4 ms·

I wonder if mask wearing is the biggest factor and more generally, willingness to comply with restrictions due to experiencing SARS. Japan's politicans are no

I wonder if mask wearing is the biggest factor and more generally, willingness to comply with restrictions due to experiencing SARS. Japan's politicans are no less incompetent than other 1st world countries and geographically they should be much worse off but their cases are way down compared to other places.

makomk 6y ago
I'm not sure Japan had a geographical disadvantage. Generally speaking, the closer countries were to Italy the worse they seemed to do at least at first, and Japan is a long way from Italy.
- mannykannot 6y ago
  The physical-proximity model has a problem with Italy’s distance from China.
  - harambae 6y ago
    There were workers in the Italian fashion industry who came straight from Wuhan. That was the whole reason they had a step-function for initial infection.
    - mannykannot 6y ago
      Precisely - physical distance is not a relevant measure.
      - makomk 6y ago
        You're right that what actually matters is the number of people travelling between countries - social, rather than physical, geography - but for the most part actual physical distance from Italy seemed to be a good approximation of that, maybe with the exception of the UK and New York. The reason why Italy was the epicenter is a bit of a mystery though. There's hints they screwed up their Covid testing and managed, pretty much uniquely among Western countries, to not actually test people hospitalized with potential symptoms who didn't have links to travellers from China, meaning that they only detected community spread when someone who did happen to have contact with someone who travelled from there caught it from someone else. But there doesn't seem to be much coverage of this at least in English-language media; everyone's focused on arguing that their country did worse than Italy because Italy was caught by suprise, whereas everyone else had them as a warning, without examining how they ended up getting caught by surprise. It's also not a full explanation. Possibly it just came down to random chance.
        medium_burrito 6y ago
        There are more than a few entire factories run by Chinese and staffed by Chinese in Italy. That's your answer.
nradov 6y ago
The official case numbers in Japan probably drastically undercount the number of infections due to limited testing. A recent antibody seroprevalence study found 46% positive. It wasn't a truly random sample but had a large study population from multiple locations. If mask wearing is such a big factor than how did so many people get infected? https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.21.20198796v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.21.20198796v...
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  Because Japan's population is so elderly, any severe undercount of infections would show up as very large excess mortality, but that hasn't been observed.
  - nradov 6y ago
    Then how do you explain the study results linked above?

makomk 6y ago

I'm not sure Japan had a geographical disadvantage. Generally speaking, the closer countries were to Italy the worse they seemed to do at least at first, and Japan is a long way from Italy.

mannykannot 6y ago
The physical-proximity model has a problem with Italy’s distance from China.
- harambae 6y ago
  There were workers in the Italian fashion industry who came straight from Wuhan. That was the whole reason they had a step-function for initial infection.
  - mannykannot 6y ago
    Precisely - physical distance is not a relevant measure.
    - makomk 6y ago
      You're right that what actually matters is the number of people travelling between countries - social, rather than physical, geography - but for the most part actual physical distance from Italy seemed to be a good approximation of that, maybe with the exception of the UK and New York. The reason why Italy was the epicenter is a bit of a mystery though. There's hints they screwed up their Covid testing and managed, pretty much uniquely among Western countries, to not actually test people hospitalized with potential symptoms who didn't have links to travellers from China, meaning that they only detected community spread when someone who did happen to have contact with someone who travelled from there caught it from someone else. But there doesn't seem to be much coverage of this at least in English-language media; everyone's focused on arguing that their country did worse than Italy because Italy was caught by suprise, whereas everyone else had them as a warning, without examining how they ended up getting caught by surprise. It's also not a full explanation. Possibly it just came down to random chance.
      - medium_burrito 6y ago
        There are more than a few entire factories run by Chinese and staffed by Chinese in Italy. That's your answer.

nradov 6y ago

The official case numbers in Japan probably drastically undercount the number of infections due to limited testing. A recent antibody seroprevalence study found 46% positive. It wasn't a truly random sample but had a large study population from multiple locations. If mask wearing is such a big factor than how did so many people get infected? https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.21.20198796v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.21.20198796v...

lern_too_spel 6y ago
Because Japan's population is so elderly, any severe undercount of infections would show up as very large excess mortality, but that hasn't been observed.
- nradov 6y ago
  Then how do you explain the study results linked above?