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I stopped using zoom after they shut down accounts because people were discussing the Tiananmen Square Massacre. That they would continue to support the CCP’s

• dimitrios1 6y ago
  I have found Jitsi meet to be not only a suitable replacement, but for video streaming quality, superior.
  • cyberbanjo 6y ago
    I've only ever used zoom in browser but jitsi does use more resources, in my experience ,on Linux. but the grand scheme of things my workflow only uses video calling a few times a week. I can spare the compute to spare myself the privacy.
  • drdeadringer 6y ago
    A social//religious group I am apart of has been using Jitsi for our virtual meetings in lieu of physically meeting in person. It is great and has been for months -- so much so that I forget if I've ever used Zoom.
• ThrowawayR2 6y ago
  > "I stopped using zoom after they shut down accounts because people were discussing the Tiananmen Square Massacre." Now, now, many HN readers in recent political threads have piously reminded us that corporations have no obligation to allow speech they don't want to host and it's perfectly okay for corporations to deplatform things because it would never be used in bad way. Surely, they could not be wrong? Surely...?
  • kevinh 6y ago
    I haven't seen anyone hold that platforms shouldn't be allowed to deplatform things and that people shouldn't be free to choose to stop using them because of those decisions. Can you point me to a comment that says that?
    • whateveracct 6y ago
      Some people can't think in anything more than black and white it seems :/
    • FeepingCreature 6y ago
      I think platforms shouldn't be allowed to deplatform things, fwiw. So now you've seen one such person. :)
      • jhardy54 6y ago
        Why do you believe that private companies should be coerced into hosting content they disagree with? Seems rather dystopian and authoritarian to me.
        • FeepingCreature 6y ago
          Because I value individual over corporate freedom. It's authoritarian in the sense that, say, the GPL is authoritarian. It restricts one freedom to widen another.
          • pertymcpert 6y ago
            What's a platform?
            • FeepingCreature 6y ago
              I would apply this to any company offering a service or product to the general public.
• microcolonel 6y ago
  Zoom is the CCP; they are separated only by the vaguest legal fictions.
• oefrha 6y ago
  > It’s not comparable to companies operating in western democratic countries. This line made me grin. Ironically enough, YouTube and Facebook also censored the exact same event that sparked this later event. (Actually the role of YouTube in this episode makes the parent comment doubly funny, considering "banned at Google" is listed as evidence that Zoom is evil™.) I found out when trying to learn who exactly Leila Khaled is from Wikipedia. There was apparently even an "End Jew Hatred on Zoom" protest in front of Zoom headquarters demanding Zoom to cancel the event, pictured in [3]. Of course now Zoom’s getting all the flak because any bad PR for them can be pinned on you know who, and fed to an existing narrative. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leila_Khaled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leila_Khaled [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20200927005246/https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/09/25/zoom-refuses-stream-university-event-featuring-member-terrorist-organization https://web.archive.org/web/20200927005246/https://www.insid... [3] https://www.jweekly.com/2020/09/22/after-protest-zoom-will-not-host-s-f-state-event-featuring-leila-khaled/ https://www.jweekly.com/2020/09/22/after-protest-zoom-will-n... [4] https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/zoom-criticised-cancelling-leila-khaled-webinar https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/zoom-criticised-cancellin... [5] https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/24/21453935/zoom-facebook-youtube-cancel-talk-leila-khaled-san-francisco-state-university https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/24/21453935/zoom-facebook-yo...
  • fossuser 6y ago
    It’s not because western companies never do the wrong thing (ignoring the specifics of your example). They do and I specifically address this in the long form blog post I linked. They’re not comparable because the western companies are not doing this due to the threat of retaliation from their own government. There’s more nuance here (which I address in that blog post). I wrote that so I wouldn’t have to rewrite the same stuff every time this issue comes up. The reason I said it’s not comparable to companies operating in western democratic countries is because otherwise the first reply every time I write something like this is a false equivalence about how the “<insert western country here> is the same if not worse...” which is just not true.
    • BoorishBears 6y ago
• PrinceKropotkin 6y ago
  Ironically this link is only a few notches above "GitLab ceases operations in Iran". Sure, it's a different situation and arguably not a comparable form of censorship, but it's certainly a case of a state leaning on companies to adjust who they do business with. I would argue with far more substantial, immediate harm....
• loosetypes 6y ago
  > I stopped using zoom Does anyone actually use zoom outside of a work capacity where they have the autonomy to make such a decision? On the job, could such a decision not be sufficient grounds for firing?
  • afarrell 6y ago
    yes. For example, my wife hosts a weekly videochat with our friends.
    • loosetypes 6y ago
      That’s fair. I’ve assumed thus far that using it socially was more zeitgeist than substance, only to pass like the sourdough starter phase. Among my friend group it’s hard to find a reason to use it over, say, ad hoc FaceTime calls. But I recognize that’s not a position everyone is in or wants to be in. And preferences vary.
      • srtjstjsj 6y ago
        You're in an extreme filter bubble. FaceTime doesn't work on Android, PC, Linux, or Chromebook.
        • 3AC51854 6y ago
          Close to 50%[1][2][3] of smartphones in the US are Apple. A "bubble," perhaps, but nothing extreme about it. [1]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/236550/percentage-of-us-population-that-own-a-iphone-smartphone/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/236550/percentage-of-us-... [2]: https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-share/ https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-sh... [3]: https://blog.technavio.com/blog/iphone-market-share https://blog.technavio.com/blog/iphone-market-share
  • telesilla 6y ago
    Yes, I'm seeing about 1/2 zoom non-work meetings among friends when scheduling remote birthday parties or shared events - they got free training at work and feel comfortable using it. What a win for Zoom.
• GrayTextIsTruth 6y ago
  > It’s not comparable to companies operating in western democratic countries. You read the article? It's censoring due to pressure from Israeli (democratic) and jewish lobbies over talks of Palestinian liberation.
• vmception 6y ago
  I don't mind the CCP's paternal approach to platform content and I don't find it unethical for a company to comply with them. I don't live my day worried that people won't discuss one event from 30 years ago without reprisal. I understand that the idea of a public sector entity being a parent is a line in the sand, but it doesn't offend me that it is done - over there - and that some companies - over here - create a user experience that is congruent with that. I find the user experience pretty pleasant. The simple reality is that not every topic is about whats happening on the other side of the Gobi desert, or what happened 30 years ago. There are just other things to talk about and it is more normal to compartmentalize this sentiment, instead of conflating every action occurring in China with things grimmest things that party did. Because we don't do that anywhere else.
  • mdorazio 6y ago
    "paternal approach" is the most ridiculously white washed term I've heard used for the CCP's historical information practices... ever.
    • vmception 6y ago
      their paternal approach covers much more than censoring strife.
  • toxik 6y ago
    Right, so you basically reject the ideals of the enlightenment. This is very unusual among western peoples because we have seen what that leads to. Rejection of these ideals is essentially the bedrock under which the tripartite pact was formed during WWII. No, I think standing up for the right to integrity and autonomy for the individual is worth more than some economic output. Let the CCP pretend otherwise, I am sure humanity is made up of individuals, not masses to be herded like so much cattle.
    • vmception 6y ago
      > This is very unusual among western peoples Yes, I've noticed. The primary nuance with China is the contradiction created in their constitution. Their need - and historical rationale from various civil wars and stalemates - to "uphold territorial unity" is an element that undermines all the other articles in their constitution. The consolidation of control and single party exacerbates that, but there is primarily an inability of the courts to rule against this aspect of the constitution in support of other aspects of the constitution that would support free speech and other freedoms of association. Outside of China, we have a caricature of what people there care about, and it is simply not accurate. Outside of China, we act like everyone is a victim, imagining they are all oppressed in their ability to speak about or learn more about a military massacre. But that's simply not the case. The government keeps everything "rated PG", it spends most of its paternal energy doing that, and its pretty successful at doing that, the outcome is pretty benign and people support that. This is the expectation people have from their government, this is the social contract there. Many corporate walled gardens are the same, and service providers work inside of those walled gardens, this doesn't make the service provider unethical. I think it is disingenuous to be automatically offended just because a public sector entity acts this way.
• Thorrez 6y ago
  > That they would continue to support the CCP’s interests under a banner of “operating within the laws of the country” is not a surprise. It seems that China actually supports Palestine[1]. Why does banning this talk align with CCP's interests? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Palestine_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Palestine_relati...
• dheera 6y ago
  On the other hand, Zoom is unblocked in China and most of the other clients are blocked. For many doing cross-border communication with China it's either Wechat or Zoom, there aren't really any other choices. So maybe they're complying with Chinese government requests for business reasons more than anything else.
• baja_blast 6y ago
  One thing that always bothered me about Zoom is the fact you need to download their software. I prefer the safety and convenience of video chat through the browser. Downloading and executing software is too risky IMO.