4 ms·

Would they though? I think that's a shallow outlook, the importance of saving lives doesn't lessen once you become wealthy. Everyone has to watch their friends

Would they though? I think that's a shallow outlook, the importance of saving lives doesn't lessen once you become wealthy. Everyone has to watch their friends and family get old and sick eventually. Compare that to a lot of technology jobs. I think my friends and family will be fine if the schedule at Netflix slips and they have to wait a few years to watch sitcoms in 8K. (Edit: I don't mean to disparage anyone working on this type of problem, but I personally would find it hard to motivate myself to care deeply about that)

im3w1l 6y ago
A doctor gets to see the smiles that are the fruit of his labor. The engineer gets to see some metric move by a tenth of a percent.
- horsawlarway 6y ago
  I think it's actually much worse than this. A doctor can be fairly certain that a healthy, smiling patient is unequivocally a good thing. A thing to feel proud about. An engineer is often tasked with moving a metric they don't personally believe to be meaningful, or worth while. If I'm told that "We're prioritizing new user activation and engagement" and my team's quarterly review will be based on how I move that metric, it's soul sucking to realize that the optimal way to engage new users happens to also be objectively worse for our existing users. There is no unequivocal "Good" for me to do. I'm not really doing "Good" at all, I'm just making bank for an employer that: A - Won't return the favor in any meaningful sense. B - Is of questionable business acumen (Is trading old customers for new customers a viable strategy? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't get to see the discussion and understand the trade-offs that were discussed). C - Clearly values metrics that correlate to profit over any real pride in their product. ---- Once you dispense with the idea that you're actually helping people with your profession, the only real motivator left is money. Money certainly matters (anyone who says otherwise is lying) but every dollar has a diminishing return on motivation. If I can pay mortgage/utilities/food and still have enough cash for a night out or a nice drink every now and then, I no longer want more money - I want more fulfilling work. That might mean making smiles. That might mean having more control. That might mean working on a task that judges excellence more objectively than "Making lots of profit".
- ofrzeta 6y ago
  I think that paints an overly romantic picture of being a doctor. In reality you have to work with a bureaucratic health system where there's never enough time for each patient. Also patients might not be as willing to cooperate as you wish (as an example I recently read about cholesterol medication where many doctors advised a healthy lifestyle opposed to medication but many patients just weren't willing or able to change theirs but prefer medication). Getting patients to smile is certainly satisfying but it's also not that easy.
- WJW 6y ago
  That is a pretty optimistic view of the medical world. Almost all doctors also have to deal with massive bureaucracy, endless budget shortages, 16 hour workdays, night shifts and people under their care dying despite their best efforts.
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    > people under their care dying despite their best efforts It’s like projects under my care dying despite my best efforts. Except that, you know, nobody dies and the only thing wasted was my life.
shay_ker 6y ago
How many doctors would still do the job if they got paid a middle class salary? It's pretty clear, to me at least, that very few would even bother. Veterinarians are a good comparison - there's very few, low salaries, passionate about animals, and high suicide rates due to unending debt. Yes - some doctors end up volunteering with Doctors without Borders & similar non-profit groups. Some engineers have gotten more political as time goes on. But if the money isn't there, doctors will definitely not be there either.
- jes5199 6y ago
  the doctors I know make less money than the programmers I know
- burntoutfire 6y ago
  In Poland, being a doctor paid a pittance up until around 2005. Your only shot at a decent income was taking bribes (the medicine is socialized, so doctors are in charge in state's resources and, when bribed, will direct them at you) or starting a private practice, but for that you'd usually have to be 40+ years old. And yet, people did become doctors and worked hard. It was still a respectable profession, and hard to get into. Maybe Poland is (or was) just less materialistic than the US.
  - shay_ker 6y ago
    Sure I'm not saying there will be 0 doctors if the salary was lower, but there would certainly be a lot less.
- slumdev 6y ago
  > How many doctors would still do the job if they got paid a middle class salary? Nearly all of them. The most common specialties do pay middle-class salaries. The very highest salaries (almost all in surgical specialties) skew the mean quite a bit, but the median is not as high as you think it is. It hasn't been a lifestyle profession for 20 years.
  - 6y ago

im3w1l 6y ago

A doctor gets to see the smiles that are the fruit of his labor. The engineer gets to see some metric move by a tenth of a percent.

horsawlarway 6y ago
I think it's actually much worse than this. A doctor can be fairly certain that a healthy, smiling patient is unequivocally a good thing. A thing to feel proud about. An engineer is often tasked with moving a metric they don't personally believe to be meaningful, or worth while. If I'm told that "We're prioritizing new user activation and engagement" and my team's quarterly review will be based on how I move that metric, it's soul sucking to realize that the optimal way to engage new users happens to also be objectively worse for our existing users. There is no unequivocal "Good" for me to do. I'm not really doing "Good" at all, I'm just making bank for an employer that: A - Won't return the favor in any meaningful sense. B - Is of questionable business acumen (Is trading old customers for new customers a viable strategy? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't get to see the discussion and understand the trade-offs that were discussed). C - Clearly values metrics that correlate to profit over any real pride in their product. ---- Once you dispense with the idea that you're actually helping people with your profession, the only real motivator left is money. Money certainly matters (anyone who says otherwise is lying) but every dollar has a diminishing return on motivation. If I can pay mortgage/utilities/food and still have enough cash for a night out or a nice drink every now and then, I no longer want more money - I want more fulfilling work. That might mean making smiles. That might mean having more control. That might mean working on a task that judges excellence more objectively than "Making lots of profit".
ofrzeta 6y ago
I think that paints an overly romantic picture of being a doctor. In reality you have to work with a bureaucratic health system where there's never enough time for each patient. Also patients might not be as willing to cooperate as you wish (as an example I recently read about cholesterol medication where many doctors advised a healthy lifestyle opposed to medication but many patients just weren't willing or able to change theirs but prefer medication). Getting patients to smile is certainly satisfying but it's also not that easy.
WJW 6y ago
That is a pretty optimistic view of the medical world. Almost all doctors also have to deal with massive bureaucracy, endless budget shortages, 16 hour workdays, night shifts and people under their care dying despite their best efforts.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  > people under their care dying despite their best efforts It’s like projects under my care dying despite my best efforts. Except that, you know, nobody dies and the only thing wasted was my life.

shay_ker 6y ago

How many doctors would still do the job if they got paid a middle class salary? It's pretty clear, to me at least, that very few would even bother. Veterinarians are a good comparison - there's very few, low salaries, passionate about animals, and high suicide rates due to unending debt. Yes - some doctors end up volunteering with Doctors without Borders & similar non-profit groups. Some engineers have gotten more political as time goes on. But if the money isn't there, doctors will definitely not be there either.

jes5199 6y ago
the doctors I know make less money than the programmers I know
burntoutfire 6y ago
In Poland, being a doctor paid a pittance up until around 2005. Your only shot at a decent income was taking bribes (the medicine is socialized, so doctors are in charge in state's resources and, when bribed, will direct them at you) or starting a private practice, but for that you'd usually have to be 40+ years old. And yet, people did become doctors and worked hard. It was still a respectable profession, and hard to get into. Maybe Poland is (or was) just less materialistic than the US.
- shay_ker 6y ago
  Sure I'm not saying there will be 0 doctors if the salary was lower, but there would certainly be a lot less.
slumdev 6y ago
> How many doctors would still do the job if they got paid a middle class salary? Nearly all of them. The most common specialties do pay middle-class salaries. The very highest salaries (almost all in surgical specialties) skew the mean quite a bit, but the median is not as high as you think it is. It hasn't been a lifestyle profession for 20 years.
- 6y ago