15 ms·

I live in Michigan so I have a few thoughts about living there... If you love urban centers than Michigan might not be for you. There is Ann Arbor but it's a c

by mfer 6y ago

I live in Michigan so I have a few thoughts about living there... If you love urban centers than Michigan might not be for you. There is Ann Arbor but it's a college town and not likely what you want. Michigan has over 10,000 lakes. There are lots of parks and open state land. It's not just the tourist places like the dunes (where you can take off road vehicles on sand dunes) or rivers you can canoe on camping trips. Not far from me is a dog run (wouldn't really call it a park) that's over a hundred acres of state land. It's a chunk of a much larger thousands of acres section just meant for dogs. Other areas have horse trails and stuff. There is a lot of opportunity to enjoy the great outdoors. This is also going to mean that you aren't going to have great public transit in these places. The options are limited because it's off the beaten path.

cableshaft 6y ago
I looked into it. There's literally only 5 zip codes this applies to. Benton Harbor, St. Joseph, Bridgman, Berrien Springs, Stevensville. We do like the general area so my wife is now pushing for us to take advantage of this. I'm hesitant mainly because I don't want to move in the middle of a pandemic/get our house ready to be sold right away. Where are the large dog runs at?
- mfer 6y ago
  I'm in none of those zip codes and I've visited numerous places that were not there. Unfortunately, I could not find the large dog run on a map. I know where it is and the signs call it out if you are there. Different places have a different culture. It all kind of depends on what you're in to. For example, I know some people who love the Traverse City area and some others who have been there for a bit and are ready to move. That's an area worth looking at. If you want to be close to things and like urban-ish then there is Ann Arbor. The train to Chicago goes right through town. The express ways also make it easy to get to a lot of places as fast as you can in Michigan. While it's about as urban as it gets in Michigan you can also get out of it pretty quickly into the outdoors. Michigan has a fair amount of variety. That's why people can have such different experiences. I visited my parents the other day. On the drive down their street I passed a couple dozen wild turkeys. While I was at their house an 8 point buck walked through the back yard. The deer there know it's safe enough that you can be outside, reading, and drinking a coffee and the deer wont run off. It's a different pace of life where I am at. Not every place is like that.
  - cableshaft 6y ago
    I mean the $15k moving incentive applies only if you move to one of those 5 zip codes. It's near the bottom of www.movetomichigan.org. I think I may have passed by a dog run sign, come to think of it. Whenever we've visited we didn't have our dogs with us, though. If we moved we would try to hunt them down though. We live in the suburbs, not downtown, so we're not super urban. It would still be a bit of a culture shock to live there I think, as SW Michigan is significantly more rural than where we are at, but we mainly went for the nature.
- vmception 6y ago
  You know those stories about cities emptying out and leasing prices dropping? Thats because millions of people are moving in the middle of a pandemic, even inviting movers into their homes and driving shared uhaul trucks. If you’re “at risk” then caveat emptor, if not then “middle of a pandemic” is not an excuse for everything.
  - cableshaft 6y ago
    Without saying what specifically, there are risk factors in the family.
  - matthewdgreen 6y ago
    The downside of “doing what lots of other people are doing” during a pandemic is that when the pandemic ends, which may be a few months from now if a vaccine is effective, you’ll have placed yourself at a huge disadvantage when the same forces invert. I say this as someone who lived in NYC way back during 9/11 and thought the city would never recover. It absolutely did, almost immediately, and I felt very silly for the next decade or so.
    - vmception 6y ago
      You mean for an owner or mortgage holder? Or you got underwater and tied up with life wherever you went to? A little bit of column A a little bit of column B?
- michaelmcdonald 6y ago
  You mentioned a wife. I'm not going to presume that children are for sure in your future, but if that's something you and your wife have considered I would _strongly_ suggest you research the schools for those areas. I can comment via a previous teaching colleague that Benton Harbor was not a district you would want a child in if it could be avoided.
  - andrewem 6y ago
    I don't know anything about Benton Harbor, but here in the United States being told a town has "bad schools" tends to be very highly correlated to large non-white population. I just looked it up and oh hey, Benton Harbor's population is 89% African-American.
    - ketzo 6y ago
      Yeah. It’s a vicious cycle, particularly in predominantly-Republican/Southern states. There’s very, very, very little support for public education at a state level — or even nationally; I mean, our goddamn Secretary of Education is Betsy DeVos, who advocates for charter schools to a degree that is frankly sickening when the reality is that they are, on average, shit for the success of a community. It’s gross, and has very recent racist roots. I went to high school with kids whose parents founded “white flight” private schools in my city. It’s not that GP is racist, or something — but to deny the connection between race and public education in the US would be silly at best and malicious at worst (see, for example, Fox News/aforementioned DeVos)
      - ffggvv 6y ago
        "especially in republican states"... meanwhile LA and NY public schools in black areas are among the worst in the country despite massive amounts of funding. https://www.laweekly.com/california-is-home-to-some-of-americas-worst-public-schools/ https://www.laweekly.com/california-is-home-to-some-of-ameri...
        CaptArmchair 6y ago
andrew_ 6y ago
I lived in Michigan until I was 35 and moved south in 2013. I have a litany of reasons for moving including soul-crushing endless winters, lack of reasonable summer, depressed economy, and a political landscape without an identity and with an extremely short memory (shorter than average in my view). I also spent my summers in Northern Michigan camping and have extremely fond memories of that. For the beauty that Michigan offers, you have to really, really enjoy the winter months and do OK with a lack of sun to make it there. I struggled something awful with Seasonal Affective Disorder [1] as an adult along with Vitamin D deficiency [2]. It's also worthwhile to look at things like insurance rates, vehicle registration, and cost of utilities for the municipalities listed. Take into account school systems if you have little ones - Michigan is not widely considered to have the best around, and routinely ranks in the bottom 1/3 of the States [3]. I clearly have a lot of bias against Michigan, so please take this for what it's worth. I did try to provide some backing for my bias, but I spent a long time saving to escape and if there's anyone aligned with my concerns, I hope I saved them a trip they'd regret. [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/seasonal-affective-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20364651 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/seasonal-affe... [2] https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Michigan/annual-days-of-sunshine.php https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Michigan/annual-days-... [3] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education
- chupasaurus 6y ago
  > I have a litany of reasons for moving including soul-crushing endless winters, lack of reasonable summer, depressed economy, and a political landscape without an identity and with an extremely short memory (shorter than average in my view). Cheers from Southern Urals, had a good laugh.
  - drpgq 6y ago
    I live in Southern Ontario and now I'm wondering if I should be more depressed.
    - knrz 6y ago
dyeje 6y ago
Detroit and Grand Rapids are great urban centers.
- tolbish 6y ago
  The public transit in those cities is non-existent compared to urban centers like Chicago or Seattle.
  - myself248 6y ago
    "urban centers with mass transit" is moving the goalposts a little, isn't it?
    - jbc1 6y ago
      For many people the car free lifestyle is the main appeal of urban centres. More not being specific enough than moving goal posts imo.
    - tolbish 6y ago
      Public transit was mentioned in the original comment.
  - sheepybloke 6y ago
    I'd actually compare GR at least closer to something like Asheville, only a bit smaller. It gets decent concerts, has a nice craft drink scene and lots of fun places to go, but won't compare to some place like a Chicago or Seattle if that's what you want.

by mfer 6y ago

cableshaft 6y ago

I looked into it. There's literally only 5 zip codes this applies to. Benton Harbor, St. Joseph, Bridgman, Berrien Springs, Stevensville. We do like the general area so my wife is now pushing for us to take advantage of this. I'm hesitant mainly because I don't want to move in the middle of a pandemic/get our house ready to be sold right away. Where are the large dog runs at?

mfer 6y ago
I'm in none of those zip codes and I've visited numerous places that were not there. Unfortunately, I could not find the large dog run on a map. I know where it is and the signs call it out if you are there. Different places have a different culture. It all kind of depends on what you're in to. For example, I know some people who love the Traverse City area and some others who have been there for a bit and are ready to move. That's an area worth looking at. If you want to be close to things and like urban-ish then there is Ann Arbor. The train to Chicago goes right through town. The express ways also make it easy to get to a lot of places as fast as you can in Michigan. While it's about as urban as it gets in Michigan you can also get out of it pretty quickly into the outdoors. Michigan has a fair amount of variety. That's why people can have such different experiences. I visited my parents the other day. On the drive down their street I passed a couple dozen wild turkeys. While I was at their house an 8 point buck walked through the back yard. The deer there know it's safe enough that you can be outside, reading, and drinking a coffee and the deer wont run off. It's a different pace of life where I am at. Not every place is like that.
- cableshaft 6y ago
  I mean the $15k moving incentive applies only if you move to one of those 5 zip codes. It's near the bottom of www.movetomichigan.org. I think I may have passed by a dog run sign, come to think of it. Whenever we've visited we didn't have our dogs with us, though. If we moved we would try to hunt them down though. We live in the suburbs, not downtown, so we're not super urban. It would still be a bit of a culture shock to live there I think, as SW Michigan is significantly more rural than where we are at, but we mainly went for the nature.
vmception 6y ago
You know those stories about cities emptying out and leasing prices dropping? Thats because millions of people are moving in the middle of a pandemic, even inviting movers into their homes and driving shared uhaul trucks. If you’re “at risk” then caveat emptor, if not then “middle of a pandemic” is not an excuse for everything.
- cableshaft 6y ago
  Without saying what specifically, there are risk factors in the family.
- matthewdgreen 6y ago
  The downside of “doing what lots of other people are doing” during a pandemic is that when the pandemic ends, which may be a few months from now if a vaccine is effective, you’ll have placed yourself at a huge disadvantage when the same forces invert. I say this as someone who lived in NYC way back during 9/11 and thought the city would never recover. It absolutely did, almost immediately, and I felt very silly for the next decade or so.
  - vmception 6y ago
    You mean for an owner or mortgage holder? Or you got underwater and tied up with life wherever you went to? A little bit of column A a little bit of column B?
michaelmcdonald 6y ago
You mentioned a wife. I'm not going to presume that children are for sure in your future, but if that's something you and your wife have considered I would _strongly_ suggest you research the schools for those areas. I can comment via a previous teaching colleague that Benton Harbor was not a district you would want a child in if it could be avoided.
- andrewem 6y ago
  I don't know anything about Benton Harbor, but here in the United States being told a town has "bad schools" tends to be very highly correlated to large non-white population. I just looked it up and oh hey, Benton Harbor's population is 89% African-American.
  - ketzo 6y ago
    Yeah. It’s a vicious cycle, particularly in predominantly-Republican/Southern states. There’s very, very, very little support for public education at a state level — or even nationally; I mean, our goddamn Secretary of Education is Betsy DeVos, who advocates for charter schools to a degree that is frankly sickening when the reality is that they are, on average, shit for the success of a community. It’s gross, and has very recent racist roots. I went to high school with kids whose parents founded “white flight” private schools in my city. It’s not that GP is racist, or something — but to deny the connection between race and public education in the US would be silly at best and malicious at worst (see, for example, Fox News/aforementioned DeVos)
    - ffggvv 6y ago
      "especially in republican states"... meanwhile LA and NY public schools in black areas are among the worst in the country despite massive amounts of funding. https://www.laweekly.com/california-is-home-to-some-of-americas-worst-public-schools/ https://www.laweekly.com/california-is-home-to-some-of-ameri...
      - CaptArmchair 6y ago

andrew_ 6y ago

I lived in Michigan until I was 35 and moved south in 2013. I have a litany of reasons for moving including soul-crushing endless winters, lack of reasonable summer, depressed economy, and a political landscape without an identity and with an extremely short memory (shorter than average in my view). I also spent my summers in Northern Michigan camping and have extremely fond memories of that. For the beauty that Michigan offers, you have to really, really enjoy the winter months and do OK with a lack of sun to make it there. I struggled something awful with Seasonal Affective Disorder [1] as an adult along with Vitamin D deficiency [2]. It's also worthwhile to look at things like insurance rates, vehicle registration, and cost of utilities for the municipalities listed. Take into account school systems if you have little ones - Michigan is not widely considered to have the best around, and routinely ranks in the bottom 1/3 of the States [3]. I clearly have a lot of bias against Michigan, so please take this for what it's worth. I did try to provide some backing for my bias, but I spent a long time saving to escape and if there's anyone aligned with my concerns, I hope I saved them a trip they'd regret. [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/seasonal-affective-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20364651 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/seasonal-affe... [2] https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Michigan/annual-days-of-sunshine.php https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Michigan/annual-days-... [3] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education

chupasaurus 6y ago
> I have a litany of reasons for moving including soul-crushing endless winters, lack of reasonable summer, depressed economy, and a political landscape without an identity and with an extremely short memory (shorter than average in my view). Cheers from Southern Urals, had a good laugh.
- drpgq 6y ago
  I live in Southern Ontario and now I'm wondering if I should be more depressed.
  - knrz 6y ago

dyeje 6y ago

Detroit and Grand Rapids are great urban centers.

tolbish 6y ago
The public transit in those cities is non-existent compared to urban centers like Chicago or Seattle.
- myself248 6y ago
  "urban centers with mass transit" is moving the goalposts a little, isn't it?
  - jbc1 6y ago
    For many people the car free lifestyle is the main appeal of urban centres. More not being specific enough than moving goal posts imo.
  - tolbish 6y ago
    Public transit was mentioned in the original comment.
- sheepybloke 6y ago
  I'd actually compare GR at least closer to something like Asheville, only a bit smaller. It gets decent concerts, has a nice craft drink scene and lots of fun places to go, but won't compare to some place like a Chicago or Seattle if that's what you want.