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> this seems outrageous the same way DMCA'ing a Bittorrent client would be Why stop there? I can use my browser to illegally download content, so I guess we b
by CivBase 6y ago
> this seems outrageous the same way DMCA'ing a Bittorrent client would be
Why stop there? I can use my browser to illegally download content, so I guess we better issue a DMCA takedown that too. But who even needs a browser? Let's issue a takedown for the GNU Project while we're at it because I could use wget to do the same thing. In fact, I could write my own program to illegally download content, so we better just get rid of computers altogether.
Stop attacking useful tools just because they can be used to do bad things! Youtube-dl should obviously change their README to get rid of the copyright-infringing example, but this DMCA takedown is otherwise rotten from the core.
- perardi 6y agocURL could be used to download pornography. Think of the children!
- azinman2 6y agoIt’s about primary purpose.
- teej 6y agoYou could make a case that the primary purpose of the internet is to download porn.
- marv3lls 6y agoAvenue Q already has! https://youtu.be/kV7ou6pl5wU https://youtu.be/kV7ou6pl5wU
- fche 6y ago"purpose" this is the "inverse teleological fallacy", q.v.
- korijn 6y agoIn that case, let's see what we can do with a gun...
- awakener62 6y agoNo wait lets go one more layer down. Lets attack the net and socket c/c++ libraries as they can also be used to download a little bit of pron.
- boogies 6y agoIt could download instructions and coordinating communication for drug manufacturing, money laundering, and terrorism! Add them to pædo porn and you have the Four Horsemen of the Infopocalypse! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...
- nmlnn 6y agoAnd people could use human brains to store that information. We need read/write access to your mind just to be safe!
- deelowe 6y agoWhy stop there? Telnet can be used. Or what about wireshark? Let's ban those too. While we're at it, C++ can be used and other programming languages as well. We could keep going. This whole thing is silly.
- mseidl 6y agoIf a kid can use curl, then they deserve the porn.
- boogies 6y agoNot everyone considers porn a reward, and not everyone who’s curious about it is guaranteed not to regret it later.
- einpoklum 6y ago> Think of the children! Suggesting people "think of the children" as they download porn is perhaps not the best advice.
- mulmen 6y agoDoes cURL feature "here's how to download porn" anywhere in the code base or documentation?
- cesarb 6y ago> Let's issue a takedown for the GNU Project while we're at it because I could use wget to do the same thing. In fact, I could write my own program to illegally download content, so we better just get rid of computers altogether. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html (1997)
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ev1 6y agoI think the argument here is that explicitly, you can't with wget. youtube-dl specifically has circumventions for access controls for things like encrypted HLS, YouTube's ciphered player, etc.
- lukifer 6y agoIt's kind of amazing that computing in general, and the internet in particular, is as open and free as it is (contrast with the closed end-to-end "appliance" model of gaming consoles, or to some extent iOS). Cory Doctorow has been ringing alarm bells for over a decade about both technical and legal efforts to end general purpose computation itself, or at least to make it more the exception than the norm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUEvRyemKSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUEvRyemKSg https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Coming_War_on_General_Computation https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Coming_War_on_General_Com...
- dmos62 6y ago> end general purpose computation itself, or at least to make it more the exception than the norm I'd argue, cautiously, that general computation is already an exception. That's why I prefer Linux to Windows. On Linux I can issue a command from a general command interface (the CLI) to just play a video. If I only want audio, it's an option away. I can script things together. Most of my tools are interoperable. That's because I use FOSS, free protocols, free formats, free tech in general. Everything works together and everything augments each other. Windows, the popular workstation, is no that. It's a system of systems, where everything is a monolithic closed box that you can't get inside. It's inside your computer, you use it, but it's not yours. It's on loan from someone else. Interoperability is virtually non-existent, and there isn't such a thing as a usable CLI (an environment that would connect everything together). That's not general computing, I argue. General computing involves ther power to generalize, use the computing technology in arbitrary ways. Closed software, customer lock-in and all that other corporate bs is the anti-thesis of that. Longer rant than expected. I find it a frustrating issue. Mostly because I intimately feel like we're paying a very high price for the greed of the few.
- Scene_Cast2 6y agoOne thing that might be coming up is CPUs reducing the user capability to fully control the system (regardless of whether you run Linux or Windows). One such example is Intel ME. In the future, if the compute paradigm shifts towards something cloud-like, we might all be "stuck" inside an isolated Intel SGX container (or vice versa).
- eli 6y agoDMCA is a bad law, but you'd have a harder time arguing a general purpose web browser meets any of the following conditions: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201 (2)No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that— (A)is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; (B)has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or (C)is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person’s knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.
- rmrfstar 6y agoYou could probably scratch out A and B by emphasizing how useful youtube-dl is for grabbing local copies of MIT licensed university lectures. C is harder, given the README.md examples.
- nitrogen 6y agoBut what DRM "technological measure" is being circumvented?
- prutschman 6y agoAs I understand it, there are two definitions of technological measure in the DMCA. One is in the anti-circumvention portion, the other in the anti-cirvumvention-tool portion. In the latter case: 17 U.S.C. Sec. 1201 (b)(2) (B): a technological measure "effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title" if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, prevents, restricts, or otherwise limits the exercise of a right of a copyright owner under this title.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- mmaunder 6y agoThis logic could have been used to outright ban dual cassette tape decks in the 80s. Why not ban the pen, since it can be used to hand copy books. RIAA needs to stay in their lane.
- Lex-2008 6y agoCan't find a better source, but something like this tried to happen, indeed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Taping_Is_Killing_Music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Taping_Is_Killing_Music Upd: In another thread, the "Betamax case" was cited.
- tanseydavid 6y agoDigital Audio Tape DAT -- they tried REALLY hard to keep this technology out of the US market. Eventually they got a the authorities to impose a surcharge per blank DAT tape for 'lost income'. Writable CDs came soon after which was probably going to kill DAT market no matter what.
- ddingus 6y agoTrivia: SGI DAT drives will read and write audio DAT. The CD drives offered "Save Track As" in the default OS.
- betamaxthetape 6y agoSince the original version of DDS tape is basically just DAT tapes being used to store computer data, many of the commercially-available DDS drives could be re-flashed to allow them to read DAT as well. (Re-flashing was necessary to remove the software restriction that otherwise recognised DAT tapes and refused to read them). I'm not going to post any links, but there's plenty of info online.
- ddingus 6y agoIndeed. Really, I was speaking to nice, open computers. Did what people expected out of the box.
- RobRivera 6y agoPlease don't give them any ideas
- contravariant 6y agoYou're right! Apparently you can download all of youtube just by going to youtube.com! Guess those guys will be next.
- mohamez 6y agoOr let's remove knives from all together from this world because someone is using the to kill other people.
- mulmen 6y agoIf you sell a "murderizer 3000" and explain in the owner's manual how to inflict a fatal wound and maybe also not leave any evidence behind it doesn't take a genius to argue you're selling a murder weapon, to murderers.
- thescriptkiddie 6y agoHave you seen gun ads? Firearm manufacturers basically do market their products as murder weapons.
- mulmen 6y agoRight, that's my point. You can't make a tool called Youtube-dl with source controlled test cases that download copywritten material from Youtube and then claim it's not for downloading copywritten material from Youtube.
- mulmen 6y agoFirefox isn't advertised as a tool to download content illegally nor does it feature doing so in any documentation or code AFAIK. The chosen example gave RIAA the ammo it needed to attack this tool.
- davidjnelson 6y agoLol that’s awesome. Law is complicated.
- nogabebop23 6y agoEven if we restrict the target set to "tools with a high likelyhood of being used for an illegal purpose" which I believe youtube-dl belongs in, when is the RIAA going after "guns"?
- dang 6y ago(This subthread was originally a reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24872940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24872940)