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On the topic of how overexercise can damage the heart by James OKeefe, a cardiologist and lifetime obsessive runner: Notably he points out that they tested peo
by andrewstuart 6y ago
On the topic of how overexercise can damage the heart by James OKeefe, a cardiologist and lifetime obsessive runner:
Notably he points out that they tested people blood after doing long distance events and found that many of them had chemicals usually found in heart attack victims, indicating heart damage.
Basically he says that the long term overexercise/heart damage means the heart muscle constantly has microtears which heal up and the healed tissue is scar tissue which is hard and not like normal heart tissue - much harder and less elastic. So people who overtrain end up with a heart much older than their physical age.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0
Transcript:
https://singjupost.com/run-for-your-life-at-a-comfortable-pace-and-not-too-far-by-james-okeefe-transcript/ https://singjupost.com/run-for-your-life-at-a-comfortable-pa...
Another video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g8eEYwtfSo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g8eEYwtfSo
And from another author on extreme exercise and the heart:
https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/extreme-exercise-and-the-heart https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/extreme-...
- nostromo 6y agoAll of the science I've been seeing lately in this area seem to say, 1. short-term high-intensity training (sprints, for example) and 2. weightlifting are the best forms of exercise for general health. Running marathons and the like do not seem to promote health and can actually harm the body. And anecdotally, I've known a few folks that are obsessive long-distance runners and cyclists, and they physically look older than others in their age group.
- boyband6666 6y agoIf you are training properly at running however, then you are doing high intensity exercise. The track repeats, the hill reps, they are that high intensity interval training, with easier runs the rest of the time. The idea that running is just shuffling along at a steady pace is a straw man, and looks nothing like what actual runners do!
- nostromo 6y agoThe whole point of HIT is that you get all of the cardiovascular benefits of endurance sports without the repetitive stress injuries. And the current evidence is that your maximum exertion is what matters, not time spent exercising. So someone that does a few sprints, to max intensity, over 20 minutes actually will have better cardiovascular health than someone that runs or jogs for an hour or more. If you’re sprinting at full exertion for a few minutes, you’re able to hit a much higher max than you would if you were running long distance.
- bluntfang 6y agoGP's point is that long distance runners are also doing HIIT if their training is managed properly.
- scruple 6y agoI'd love to see links to this research because it contradicts everything I know and have read regarding physical adaptations in our aerobic and anaerobic systems. Specifically, it is my understanding that you need the minimum effective dose in both to force those adaptations and then maintain them.
- enjeyw 6y agoI'm naive in the space so take this with a grain of salt, but I believe the original Tabata study[0] showed comparable increases in participant VO_2 max compared to non-HIIT, with only a 4 minute workout. Put that alongside evidence that sustained exercise (how sustained I have no idea) has negative effects (as per above comments), and the argument seems plausible. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_training#Tabata_regimen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_traini...
- scruple 6y agoI am familiar with the original Tabata study. I guess my point here is that it's been widely accepted, at least for the last decade or so (Dr. Maffetone was figuring some of this out in the early 80s, FWIW...), that HIIT (and strength training) cause concentric cardiac hypertrophy, whereas LISS primarily causes eccentric cardiac hypertrophy. I'm speaking very generally here, but... 1 increases the size of your heart, thus the volume of blood and therefore oxygen (it has to pump less to deliver oxygen to your muscles leading to a lower BPM), and the other makes your heart stronger (it can pump all of this extra blood). This is all of course a very unscientific explanation and I'm not an expert.
- samstave 6y ago>Running marathons and the like do not seem to promote health and can actually harm the body. I mean, the literal original Greek Marathon Runner who ran the 26 miles to warn of the war/invasion, according to lore, actually killed him upon his delivery of the message....
- ahelwer 6y agoThem looking older is probably just the gaunter look associated with endurance sports (low muscle mass, low body fat). It's especially noticeable in the face, where cheek & jaw bones will stand out. I happen to like the look; gives people's faces more character. Sun damage probably also contributes.
- itake 6y agoto add, the sports listed also typically involve long periods of sun exposure.
- comeonseriously 6y agoI can concur, I've had family members who ran obsessively and they looked 10 years older than they were. They weren't causal runners, their lives revolved around running.
- samstave 6y agoThe {sp?} Haji tribe in Africa walk ~30+ miles a day - and they are said to have the best heart health... Imagine, a Japanese (mostly fish+seaweed) diet + walking 30 miles a day, and how healthy that pop would be...
- drenvuk 6y agocitation for the tribe please. i can't find anything.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- DoreenMichele 6y agoI'm a big fan of walking. Unless you are literally wheelchair bound, most people can walk. Most of us don't do enough of it and it's one of the safest forms of exercise. We really should be designing our cities and built environments to be more walkable so more people get in 30 minutes of brisk walking daily just from running errands without really trying to exercise per se. People would be healthier. Pollution levels would be lower. Studies show that walkable, mixed use neighborhoods foster higher sales for local businesses and are thus typically more prosperous. "Eyes on the street" is a known antidote to crime and you get that primarily by having a pedestrian-friendly built environment. And I don't believe walking has any track record of fostering heart attacks.
- choeger 6y agoThat's a very good idea, until you realize how specialized the modern city is. How many people does a single supermarket serve? How many a bakery, dentist, bicycle shop, etc.? Walkable means about 2-3km away, and that's not as the crow flies. If you really want that kind of city, you end up with something pretty dense. Personally I would prefer a tad more space.
- DoreenMichele 6y agoI live in a small town. America used to have a lot of thriving small towns with lively downtown areas. I am interested in seeing more support for that sort of thing. Not everyone lives in the big city. Not everyone needs to. Even within the big city, there is lots of room for improvement. And making it possible for more people to run some of their errands on foot doesn't mean "You aren't allowed to leave this 5 square kilometer area and can never drive or use public transit." It just means some of the things you do normally can be reached on foot (for a greater percentage of people than is true currently).
- choeger 6y agoI should have mentioned that I live in europe. By US standards, our cities are extremely walkable. That being said, I have three super markets that I regularly buy from. Two of them are in walkable distance (when carrying few groceries). For the third, cheapest, I have to use either a car or a cargo bike.
- yters 6y agoAnecdote I was told by a hospice medic is athletic people's hearts tended to outlast their life, i.e. at the end the only thing going was their heart. Also, there is supposedly a study showing 30 min of jogging 4 times a week halves a person's heart risk.
- Waterluvian 6y agoI'm surprised (okay, maybe completely unsurprised) just how much evidence keeps pointing me towards the same conclusion about how to maximize for a long, fulfilled life: all things in moderation.
- slothtrop 6y agoThe trouble with "everything in moderation" is that moderation is an ambiguous, catch-all term. It means different things to different people. It's the mantra of the obese and unhealthy. Ultimately we strive for moderation, but ought not without consideration as to what it should entail.
- Waterluvian 6y agoYes it is incredibly important to qualify what exactly moderation is. Which is why these studies are rather important.
- nradov 6y agoSerious competitors will accept any risk in order to win. That might not be ideal for long term health but look how many take PEDs despite the side effects. It's the same thing with intense training programs.