5 ms·

Saying Wayland is just non-functional for reasonable use-cases without significant user workarounds (usually going back a decade in execution and clarity) isn't

Saying Wayland is just non-functional for reasonable use-cases without significant user workarounds (usually going back a decade in execution and clarity) isn't toxic culture, it's the truth. Yes, people can work on what they want. By the same logic, anyone can say that the direction they're taking is bad.

sergeykish 6y ago
I believe you assert that Wayland failure is that is not ready for end user. Strange point, it should have been burned 10 years ago than. I use X.Org, works perfectly in Arch Linux, some claim problems on in their distribution. It should be critique of that distribution. > Chromium is making its first shy bumbling steps towards actually working on Wayland And Firefox support is behind MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1 flag. Clearly Wayland is in "early adopters" stage. Early adopters should not whine. > By the same logic, anyone can say that the direction they're taking is bad. You've clearly not watched presentation. Some people know better than developer of that technology. It would be insult on my job. I've had enough people stating "technical debt is not real". > Dear Google Cloud: Your Deprecation Policy Is Killing You Open source is nothing like Google deprecating its services, anyone can run code, but it is naive to expect free indefinite support. Truth is you are not going to maintain X.Org.
- utxaa 6y ago
  this is all going to end in X12.
  - pzone 6y ago
    Wayland is X12.
  - sergeykish 6y ago
    you would preach but you would not contribute
    - ubercow13 6y ago
      I don't see anything wrong with that.
    - utxaa 6y ago
      you mean i would predict but not contribute? yes.
      - sergeykish 6y ago
        no, like in "preach the end of the world", contribution and prediction requires intimate knowledge, preaching does not
        eesmith 6y ago
        My grandfather was a preacher and a millennialist, which means he thought the world would end soon. He based this out of his intimate knowledge of the Bible, spanning over 60 years of study. He was also a missionary who starting churches and had a radio show. Surely that fulfills both contribution and prediction. I therefore disagree with your characterization. Now, he appears to have been wrong, but just like preachers may be wrong, critics may also be right even without contribution.
        sergeykish 6y ago
        I am sorry for your grandfather. He knew Bible and he was right by his interpretation of Bible. In programming world word is reality, there is only one meaning. Those who know word forge reality. This requires knowledge. Critics who do not posses knowledge appeal to emotions, spread FUD. They may be right by coincidence like standing clocks.
        eesmith 6y ago
        What one meaning does "preach" have in the programming world? Because I think you used it wrong.
cipherboy 6y ago
I strongly disagree. Since switching to Fedora almost 4 years ago, I've only booted to X.org once, three years ago. I haven't needed it since. I do browser-based screensharing (of both individual windows and the whole screen), I have a mixed DPI monitor setup, I've played games on Steam, &c. I need no workarounds. GNOME just works. About the only things I don't use are nvidia's crappy drivers.
- phone8675309 6y ago
  nVidia is the overwhelming leader in GPUs that people care about, so if you don't mind excluding the majority then it sounds like a great direction. Hope it works out for you.
  - sergeykish 6y ago
    There is nothing Wayland can do about "nvidia's crappy drivers". GamingOnLinux stats — AMD GPU 40% and raising. https://www.gamingonlinux.com/index.php?module=statistics&view=trends https://www.gamingonlinux.com/index.php?module=statistics&vi...
    - phone8675309 6y ago
      40% is still less than the majority, and Wayland chose to break compatibility with X11 drivers, so they get to own half of this breakage
      - sergeykish 6y ago
        I expect they do not target world domination. Anyone who wants stable, performant GPU today can buy AMD. Future is here. That's Wayland target. I live in the past — Intel GPU, X.Org, xmonad. I've thought to wait a few more years but I've checked Sway, it works. I'll check waymonad, maybe it works, maybe I'll make it work. Wayland GNOME and KDE works with NVIDIA. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/wayland#Requirements https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/wayland#Requirements
  - 6y ago

sergeykish 6y ago

I believe you assert that Wayland failure is that is not ready for end user. Strange point, it should have been burned 10 years ago than. I use X.Org, works perfectly in Arch Linux, some claim problems on in their distribution. It should be critique of that distribution. > Chromium is making its first shy bumbling steps towards actually working on Wayland And Firefox support is behind MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1 flag. Clearly Wayland is in "early adopters" stage. Early adopters should not whine. > By the same logic, anyone can say that the direction they're taking is bad. You've clearly not watched presentation. Some people know better than developer of that technology. It would be insult on my job. I've had enough people stating "technical debt is not real". > Dear Google Cloud: Your Deprecation Policy Is Killing You Open source is nothing like Google deprecating its services, anyone can run code, but it is naive to expect free indefinite support. Truth is you are not going to maintain X.Org.

utxaa 6y ago
this is all going to end in X12.
- pzone 6y ago
  Wayland is X12.
- sergeykish 6y ago
  you would preach but you would not contribute
  - ubercow13 6y ago
    I don't see anything wrong with that.
  - utxaa 6y ago
    you mean i would predict but not contribute? yes.
    - sergeykish 6y ago
      no, like in "preach the end of the world", contribution and prediction requires intimate knowledge, preaching does not
      - eesmith 6y ago
        My grandfather was a preacher and a millennialist, which means he thought the world would end soon. He based this out of his intimate knowledge of the Bible, spanning over 60 years of study. He was also a missionary who starting churches and had a radio show. Surely that fulfills both contribution and prediction. I therefore disagree with your characterization. Now, he appears to have been wrong, but just like preachers may be wrong, critics may also be right even without contribution.
        sergeykish 6y ago
        I am sorry for your grandfather. He knew Bible and he was right by his interpretation of Bible. In programming world word is reality, there is only one meaning. Those who know word forge reality. This requires knowledge. Critics who do not posses knowledge appeal to emotions, spread FUD. They may be right by coincidence like standing clocks.
        eesmith 6y ago
        What one meaning does "preach" have in the programming world? Because I think you used it wrong.

cipherboy 6y ago

I strongly disagree. Since switching to Fedora almost 4 years ago, I've only booted to X.org once, three years ago. I haven't needed it since. I do browser-based screensharing (of both individual windows and the whole screen), I have a mixed DPI monitor setup, I've played games on Steam, &c. I need no workarounds. GNOME just works. About the only things I don't use are nvidia's crappy drivers.

phone8675309 6y ago
nVidia is the overwhelming leader in GPUs that people care about, so if you don't mind excluding the majority then it sounds like a great direction. Hope it works out for you.
- sergeykish 6y ago
  There is nothing Wayland can do about "nvidia's crappy drivers". GamingOnLinux stats — AMD GPU 40% and raising. https://www.gamingonlinux.com/index.php?module=statistics&view=trends https://www.gamingonlinux.com/index.php?module=statistics&vi...
  - phone8675309 6y ago
    40% is still less than the majority, and Wayland chose to break compatibility with X11 drivers, so they get to own half of this breakage
    - sergeykish 6y ago
      I expect they do not target world domination. Anyone who wants stable, performant GPU today can buy AMD. Future is here. That's Wayland target. I live in the past — Intel GPU, X.Org, xmonad. I've thought to wait a few more years but I've checked Sway, it works. I'll check waymonad, maybe it works, maybe I'll make it work. Wayland GNOME and KDE works with NVIDIA. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/wayland#Requirements https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/wayland#Requirements
- 6y ago