7 ms·

Why stop with torrent clients? They should ban all browsers, because they CAN be used to download copyrighted materials!

romwell 6y ago
Browsers? We need to ban radios with tape decks and TVs with VCRs! The audio cassette and the VHS are bringing the downfall of the music industry with how easily they can be used to create unauthorized copies! Oh wait.
- dirtnugget 6y ago
  Thanks for the throwback
- jackhack 6y ago
  I realize you're being sarcastic but with a line of logic like that, you have a bright career in Congress, should you want it.
- fernandotakai 6y ago
  i love how dead kennedys literally left one of their cassette tapes sides blank and printed "Home taping is killing record industry profits! We left this side blank so you can help." on it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust,_Inc.#Artwork_and_releases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust,_Inc.#Artwork_...
indigochill 6y ago
Why stop with browsers? With enough creativity you can use any network protocol to download copyrighted material, so they should just ban computer networks.
- rovr138 6y ago
  Any input or output device
  - tanseydavid 6y ago
    No joke -- if they could get the legislation signed into law they would be thrilled. They could care less about side-effects and collateral consequences for adjacent technologies and use cases.
    - Chirael 6y ago
      They would prefer it if you only used DRM input and output devices that only run approved code rather than general purpose devices that can run any code you can conceive of or download [1] [1] "The Coming War on General Purpose Computation" https://boingboing.net/2011/12/27/the-coming-war-on-general-purp.html https://boingboing.net/2011/12/27/the-coming-war-on-general-...
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Because the law doesn't take kindly to "well, technically" arguments.
  - pmoriarty 6y ago
    So what does it mean when someone says "he got off on a technicality"? There have been plenty of cases where exactly that happened. There's the spirit of the law and the letter of the law, and many are persuaded that when someone hasn't violated the letter of the law, they haven't violated the law. Judges, lawyers, and juries will vary on this, but in many cases the letter of the law will carry the day, and people will in fact "get off on a technicality".
- gamblor956 6y ago
  Because browsers and network protocols were not created with the primary purpose of violating copyrights... Intent matters in the law. After after all, two guns can be physically and functionally identical, but if one is purchased to be used in a conspiracy to commit murder then it's evidence of a crime, and the other gun is still just a gun.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
hawkoy 6y ago
Another abuse of DMCA on the frontpage earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24867212 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24867212 Indian startup taking down dissent, whistle blowers and leaks using take down requests to youtube and social media.
read_if_gay_ 6y ago
Same for any kind of information exchange, like speech or the written word. Common sense says their argument doesn't hold water at all. Should courts decide in favor of the takedown that'd just go to show how broken our legal system is. Let's hope not.
ferdek 6y ago
Well, following their logic behind DMCA compliant, I guess fiddling long enough with developer's console on Chrome or Firefox would allow you to download potentially copyrighted material from youtube the same way youtube-dl does. sed s/youtube-dl/firefox/g and voilà, DMCA for Firefox ready to submit... Let's go further! Let's DMCA the Linux kernel because it runs Firefox/youtube-dl/curl/wget!
- saagarjha 6y ago
  The Linux kernel does not have "youtube" in its name–it isn't advertised as a way to download videos.
  - pmoriarty 6y ago
    So if youtube-dl had a different name it'd be ok?
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      I'm not a lawyer, and even if it was I could never tell you that anything would be "ok" in this kind of situation. But I suspect that it would be better off.
- sjy 6y ago
  The logic behind the DMCA complaint is that youtube-dl is “marketed … for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a [copyrighted] work” [1], not that it “allows you to download potentially copyrighted material from youtube.” [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    But it wasn't. This was just a unit test.
    - 6y ago
usr1106 6y ago
All computers with the option to install applications or unlocked/unlockable bootloaders can be used to make copies of copyrighted materials. And it certainly happens a lot. But then, when secure boot came, Microsoft was forced to grant every owner of an Intel compatible computer the right to unlock it for antitrust reasons (luckily). So were is the borderline between a legal tool and an illegal tool? Well, lawyers will find out... In the meantime youtube-dl needs to be distributed some other channel. Which of course might raise the risk of back-doored or otherwise poisoned version floating around.
imtringued 6y ago
I think we should just replace all humans with an Ethereum smart contract. No humans, violation of law.
Fnoord 6y ago
We need to ban oxygen. It CAN be used to download copyrighted materials!
- simcup 6y ago
  >we need to ban boron/phosphorus FTFY
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
bergstromm466 6y ago
Why stop with browsers? They should ban all computers, because they CAN be used to download and play copyrighted materials!
atleta 6y ago
And you don't even need a browser for that. Your operating system comes with TCP support and that in itself is enough. (OK, some of them may probably be willing to build in all kinds of restrictions, so maybe they can get a RIAA stamp.)
trymas 6y ago
Let's just ban internet protocol, while at it. :) On a bit more serious note I wonder how much internet traffic is used for "illegal" purposes?
izacus 6y ago
> Why stop with torrent clients? They should ban all browsers, because they CAN be used to download copyrighted materials! We're talking about an industry that normalized rootkit DRM and persuaded pretty much all hardware manufacturers to implement expensive encrypted pipelines to lock you out from trying to even take a glimpse of content playing. After a few years of working near this industry I really cannot overestimate how rentseeking and scummy every single part of it is. They will abuse you without a second thought if there's a cent to be made.

romwell 6y ago

Browsers? We need to ban radios with tape decks and TVs with VCRs! The audio cassette and the VHS are bringing the downfall of the music industry with how easily they can be used to create unauthorized copies! Oh wait.

dirtnugget 6y ago
Thanks for the throwback
jackhack 6y ago
I realize you're being sarcastic but with a line of logic like that, you have a bright career in Congress, should you want it.
fernandotakai 6y ago
i love how dead kennedys literally left one of their cassette tapes sides blank and printed "Home taping is killing record industry profits! We left this side blank so you can help." on it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust,_Inc.#Artwork_and_releases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust,_Inc.#Artwork_...

indigochill 6y ago

Why stop with browsers? With enough creativity you can use any network protocol to download copyrighted material, so they should just ban computer networks.

rovr138 6y ago
Any input or output device
- tanseydavid 6y ago
  No joke -- if they could get the legislation signed into law they would be thrilled. They could care less about side-effects and collateral consequences for adjacent technologies and use cases.
  - Chirael 6y ago
    They would prefer it if you only used DRM input and output devices that only run approved code rather than general purpose devices that can run any code you can conceive of or download [1] [1] "The Coming War on General Purpose Computation" https://boingboing.net/2011/12/27/the-coming-war-on-general-purp.html https://boingboing.net/2011/12/27/the-coming-war-on-general-...
saagarjha 6y ago
Because the law doesn't take kindly to "well, technically" arguments.
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  So what does it mean when someone says "he got off on a technicality"? There have been plenty of cases where exactly that happened. There's the spirit of the law and the letter of the law, and many are persuaded that when someone hasn't violated the letter of the law, they haven't violated the law. Judges, lawyers, and juries will vary on this, but in many cases the letter of the law will carry the day, and people will in fact "get off on a technicality".
gamblor956 6y ago
Because browsers and network protocols were not created with the primary purpose of violating copyrights... Intent matters in the law. After after all, two guns can be physically and functionally identical, but if one is purchased to be used in a conspiracy to commit murder then it's evidence of a crime, and the other gun is still just a gun.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

hawkoy 6y ago

Another abuse of DMCA on the frontpage earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24867212 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24867212 Indian startup taking down dissent, whistle blowers and leaks using take down requests to youtube and social media.

read_if_gay_ 6y ago

Same for any kind of information exchange, like speech or the written word. Common sense says their argument doesn't hold water at all. Should courts decide in favor of the takedown that'd just go to show how broken our legal system is. Let's hope not.

ferdek 6y ago

Well, following their logic behind DMCA compliant, I guess fiddling long enough with developer's console on Chrome or Firefox would allow you to download potentially copyrighted material from youtube the same way youtube-dl does. sed s/youtube-dl/firefox/g and voilà, DMCA for Firefox ready to submit... Let's go further! Let's DMCA the Linux kernel because it runs Firefox/youtube-dl/curl/wget!

saagarjha 6y ago
The Linux kernel does not have "youtube" in its name–it isn't advertised as a way to download videos.
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  So if youtube-dl had a different name it'd be ok?
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    I'm not a lawyer, and even if it was I could never tell you that anything would be "ok" in this kind of situation. But I suspect that it would be better off.
sjy 6y ago
The logic behind the DMCA complaint is that youtube-dl is “marketed … for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a [copyrighted] work” [1], not that it “allows you to download potentially copyrighted material from youtube.” [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  But it wasn't. This was just a unit test.
  - 6y ago

usr1106 6y ago

All computers with the option to install applications or unlocked/unlockable bootloaders can be used to make copies of copyrighted materials. And it certainly happens a lot. But then, when secure boot came, Microsoft was forced to grant every owner of an Intel compatible computer the right to unlock it for antitrust reasons (luckily). So were is the borderline between a legal tool and an illegal tool? Well, lawyers will find out... In the meantime youtube-dl needs to be distributed some other channel. Which of course might raise the risk of back-doored or otherwise poisoned version floating around.

imtringued 6y ago

I think we should just replace all humans with an Ethereum smart contract. No humans, violation of law.

Fnoord 6y ago

We need to ban oxygen. It CAN be used to download copyrighted materials!

simcup 6y ago
>we need to ban boron/phosphorus FTFY

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

bergstromm466 6y ago

Why stop with browsers? They should ban all computers, because they CAN be used to download and play copyrighted materials!

atleta 6y ago

And you don't even need a browser for that. Your operating system comes with TCP support and that in itself is enough. (OK, some of them may probably be willing to build in all kinds of restrictions, so maybe they can get a RIAA stamp.)

trymas 6y ago

Let's just ban internet protocol, while at it. :) On a bit more serious note I wonder how much internet traffic is used for "illegal" purposes?

izacus 6y ago

> Why stop with torrent clients? They should ban all browsers, because they CAN be used to download copyrighted materials! We're talking about an industry that normalized rootkit DRM and persuaded pretty much all hardware manufacturers to implement expensive encrypted pipelines to lock you out from trying to even take a glimpse of content playing. After a few years of working near this industry I really cannot overestimate how rentseeking and scummy every single part of it is. They will abuse you without a second thought if there's a cent to be made.