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> I'm fully expecting plenty of whataboutism and false equivalencies in response to this comment and others making a similar point. Please don't poison the wel

> I'm fully expecting plenty of whataboutism and false equivalencies in response to this comment and others making a similar point. Please don't poison the well. If you believe I've made such an argument, please politely point that out about a specific statement and I'll try to understand my biases and correct it. > do you really believe the there's no meaningful difference between China's vision for the future and the West's? If we were comparing to Mao, Stalin, or Hitler, then, yes; but, modern states, no. The U.S. imprisons millions of people for petty drug crimes and kills millions of people in imperial wars. Is that so different than the treatment of the Uigers, Taiwanese, or those in Hong Kong? The social credit system and Great Firewall are being implemented through different means: social ostracism and social media oligopolies. I've personally experienced it. > No difference between the future each will create for you? I'm actually generally optimistic. If we take the evidence of the past few hundred years, we are likely to innovate and grow despite such excessive governance. It's the innovators that will make my future better. As far as the government goes, the practical difference seems minimal: I will meticulously pay my taxes and follow the laws so as not to receive the glare of either of the Saurons.

pdonis 6y ago
> The U.S. imprisons millions of people for petty drug crimes and kills millions of people in imperial wars. Is that so different than the treatment of the Uigers, Taiwanese, or those in Hong Kong? Yes, because in the US, we can actually have a conversation about changing those policies. In China, they can't.
- statquontrarian 6y ago
  Although there are counter-examples of Snowden, Assange, and others, I do generally agree with you that there are fewer political crimes in the U.S.; however, words are cheap, it's actions that matter. My point is about the results: the government continues to grow in depth and breadth. So, yes, if you're on the socialist end of the spectrum, you may feel very free to accomplish your goals. Those on the other end do not. As an example, how did all of our free speech help in stopping the war in Iraq based on a lie about WMDs that killed millions of people? Is anyone even arguing that China has killed millions of Uyghurs? To be clear, I think both sides are wrong. I'm just saying they're not qualitatively different by a magnitude.

pdonis 6y ago

> The U.S. imprisons millions of people for petty drug crimes and kills millions of people in imperial wars. Is that so different than the treatment of the Uigers, Taiwanese, or those in Hong Kong? Yes, because in the US, we can actually have a conversation about changing those policies. In China, they can't.

statquontrarian 6y ago
Although there are counter-examples of Snowden, Assange, and others, I do generally agree with you that there are fewer political crimes in the U.S.; however, words are cheap, it's actions that matter. My point is about the results: the government continues to grow in depth and breadth. So, yes, if you're on the socialist end of the spectrum, you may feel very free to accomplish your goals. Those on the other end do not. As an example, how did all of our free speech help in stopping the war in Iraq based on a lie about WMDs that killed millions of people? Is anyone even arguing that China has killed millions of Uyghurs? To be clear, I think both sides are wrong. I'm just saying they're not qualitatively different by a magnitude.