4 ms·

Even then you could create random full volume sharp noise to be emitted from said entertainment system (or perhaps a blood curdling scream) I could see that ca

Even then you could create random full volume sharp noise to be emitted from said entertainment system (or perhaps a blood curdling scream) I could see that causing some secondary serious problems. Could potentially amplify its impact by combining it with the GPS to ensure it occurs at a high speed and in busy traffic too.

DoingIsLearning 6y ago
And that is why fail-safe is important. Most older infotainment systems have a physical power switch which is a hard interrupt to power-off. It is in my view a design mistake to have full touch-screen interfaces on infotainment.
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  Most older system of any kind had a physical power switch. And I still want that. To be sure, that when I turn off a device, it is really off.
- sriram_malhar 6y ago
  It could just be a soft commanding voice that says, "this is not an emergency. Please pull over to one side of the road and get out of the car and wait". Just that will cause enough chaos and accidents.
  - Teever 6y ago
    There is an insane bug in many human minds that is easily exploited with a soft commanding voice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strip_search_phone_call_scam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strip_search_phone_call_scam
MaxBarraclough 6y ago
True, but realistically the line has to be drawn somewhere. A software malfunction in a microwave oven, or some other device with a heating element, could cause a house fire, but that software isn't regulated the way avionics software systems are. In terms of overall fatalities, distracted drivers on their phones can be expected to continue to kill far more than vehicle hackers. It's troubling though that hacking vehicles' brakes could allow for targeted attacks with little chance of being caught. The same applies to insecure medical solutions.
- flubert 6y ago
  >A software malfunction in a microwave oven, or some other device with a heating element, could cause a house fire... Now I'm curious. Does anyone know the manufacturer and model number for a microwave for which this is true? Have we really replaced hardware thermal switches, fuses, etc. with firmware?
  - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
    Perhaps microwaves have hardware protections to prevent heating when the door is open, but a software error could presumably still have it spring to life unexpectedly, which could potentially be dangerous. It's a (perversely) interesting creative exercise to think of catastrophic consequences that might follow from the failure of a system we don't normally think of as critical. Let's restrict it to physical systems, excluding concerns like being banned from Gmail, and issues like misinformation and extremism spreading through social media. • A bug in a sound driver could cause hearing damage, especially if someone is using earphones • Perhaps a bug in a graphics driver could be dangerous to people with epilepsy • A bug in a laptop's battery-management system could cause a fire on an airliner • A bug in an overclocking tool, or in motherboard firmware, wouldn't typically cause a fire, but perhaps • We know that bugs in satnav systems can cause inattentive drivers to cause serious accidents • A bug in an app about food intolerances could have severe consequences. A graphics/rendering bug, perhaps in the OS, could cause the app to misrender.
    - userbinator 6y ago
      Perhaps microwaves have hardware protections to prevent heating when the door is open, but a software error could presumably still have it spring to life unexpectedly, which could potentially be dangerous AFAIK, the magnetron power supply is physicaly connected through multiple door switches, so this is an actual unoverridable and redundant disconnect. One switch shorts out the supply when the door is opened, so that if the others fail, it will still blow the fuse and cut power. I'm pretty sure that design is due to regulation, so I don't see it ever being replaced by software.
- 6y ago

DoingIsLearning 6y ago

And that is why fail-safe is important. Most older infotainment systems have a physical power switch which is a hard interrupt to power-off. It is in my view a design mistake to have full touch-screen interfaces on infotainment.

hutzlibu 6y ago
Most older system of any kind had a physical power switch. And I still want that. To be sure, that when I turn off a device, it is really off.
sriram_malhar 6y ago
It could just be a soft commanding voice that says, "this is not an emergency. Please pull over to one side of the road and get out of the car and wait". Just that will cause enough chaos and accidents.
- Teever 6y ago
  There is an insane bug in many human minds that is easily exploited with a soft commanding voice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strip_search_phone_call_scam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strip_search_phone_call_scam

MaxBarraclough 6y ago

True, but realistically the line has to be drawn somewhere. A software malfunction in a microwave oven, or some other device with a heating element, could cause a house fire, but that software isn't regulated the way avionics software systems are. In terms of overall fatalities, distracted drivers on their phones can be expected to continue to kill far more than vehicle hackers. It's troubling though that hacking vehicles' brakes could allow for targeted attacks with little chance of being caught. The same applies to insecure medical solutions.

flubert 6y ago
>A software malfunction in a microwave oven, or some other device with a heating element, could cause a house fire... Now I'm curious. Does anyone know the manufacturer and model number for a microwave for which this is true? Have we really replaced hardware thermal switches, fuses, etc. with firmware?
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  Perhaps microwaves have hardware protections to prevent heating when the door is open, but a software error could presumably still have it spring to life unexpectedly, which could potentially be dangerous. It's a (perversely) interesting creative exercise to think of catastrophic consequences that might follow from the failure of a system we don't normally think of as critical. Let's restrict it to physical systems, excluding concerns like being banned from Gmail, and issues like misinformation and extremism spreading through social media. • A bug in a sound driver could cause hearing damage, especially if someone is using earphones • Perhaps a bug in a graphics driver could be dangerous to people with epilepsy • A bug in a laptop's battery-management system could cause a fire on an airliner • A bug in an overclocking tool, or in motherboard firmware, wouldn't typically cause a fire, but perhaps • We know that bugs in satnav systems can cause inattentive drivers to cause serious accidents • A bug in an app about food intolerances could have severe consequences. A graphics/rendering bug, perhaps in the OS, could cause the app to misrender.
  - userbinator 6y ago
    Perhaps microwaves have hardware protections to prevent heating when the door is open, but a software error could presumably still have it spring to life unexpectedly, which could potentially be dangerous AFAIK, the magnetron power supply is physicaly connected through multiple door switches, so this is an actual unoverridable and redundant disconnect. One switch shorts out the supply when the door is opened, so that if the others fail, it will still blow the fuse and cut power. I'm pretty sure that design is due to regulation, so I don't see it ever being replaced by software.
6y ago