo on “rare historical photos” results in a black screen with a caption and a microscopic “x”. They couldn’t just link to the damn jpeg and let my browser display it could they?
- surajs 6y agohe died from lung cancer? wonder if that was because his inability to quit smoking. ma man.
- Softcadbury 6y agoI love this website! So many interesting photos, like https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/paris-exposition-universelle-in-rare-pictures-1899/ https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/paris-exposition-universell... or https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/cleveland-balloons-1986/ https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/cleveland-balloons-1986/
- nxpnsv 6y agoJerri Nielsen treated her own breast cancer at south pole station in 1998 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerri_Nielsen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerri_Nielsen
- Hitton 6y agoI remember reading about a dentist in similar conditions who cleaned his(her?) root canal. I've recently tried to googling it but wasn't able to find source though.