12 ms·

The Need for Touch

134 points by okfine 6y ago

nxc18 6y ago
I don't know how common this is, but I was raised to see intimate touch as reserved exclusively for family and sexual/romantic partners. There's a pretty big mental block when it comes to touch, and I think that's made my life materially worse. Do others experience that? I grew up in New England for context. I'm somewhat fortunate that if I get particularly lonely or touch deprived, I can hop on grindr/scruff/hornet and resolve that situation pretty quickly in most cases. I hear the situation for single heterosexual men is significantly worse, but I'd like to hear others thoughts. Are there outlets for straight lonely people in need of touch? Gay dating apps have a reputation for being very sex focused, but many of the profiles I see are specifically seeking out touch/cuddling as a primary or even exclusive goal.
- shybutnotshy 6y ago
  You have to be ok with casual sex. I'm mostly not. First I don't want to catch something (aids, chlamydia, herpes, ...) so a few minutes of sex doesn't seem worth the risk. I know, at least according to popular media that puts me in the minority. If my attitude is common it's probably not easy to spot. Second, I don't want to hurt people. I know they exist but 9 times out of 10 people I meet want a serious relationship and would be hurt if we slept together than then I called it quits. I wouldn't lie to them directly but they'd feel like I was lying to them if I say, slept with them 2-3 times and then stopped seeing them. So, I basically don't get into it in the first place unless I believe that I'd like to be with them longer term. Of those people that could be more casual usually issue 1 comes up. They sleep around so they are more likely to have something and plus I don't want my heart broken. Third, I'm also someone who just wants one person not just for sex but for love and companionship so my attitude is bad when meeting / looking for people. My attitude is "can I see myself being with this person long term" instead of "would it be fun to be with this person for the moment". That answer is quite often "no, I can't see myself being with this person long term". I don't think that's that strange of a thought. A stereotype of a story is the person that doesn't think this way and has lots of failed relationships for choosing superficial qualities of attractiveness as their reason for getting into a relationship. But, at least they had a relationship. Anyway, the sum of those 3 things and possibly some bad luck being in jobs which have few members of the opposite sex and friends that have few friends of the opposite sex means I haven't had a relationship for ~17 years. I hope every day that will change, I frequent 5 dating sites. I have matches. But getting something started seems really hard. I would do much better if I went to church (I'm atheist) or did some activity where I got to know people over time and become friends first. I've gone to several meetups but if they are truly about something I care about they usually have few members of the opposite sex. I've been to a few otherwise but it's been the same bad luck I guess. No one I'm interested in or no one that shows interest.
  - flatline 6y ago
    I don’t think you are particularly unusual in your wants and needs, but there may be some other issues if you have been trying and failing to have any sort of romantic relationship for 17 years.
    - guskel 6y ago
      Some people fall through the cracks and don't build enough dating experience while young to navigate the dating scene, only compounding the difficulty more and moreso as their peers zoom ahead.
      - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
        The fact that there is such a thing as a "dating scene" is quite telling already - in just that phrasing it's already depicted as a different world, like idk, accounting vs waste processing in careers. I and many others aren't up for a career switch like that. Thankfully I met my GF through the nerdy side of the internet - an area I'm much more comfortable on.
  - saiya-jin 6y ago
    You are doing the right thing I believe - taking relationships seriously. Maybe a bit too seriously but that's up to discussion. I am the same. Low quality relationship does way more harm than good to a normal balanced person, so like elsewhere quality beats quantity. What I can recommend to you, maybe cliche but it works and worked for me - start some physical workout. If you are unfit start gently, adapt your body to it. Do something that you +-enjoy, you will not stay with activity you hate for too long. Progress in it, in a pace that suits you (or not, and do it more often - that's progress too). Consistency is the key. What it brings is not only looking better, but actually feeling much better about oneself. More confidence, happiness. This is something women perceive very well and it elevates your status. One will usually start eating healthier too. What women look for is generally competence, the more you bring to the table the easier is to find the matching partner. At one point, you can start being picky and choose based either on looks (not so smart approach if the main criterion) or personality and compatibility with you. That way, exposing oneself in various social groups does bring many more encounters and stops being such a frustrating futile experience it once was. At least that's my path, and there is good logic in it.
- germinalphrase 6y ago
  I’ma Brazilian Jiu jitsu player. The sport has a great deal of depth to technique and the physical exertion can be quite intense/rewarding; however, I do believe that the physical touch (and implicit trust therein) are an important aspect as well. It’s aggressive, but neither violent or sexual. Most of my training partners could severely injure me at any time, but I expose myself physically and trust them not to.
  - cookingrobot 6y ago
    This comment reminds me of why it’s fun to dance in a mosh pit, which is probably the most combative thing I’ve done.
    - Fnoord 6y ago
      That really depends on the audience though. There's also different types of moshpits.
  - elric 6y ago
    Long time judoka chiming in. Both BJJ and judo are impossible without constant touch. The only time you're not touching someone during practice/competition is when you're bowing to one another or are doing some solo warmup exercises. I've been doing this since I was 6, so I can safely say that this greatly increases tolerance/comfort for being touched by complete strangers. When teaching children or adolescents you sometimes get strange looks from parents, because things can look a bit weird in ground holds.
  - spaetzleesser 6y ago
    That’s a good point. Even in boxing you do a lot of touching and also the concept of “private space” isn’t valid there either.
  - mr_overalls 6y ago
    I'm a long-time judoka. I took it up as a very awkward teenager, and it had incalculable benefits for my social comfort and development. And I've seen it do the same for others, beyond what might be expected for an athletic/social hobby. Part of the effect seems straightforward enough - self-confidence at gaining newfound abilities, exercise, socializing, maintaining emotional self-regulation while engaging in controlled "fighting", etc. But I think there is also something to the mere act of touching other humans and being touched several times a week. As the article suggests, it's comforting, fulfilling a basic human need. I wonder how this all plays out in the brain - can someone with a neuroscience background comment? Is the sense of touch specifically connected to brain areas of social well-being? Edit: "Many neuroscientists and psychologists believe that we have a dedicated system just for the perception of social – affective – touch distinct from the one that we use to touch objects. This system seems to be able to selectively recognise caress-like touch; this is then processed in the insula, a brain area connected to maintaining our sense of self and an awareness of our body. Slow, caress-like touch is not only important for our survival, but also for our cognitive and social development: for example, it can influence the way we learn to identify and recognise other people from early in life." https://aeon.co/essays/touch-is-a-language-we-cannot-afford-to-forget https://aeon.co/essays/touch-is-a-language-we-cannot-afford-...
- throwawi 6y ago
  Heterosexual male here. I think the last time I touched anyone was when I hugged my mom when she visited me 3 months ago, and before that I don't think I touched anyone for the 6 months since I broke up with my gf. After finishing college I moved to basically the middle of nowhere for my tech job without knowing anyone in the area. Wasn't proactive enough making friends, and because of my gf at the time I didn't seek out any women. We broke up right as the pandemic started, which may have been the worst possible time. I'm not sure if it's because it's been so long that I touched anyone, but I don't get touch deprived as often as I would have expected. Sure there are times occasionally where I feel really lonely, but so far it's been pretty easy to brush that off. However, taking care of my mental health has been nearly a full time job. I make sure to exercise daily, I picked up guitar and mountain biking, and I blocked all social media I see as toxic (reddit, youtube, facebook. HN is okay in moderation). I my sleep schedule in check with targeted melatonin and bluelight filters. Keeping up with old friends and family is also essential. My running theory is that touch is certainly a positive, but it isn't essential if the other parts of your life are kept in shape. Although shortening that list of mental health tasks to something more manageable does sound enticing. I've never been good at dating though, and with the double whammy of it being quarantine and not having a local friend group I'm not really sure how to solve that problem. Dating advice might be a bit off topic for HN though, considering temporarily unblocking reddit.
  - throw4reasons 6y ago
    I coexist with my wife (and 3 year old) but we came to the conclusion that we are utterly incompatible and cooled off the romantic part completely. I hoped things would turn around but the pandemic and wfh exacerbated the problem. I only play with my child (+ the daily hug) but other than that I haven't touched anybody in more than a year and am somewhat somewhat fine with it. I am aware that I am not replacing the need for a partner with the affection for the child but simply accept the situation for now.
    - giardini 6y ago
      You should read the short article "Why You Should Forget the Past" by Rolf Dobelli at http://meaningring.com/2016/03/07/why-you-should-forget-the-past-by-rolf-dobelli/ http://meaningring.com/2016/03/07/why-you-should-forget-the-...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- klyrs 6y ago
  I grew up on the west coast and married somebody from new England, who described "us" as straight exactly once. Awkward. They were hyper possessive about touch. It was so weird to me. People with hangups about sex seem to sexualize everything.
- anon9001 6y ago
  > Are there outlets for straight lonely people in need of touch? In short, no. In practice, onlyfans and right-wing politics? That's what seems to be happening instead.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Some people pursue activities like dance. You can also pay for massages. Some people aren't aware of this as a need. Others have mental blocks. But if you really want it (I mean without sex), it is possible to arrange it and some people do so.
- Santosh83 6y ago
  It has been months, maybe more than a year, since I touched anyone. It is possible, though hard, to overcome this "need"... it is not really the same kind of need as hunger or thirst. It can be sublimated into other activities if you don't keep stressing and agonising about it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- scottlocklin 6y ago
  New Englandah here. More or less the same upbringing you describe, where intimate touch is reserved for sexual partners and family members. I don't agree, though, that it's made my life materially worse in any way, and articles like OP actively give me the heeby jeebies. I find touchy-feely people and the West Coast hugs newage (rhymes with sewage) quasi-surf-brah culture to be generally fake and creepy. Yeah, you have to hug babies or they come out broken: that doesn't mean you have to hug everyone all the time, or that grown adults have some USRDA specified minimum required human touch. The idea that there are people so lonely and isolated that they pine for hugs is, of course, deeply sad, but that's a problem with loneliness; not some mechanical need that can be fulfilled the way you can cure a vitamin deficiency by popping a pill, which is certainly what this article implies. Random people, including (perhaps especially including) very lonely people invading my space are not appreciated. The article itself is filled with ridiculous pleonasms and nonsense statements: >The language of touch also affects the way that we relate to ourselves and our bodies across the lifespan, with profound impacts on our psychological wellbeing WTF does this even mean? Followed by "citations needed." >As a scientist, but also as a fellow human, I claim the right to touch, and to dream of a reality where no one will be touchless. Get away from me creepy science lady! In all seriousness, this is article is a load of West Coast american New Age horse shit. There are entire cultures of no-touchy people: for example, the Nordics, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese. They tend to be more long-lived, happy and vastly more free of mental illness than West Coast Americanos who gabble on about muh therapeutic touch (and who also post HN articles about the mystical wisdom of .... Nordics and Japanese when it comes to their ancient and mysterious customs such as going outside sometimes[0][1]). There's something infantile and needy about over-touchers. Cultures which have different conceptions of shared space (I dunno southern Europeans, Arabs) also have plenty of boundaries -the touchy feely types don't, and I think the latter are the ones with problems. Lonely people: if you have something that prevents you from making friends in the ordinary way, please buy a dog or something and leave us non-touchy feely people alone. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20877796 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20877796 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24886440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24886440
  - randomperson321 6y ago
    Should those really be considered "no touch" cultures? I would assume most couples, even within those cultures, touch each other frequently.
- JimBlackwood 6y ago
  I’m lucky to have a group of friends that’s very open to touch. I often have a night with a male/female friend and we’ll sit cuddled up on the sofa playing a game/watching a movie. In terms of dating apps for heterosexual men, I don’t think it’s that bad. There’s a lot of women that are up for just having a conversation and from that a friendship can spark where cuddling is perfectly fine.
- ryandward 6y ago
  There's something fundamentally different that seems to cut cleanly along cultures. Growing up in a Mexican culture, I have always been taught to be chaste and pious, but it just isn't something I internalized. Instead, my peers were a much bigger influence. It seems more common in some other cultural contexts to internalize this kind of self-denial with overtones of purity. Even as a gay man, I never found the need for dating apps, since there isn't as much of a binary distinction between friends/acquaintances and romantic partners.
- bradlys 6y ago
  There are people who call themselves cuddle therapists. Might want to look into that. It isn’t supposed to be sexual as far as I know. I was the same as you until I was about 21. Up until I was 18, everyone in the community I grew up in would say that if two boys touched each other then it was a gay act. And since everyone was deeply homophobic... no men touched each other. I see this culture in many places still even in places like the Bay Area. Men don’t touch and rarely hug. Mostly handshakes or something. Anyway, I grew out of that by moving to a big city and learning dance when I was 18. Started with swing dancing (Lindy hop, Charleston, etc) then progressed to others. Mostly so I could be close to cute ladies! As I aged, I learned dances that involved a connection spanning from the thigh all the way to the head... like you were in a full contact hug. And sometimes there weren’t enough women to practice with or some of the men wanted to follow, so we had to switch around. And I learned to follow too because I wanted to get better. Getting close to men became less weird and touching people became uneventful. One particular act of this community that danced this way was that they would hug after practically every dance. It was common to hug during arrival and leaving of dances too. It didn’t matter who you were or if you knew each other, as long as the dance wasn’t painful then you would hug. So, even if you didn’t do the full body connection (it was an option) then you still experienced a significant form of touch at the end with hugs. Anyway, I got used to touch and now it’s weird to be out in the world. I did all those things for so long that I’m completely open to hugging and touch unlike I was in the past. Sometimes me and a person will have a good interaction and reach a good conclusion during a meeting, my natural reaction now is to go for a hug and be like, “nice. Glad we got that done.” But gotta resist that as it’s pretty weird to do in the workplace but totally normal for me. One of my best friends is an engineer from a more rural part of the country. We’ve hugged maybe a half dozen times over the years. She’s not comfortable hugging men even if they’re her best friend. I see this as normal for most of the US and it’s unfortunate. Touching men is just some weird taboo in the US unless you’re their romantic partner.
worik 6y ago
In my world people are always hugging me. It used to annoy me, but I am used to it now, in fact I like it - from people I like. I almost never initiate a hug except to my most intimate family members I have had the bother of people being predatory sexually and touching me. Really annoying. I am a straightish man in my fifties. In Aotearoa
- tacheiordache 6y ago
  Not sure if I am a little bit on the spectrum but I feel very awkward when I hug someone other than partner/family member. I get very self conscious about whether I do the right move, like where should I put my right hand, how about left hand, where do i look, etc. I hugged a friend/girl and without thinking I touched my chest to hers and was tapping on her back while at the same time realizing it wasn't appropriate and then trying to brush off the awkward feeling. I found myself doing that here and there, especially with someone I am not very familiar with. I feel like others know the social protocol without ever learning it explicitly while I somehow missed to pick it up along the way. I was a shy kid but was perfectly normal in smaller circles of friends or school.
  - pengaru 6y ago
    I suspect you're probably just overthinking it WRT feeling inappropriate about hugging close with a friend. Hugs are relatively harmless, and most people who willingly engage in a hug aren't going to protest when they receive a solid one.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    not sure how helpful this is, but if you deliberately look for it, you'll find that many people who seem to "know the social protocol" actually do lots of awkward stuff and make faux pas all the time. as long as the person isn't aware that they're being awkward, no one seems to notice. unfortunately this is sort of a catch-22. if you feel awkward about something, people will probably notice and perceive it that way also. I try to at least pretend that I don't feel awkward in these situations, which kinda works. it's sorta like the phenomenon where nobody questions a person with a hi-vis and a clipboard.
abdullahkhalids 6y ago
In my country (Pakistan), hugging between men and hugging between women is extremely common. If n close friends are meeting, you will see Choose(n,2) hugs. The lack of hugs was indeed the strangest part of my time in Canada. Why not show the love.
- xutopia 6y ago
  I live in Canada (Quebec) and I have to say that there are less hugs here even than in the anglophone areas. My friends know me as a hugger though and a lot have told me they look forward to my hugs.
orasis 6y ago
Guys, try Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. It is non-sexual and will fill your well-being cup to the brim.
Dumblydorr 6y ago
I don't agree that touch is the most important sense. For me, vision and hearing both come out far ahead. Where would I be without Chopin's music, without the sound of my friends' instruments as we jam, without the loving voices of friends and family? Where would I be without vision, I couldn't see the works of Monet, Van Gogh, Miyazaki, Blizzard, Bethesda, or practically all code and screens and UI? Touch feels nice, but as an American man, I was taught to touch only when necessary, lest the other person find it over the line. The OP author is an Italian female, so there's a cultural abd gender difference no doubt. But personally, I don't miss shaking hands or hugging, nevermind cheek kissing.
- bluntfang 6y ago
  >Touch feels nice, but as an American man, I was taught to touch only when necessary, lest the other person find it over the line. What? You must not watch sports then. High fives. Butt slaps. Chest bumps. etc. In fact, we might even say that there's a big problem with men inappropriately touching people, just look at the next potential Leader of the Free World, they both have a reputation for inappropriate touching. If you can be President of the United States while also "Grab 'em [women] by the pussy", I think we're being taught as men that we can easily get away with inappropriate touching.
  - phizy 6y ago
    If your go-to examples of male touch are reserved for brief celebratory gestures and "inappropriate" touching, then it would seem you're not effectively making the point you're attempting to make. Neither of these examples indicate that touching is normal, common, or considered appropriate. Why did you think they would? Do you often find truth by generalizing from exceptions?
    - bluntfang 6y ago
      Can you talk more about how professional athletes and the highest level of government are exceptions? Those people are in the spotlight more than most people, except maybe actors...but the film industry seems to have the same message.
nbzso 6y ago
I love to simplify things. Designers curse, may be:) Some friendly advice for man seeking harmony with women long term: Relationship must be sexually compatible first, chemistry is the base, clear uncontrolled want reaction must come after touch and smell. This is good thing. Next is communication with humor, if you can compliment sexual compatibility with instinctive positive reaction you are a hitting the bingo. The big jackpot is a layer on top, of intellectual exchange and mutual motivation in exploring your minds. The big problem is that this trinity of compatibility is very rare, so if you can - stick with first two elements. Your future children will thank you from the bottom of their hearts. On a case of touch, I think that OP thesis is overblown. People are different, the issue of touch is complex and must be approached with caution. Just my 2c:)

134 points by okfine 6y ago

I don't know how common this is, but I was raised to see intimate touch as reserved exclusively for family and sexual/romantic partners. There's a pretty big mental block when it comes to touch, and I think that's made my life materially worse. Do others experience that? I grew up in New England for context. I'm somewhat fortunate that if I get particularly lonely or touch deprived, I can hop on grindr/scruff/hornet and resolve that situation pretty quickly in most cases. I hear the situation for single heterosexual men is significantly worse, but I'd like to hear others thoughts. Are there outlets for straight lonely people in need of touch? Gay dating apps have a reputation for being very sex focused, but many of the profiles I see are specifically seeking out touch/cuddling as a primary or even exclusive goal.

shybutnotshy 6y ago
You have to be ok with casual sex. I'm mostly not. First I don't want to catch something (aids, chlamydia, herpes, ...) so a few minutes of sex doesn't seem worth the risk. I know, at least according to popular media that puts me in the minority. If my attitude is common it's probably not easy to spot. Second, I don't want to hurt people. I know they exist but 9 times out of 10 people I meet want a serious relationship and would be hurt if we slept together than then I called it quits. I wouldn't lie to them directly but they'd feel like I was lying to them if I say, slept with them 2-3 times and then stopped seeing them. So, I basically don't get into it in the first place unless I believe that I'd like to be with them longer term. Of those people that could be more casual usually issue 1 comes up. They sleep around so they are more likely to have something and plus I don't want my heart broken. Third, I'm also someone who just wants one person not just for sex but for love and companionship so my attitude is bad when meeting / looking for people. My attitude is "can I see myself being with this person long term" instead of "would it be fun to be with this person for the moment". That answer is quite often "no, I can't see myself being with this person long term". I don't think that's that strange of a thought. A stereotype of a story is the person that doesn't think this way and has lots of failed relationships for choosing superficial qualities of attractiveness as their reason for getting into a relationship. But, at least they had a relationship. Anyway, the sum of those 3 things and possibly some bad luck being in jobs which have few members of the opposite sex and friends that have few friends of the opposite sex means I haven't had a relationship for ~17 years. I hope every day that will change, I frequent 5 dating sites. I have matches. But getting something started seems really hard. I would do much better if I went to church (I'm atheist) or did some activity where I got to know people over time and become friends first. I've gone to several meetups but if they are truly about something I care about they usually have few members of the opposite sex. I've been to a few otherwise but it's been the same bad luck I guess. No one I'm interested in or no one that shows interest.
- flatline 6y ago
  I don’t think you are particularly unusual in your wants and needs, but there may be some other issues if you have been trying and failing to have any sort of romantic relationship for 17 years.
  - guskel 6y ago
    Some people fall through the cracks and don't build enough dating experience while young to navigate the dating scene, only compounding the difficulty more and moreso as their peers zoom ahead.
    - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
      The fact that there is such a thing as a "dating scene" is quite telling already - in just that phrasing it's already depicted as a different world, like idk, accounting vs waste processing in careers. I and many others aren't up for a career switch like that. Thankfully I met my GF through the nerdy side of the internet - an area I'm much more comfortable on.
- saiya-jin 6y ago
  You are doing the right thing I believe - taking relationships seriously. Maybe a bit too seriously but that's up to discussion. I am the same. Low quality relationship does way more harm than good to a normal balanced person, so like elsewhere quality beats quantity. What I can recommend to you, maybe cliche but it works and worked for me - start some physical workout. If you are unfit start gently, adapt your body to it. Do something that you +-enjoy, you will not stay with activity you hate for too long. Progress in it, in a pace that suits you (or not, and do it more often - that's progress too). Consistency is the key. What it brings is not only looking better, but actually feeling much better about oneself. More confidence, happiness. This is something women perceive very well and it elevates your status. One will usually start eating healthier too. What women look for is generally competence, the more you bring to the table the easier is to find the matching partner. At one point, you can start being picky and choose based either on looks (not so smart approach if the main criterion) or personality and compatibility with you. That way, exposing oneself in various social groups does bring many more encounters and stops being such a frustrating futile experience it once was. At least that's my path, and there is good logic in it.
germinalphrase 6y ago
I’ma Brazilian Jiu jitsu player. The sport has a great deal of depth to technique and the physical exertion can be quite intense/rewarding; however, I do believe that the physical touch (and implicit trust therein) are an important aspect as well. It’s aggressive, but neither violent or sexual. Most of my training partners could severely injure me at any time, but I expose myself physically and trust them not to.
- cookingrobot 6y ago
  This comment reminds me of why it’s fun to dance in a mosh pit, which is probably the most combative thing I’ve done.
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    That really depends on the audience though. There's also different types of moshpits.
- elric 6y ago
  Long time judoka chiming in. Both BJJ and judo are impossible without constant touch. The only time you're not touching someone during practice/competition is when you're bowing to one another or are doing some solo warmup exercises. I've been doing this since I was 6, so I can safely say that this greatly increases tolerance/comfort for being touched by complete strangers. When teaching children or adolescents you sometimes get strange looks from parents, because things can look a bit weird in ground holds.
- spaetzleesser 6y ago
  That’s a good point. Even in boxing you do a lot of touching and also the concept of “private space” isn’t valid there either.
- mr_overalls 6y ago
  I'm a long-time judoka. I took it up as a very awkward teenager, and it had incalculable benefits for my social comfort and development. And I've seen it do the same for others, beyond what might be expected for an athletic/social hobby. Part of the effect seems straightforward enough - self-confidence at gaining newfound abilities, exercise, socializing, maintaining emotional self-regulation while engaging in controlled "fighting", etc. But I think there is also something to the mere act of touching other humans and being touched several times a week. As the article suggests, it's comforting, fulfilling a basic human need. I wonder how this all plays out in the brain - can someone with a neuroscience background comment? Is the sense of touch specifically connected to brain areas of social well-being? Edit: "Many neuroscientists and psychologists believe that we have a dedicated system just for the perception of social – affective – touch distinct from the one that we use to touch objects. This system seems to be able to selectively recognise caress-like touch; this is then processed in the insula, a brain area connected to maintaining our sense of self and an awareness of our body. Slow, caress-like touch is not only important for our survival, but also for our cognitive and social development: for example, it can influence the way we learn to identify and recognise other people from early in life." https://aeon.co/essays/touch-is-a-language-we-cannot-afford-to-forget https://aeon.co/essays/touch-is-a-language-we-cannot-afford-...
throwawi 6y ago
Heterosexual male here. I think the last time I touched anyone was when I hugged my mom when she visited me 3 months ago, and before that I don't think I touched anyone for the 6 months since I broke up with my gf. After finishing college I moved to basically the middle of nowhere for my tech job without knowing anyone in the area. Wasn't proactive enough making friends, and because of my gf at the time I didn't seek out any women. We broke up right as the pandemic started, which may have been the worst possible time. I'm not sure if it's because it's been so long that I touched anyone, but I don't get touch deprived as often as I would have expected. Sure there are times occasionally where I feel really lonely, but so far it's been pretty easy to brush that off. However, taking care of my mental health has been nearly a full time job. I make sure to exercise daily, I picked up guitar and mountain biking, and I blocked all social media I see as toxic (reddit, youtube, facebook. HN is okay in moderation). I my sleep schedule in check with targeted melatonin and bluelight filters. Keeping up with old friends and family is also essential. My running theory is that touch is certainly a positive, but it isn't essential if the other parts of your life are kept in shape. Although shortening that list of mental health tasks to something more manageable does sound enticing. I've never been good at dating though, and with the double whammy of it being quarantine and not having a local friend group I'm not really sure how to solve that problem. Dating advice might be a bit off topic for HN though, considering temporarily unblocking reddit.
- throw4reasons 6y ago
  I coexist with my wife (and 3 year old) but we came to the conclusion that we are utterly incompatible and cooled off the romantic part completely. I hoped things would turn around but the pandemic and wfh exacerbated the problem. I only play with my child (+ the daily hug) but other than that I haven't touched anybody in more than a year and am somewhat somewhat fine with it. I am aware that I am not replacing the need for a partner with the affection for the child but simply accept the situation for now.
  - giardini 6y ago
    You should read the short article "Why You Should Forget the Past" by Rolf Dobelli at http://meaningring.com/2016/03/07/why-you-should-forget-the-past-by-rolf-dobelli/ http://meaningring.com/2016/03/07/why-you-should-forget-the-...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
klyrs 6y ago
I grew up on the west coast and married somebody from new England, who described "us" as straight exactly once. Awkward. They were hyper possessive about touch. It was so weird to me. People with hangups about sex seem to sexualize everything.
anon9001 6y ago
> Are there outlets for straight lonely people in need of touch? In short, no. In practice, onlyfans and right-wing politics? That's what seems to be happening instead.
DoreenMichele 6y ago
Some people pursue activities like dance. You can also pay for massages. Some people aren't aware of this as a need. Others have mental blocks. But if you really want it (I mean without sex), it is possible to arrange it and some people do so.
Santosh83 6y ago
It has been months, maybe more than a year, since I touched anyone. It is possible, though hard, to overcome this "need"... it is not really the same kind of need as hunger or thirst. It can be sublimated into other activities if you don't keep stressing and agonising about it.
deleted 6y ago
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scottlocklin 6y ago
New Englandah here. More or less the same upbringing you describe, where intimate touch is reserved for sexual partners and family members. I don't agree, though, that it's made my life materially worse in any way, and articles like OP actively give me the heeby jeebies. I find touchy-feely people and the West Coast hugs newage (rhymes with sewage) quasi-surf-brah culture to be generally fake and creepy. Yeah, you have to hug babies or they come out broken: that doesn't mean you have to hug everyone all the time, or that grown adults have some USRDA specified minimum required human touch. The idea that there are people so lonely and isolated that they pine for hugs is, of course, deeply sad, but that's a problem with loneliness; not some mechanical need that can be fulfilled the way you can cure a vitamin deficiency by popping a pill, which is certainly what this article implies. Random people, including (perhaps especially including) very lonely people invading my space are not appreciated. The article itself is filled with ridiculous pleonasms and nonsense statements: >The language of touch also affects the way that we relate to ourselves and our bodies across the lifespan, with profound impacts on our psychological wellbeing WTF does this even mean? Followed by "citations needed." >As a scientist, but also as a fellow human, I claim the right to touch, and to dream of a reality where no one will be touchless. Get away from me creepy science lady! In all seriousness, this is article is a load of West Coast american New Age horse shit. There are entire cultures of no-touchy people: for example, the Nordics, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese. They tend to be more long-lived, happy and vastly more free of mental illness than West Coast Americanos who gabble on about muh therapeutic touch (and who also post HN articles about the mystical wisdom of .... Nordics and Japanese when it comes to their ancient and mysterious customs such as going outside sometimes[0][1]). There's something infantile and needy about over-touchers. Cultures which have different conceptions of shared space (I dunno southern Europeans, Arabs) also have plenty of boundaries -the touchy feely types don't, and I think the latter are the ones with problems. Lonely people: if you have something that prevents you from making friends in the ordinary way, please buy a dog or something and leave us non-touchy feely people alone. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20877796 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20877796 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24886440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24886440
- randomperson321 6y ago
  Should those really be considered "no touch" cultures? I would assume most couples, even within those cultures, touch each other frequently.
JimBlackwood 6y ago
I’m lucky to have a group of friends that’s very open to touch. I often have a night with a male/female friend and we’ll sit cuddled up on the sofa playing a game/watching a movie. In terms of dating apps for heterosexual men, I don’t think it’s that bad. There’s a lot of women that are up for just having a conversation and from that a friendship can spark where cuddling is perfectly fine.
ryandward 6y ago
There's something fundamentally different that seems to cut cleanly along cultures. Growing up in a Mexican culture, I have always been taught to be chaste and pious, but it just isn't something I internalized. Instead, my peers were a much bigger influence. It seems more common in some other cultural contexts to internalize this kind of self-denial with overtones of purity. Even as a gay man, I never found the need for dating apps, since there isn't as much of a binary distinction between friends/acquaintances and romantic partners.
bradlys 6y ago
There are people who call themselves cuddle therapists. Might want to look into that. It isn’t supposed to be sexual as far as I know. I was the same as you until I was about 21. Up until I was 18, everyone in the community I grew up in would say that if two boys touched each other then it was a gay act. And since everyone was deeply homophobic... no men touched each other. I see this culture in many places still even in places like the Bay Area. Men don’t touch and rarely hug. Mostly handshakes or something. Anyway, I grew out of that by moving to a big city and learning dance when I was 18. Started with swing dancing (Lindy hop, Charleston, etc) then progressed to others. Mostly so I could be close to cute ladies! As I aged, I learned dances that involved a connection spanning from the thigh all the way to the head... like you were in a full contact hug. And sometimes there weren’t enough women to practice with or some of the men wanted to follow, so we had to switch around. And I learned to follow too because I wanted to get better. Getting close to men became less weird and touching people became uneventful. One particular act of this community that danced this way was that they would hug after practically every dance. It was common to hug during arrival and leaving of dances too. It didn’t matter who you were or if you knew each other, as long as the dance wasn’t painful then you would hug. So, even if you didn’t do the full body connection (it was an option) then you still experienced a significant form of touch at the end with hugs. Anyway, I got used to touch and now it’s weird to be out in the world. I did all those things for so long that I’m completely open to hugging and touch unlike I was in the past. Sometimes me and a person will have a good interaction and reach a good conclusion during a meeting, my natural reaction now is to go for a hug and be like, “nice. Glad we got that done.” But gotta resist that as it’s pretty weird to do in the workplace but totally normal for me. One of my best friends is an engineer from a more rural part of the country. We’ve hugged maybe a half dozen times over the years. She’s not comfortable hugging men even if they’re her best friend. I see this as normal for most of the US and it’s unfortunate. Touching men is just some weird taboo in the US unless you’re their romantic partner.

worik 6y ago

In my world people are always hugging me. It used to annoy me, but I am used to it now, in fact I like it - from people I like. I almost never initiate a hug except to my most intimate family members I have had the bother of people being predatory sexually and touching me. Really annoying. I am a straightish man in my fifties. In Aotearoa

tacheiordache 6y ago
Not sure if I am a little bit on the spectrum but I feel very awkward when I hug someone other than partner/family member. I get very self conscious about whether I do the right move, like where should I put my right hand, how about left hand, where do i look, etc. I hugged a friend/girl and without thinking I touched my chest to hers and was tapping on her back while at the same time realizing it wasn't appropriate and then trying to brush off the awkward feeling. I found myself doing that here and there, especially with someone I am not very familiar with. I feel like others know the social protocol without ever learning it explicitly while I somehow missed to pick it up along the way. I was a shy kid but was perfectly normal in smaller circles of friends or school.
- pengaru 6y ago
  I suspect you're probably just overthinking it WRT feeling inappropriate about hugging close with a friend. Hugs are relatively harmless, and most people who willingly engage in a hug aren't going to protest when they receive a solid one.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  not sure how helpful this is, but if you deliberately look for it, you'll find that many people who seem to "know the social protocol" actually do lots of awkward stuff and make faux pas all the time. as long as the person isn't aware that they're being awkward, no one seems to notice. unfortunately this is sort of a catch-22. if you feel awkward about something, people will probably notice and perceive it that way also. I try to at least pretend that I don't feel awkward in these situations, which kinda works. it's sorta like the phenomenon where nobody questions a person with a hi-vis and a clipboard.

abdullahkhalids 6y ago

In my country (Pakistan), hugging between men and hugging between women is extremely common. If n close friends are meeting, you will see Choose(n,2) hugs. The lack of hugs was indeed the strangest part of my time in Canada. Why not show the love.

xutopia 6y ago
I live in Canada (Quebec) and I have to say that there are less hugs here even than in the anglophone areas. My friends know me as a hugger though and a lot have told me they look forward to my hugs.

orasis 6y ago

Guys, try Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. It is non-sexual and will fill your well-being cup to the brim.

Dumblydorr 6y ago

I don't agree that touch is the most important sense. For me, vision and hearing both come out far ahead. Where would I be without Chopin's music, without the sound of my friends' instruments as we jam, without the loving voices of friends and family? Where would I be without vision, I couldn't see the works of Monet, Van Gogh, Miyazaki, Blizzard, Bethesda, or practically all code and screens and UI? Touch feels nice, but as an American man, I was taught to touch only when necessary, lest the other person find it over the line. The OP author is an Italian female, so there's a cultural abd gender difference no doubt. But personally, I don't miss shaking hands or hugging, nevermind cheek kissing.

bluntfang 6y ago
>Touch feels nice, but as an American man, I was taught to touch only when necessary, lest the other person find it over the line. What? You must not watch sports then. High fives. Butt slaps. Chest bumps. etc. In fact, we might even say that there's a big problem with men inappropriately touching people, just look at the next potential Leader of the Free World, they both have a reputation for inappropriate touching. If you can be President of the United States while also "Grab 'em [women] by the pussy", I think we're being taught as men that we can easily get away with inappropriate touching.
- phizy 6y ago
  If your go-to examples of male touch are reserved for brief celebratory gestures and "inappropriate" touching, then it would seem you're not effectively making the point you're attempting to make. Neither of these examples indicate that touching is normal, common, or considered appropriate. Why did you think they would? Do you often find truth by generalizing from exceptions?
  - bluntfang 6y ago
    Can you talk more about how professional athletes and the highest level of government are exceptions? Those people are in the spotlight more than most people, except maybe actors...but the film industry seems to have the same message.

nbzso 6y ago

I love to simplify things. Designers curse, may be:) Some friendly advice for man seeking harmony with women long term: Relationship must be sexually compatible first, chemistry is the base, clear uncontrolled want reaction must come after touch and smell. This is good thing. Next is communication with humor, if you can compliment sexual compatibility with instinctive positive reaction you are a hitting the bingo. The big jackpot is a layer on top, of intellectual exchange and mutual motivation in exploring your minds. The big problem is that this trinity of compatibility is very rare, so if you can - stick with first two elements. Your future children will thank you from the bottom of their hearts. On a case of touch, I think that OP thesis is overblown. People are different, the issue of touch is complex and must be approached with caution. Just my 2c:)