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We're a 40 person Design agency, that has been running on Mac hardware for almost 40 years now. Everybody of us used to be a huge apple fanboy, now every one o

by j-pb 6y ago

We're a 40 person Design agency, that has been running on Mac hardware for almost 40 years now. Everybody of us used to be a huge apple fanboy, now every one of us hates them with a passion. They completely ignored their customers for the iPhone money grab. Their hardware and software used to be synonymous with quality, nowadays their shoddy quality has become a meme at work. "Oops reboot." - "What did you expect, it's a mac." We're looking for the door, and slowly started to introduce windows machines. We were shocked how fast computers got without apple catching up. Apple used to he one of the pillars of our productivy, nowadays it's a liability. And from a developer perspective, they murdered their own App ecosystem. Mac software used to be really really good. But who do you expect to write great apps for 70ct per sale. That's just ridiculous. Also, why should I get an iPad pro, if I can't even write software on it. They could've dominated the PC market if iPad Os was actually a real OS. I doubt that apple can keep its brand relevant without opinion leaders like design professionals. I mean, c'mon, even Ive left. Apple is dead, it's only a matter of time for the rot to bring it down.

outworlder 6y ago
> Everybody of us used to be a huge apple fanboy, now every one of us hates them with a passion. Neither of these extremes are healthy attitudes. It's a company, making machines. That's all there is to it.
- cutler 6y ago
  That's a gross oversimplification. If Apple were just another Dell turning out machines you'd have a point but Apple, above all else, is an aesthetic brand designed to inspire passion. It's like comparing Ruby with Java. Ruby appeals to the developer's aesthetic, inspring passion in its community. Java does not.
ogre_codes 6y ago
> I doubt that apple can keep its brand relevant without opinion leaders like design professionals. I know a fair number of developers and most of them still use Macs. Not because they are fan boys, but because MacOS still sucks less than Windows. For me and likely many, OS choice is a pragmatic thing and for the moment MacOS is the least bad option. It's going to be interesting seeing what happens with the new CPUs which have the potential to push the Mac ahead of the pack in terms of price/ performance as well. > I mean, c'mon, even Ive left. Ive is 54 years old. He's was at Apple for ~26 years when he left. I have no idea how wealthy he is at this point, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's a billionaire based on his position and likely large stock option grants in the 00s. You are a designer, how many years would you put in cranking out designs for mass consumption consumer electronics after you were a many times over millionaire? How many black aluminium iPhones would you design? Another 40 years worth?
- fakedang 6y ago
  And I know a fair amount of devs who are forced to use Mac hardware because of Apple restricting dev and testing environments to the MacOS. Says a lot when a developer recommended me to use a Linux+Hackintosh (I'm not from a dev background). About your last point, it would be every designer's dream to work in a company with as powerful a brand as Apple, with as big a war chest and as global a reach for massive adoption. Yet Ive left, perhaps due to feeling that Apple has drained itself of ideas and doesn't have any concrete plans in future. FWIW, most of its recent products were envisioned when Jobs was alive.
  - indemnity 6y ago
    I’m a developer, I use a Mac, it’s still the best Unix laptop out there. But I have a Ryzen 3950X desktop with a real GPU (RTX 2080) running Windows and Linux, for when I am not portable. Same dotfiles for all, any operating system these days has the terminal + browser story covered, if you then use VS Code and languages like Go or Rust, you don’t really need to care what the OS is. Getting religious over any one platform is a waste of time IMO.
    - arvinsim 6y ago
      Funny, its the MacOS apologists that usually are religious about their OS. Gamers who use Windows and devs using Unix seem not to mind. As an aside, I have almost the same setup as you(just waiting for the 5950x). Probably the most bang for buck setup for devs.
    - fakedang 6y ago
      Well I use Windows and Linux currently, with a hackintosh for macOS after a bad spell with a Mac. I find the Linux OS to be the best for programming, since it just runs everything like a breeze. Windows is what I use for Office since macOS office is clunky and I'm locked in to the Windows shortcuts. The issue with Macs for me is not the usability of the OS (apart from the lock in that Apple tried to do), but because of its irreparability. Spilt a few dropfuls water on your PC while using? Tough luck, gotta go to the Apple Care centre and wait till they fix it in a week or more. Meanwhile once I accidentally spilt water on my ThinkPad, I just disconnected everything, left it to dry for a day and voila! All of my data was preserved, no issues at all. Another time, I accidentally dropped the ThinkPad from my desk, yet it still works as good as new. Even if some issue were to happen to it, I can be assured of getting out-of-warranty support anywhere in the world - heck, I've had an old Dell repaired at the bloke's who runs a computer shop in my grandfather's village in rural India. Another gripe I have is with Mac's updates. People complain about Windows updates, but it just takes an hour or two tops if it's a big one, and can be done on restart. Compare that to Mac - last year, Catalina took more than 10 hours on my Mac. Those are wasted hours of productivity, and it's always the same story with Mac every year.

by j-pb 6y ago

outworlder 6y ago

> Everybody of us used to be a huge apple fanboy, now every one of us hates them with a passion. Neither of these extremes are healthy attitudes. It's a company, making machines. That's all there is to it.

cutler 6y ago
That's a gross oversimplification. If Apple were just another Dell turning out machines you'd have a point but Apple, above all else, is an aesthetic brand designed to inspire passion. It's like comparing Ruby with Java. Ruby appeals to the developer's aesthetic, inspring passion in its community. Java does not.

ogre_codes 6y ago

> I doubt that apple can keep its brand relevant without opinion leaders like design professionals. I know a fair number of developers and most of them still use Macs. Not because they are fan boys, but because MacOS still sucks less than Windows. For me and likely many, OS choice is a pragmatic thing and for the moment MacOS is the least bad option. It's going to be interesting seeing what happens with the new CPUs which have the potential to push the Mac ahead of the pack in terms of price/ performance as well. > I mean, c'mon, even Ive left. Ive is 54 years old. He's was at Apple for ~26 years when he left. I have no idea how wealthy he is at this point, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's a billionaire based on his position and likely large stock option grants in the 00s. You are a designer, how many years would you put in cranking out designs for mass consumption consumer electronics after you were a many times over millionaire? How many black aluminium iPhones would you design? Another 40 years worth?

fakedang 6y ago
And I know a fair amount of devs who are forced to use Mac hardware because of Apple restricting dev and testing environments to the MacOS. Says a lot when a developer recommended me to use a Linux+Hackintosh (I'm not from a dev background). About your last point, it would be every designer's dream to work in a company with as powerful a brand as Apple, with as big a war chest and as global a reach for massive adoption. Yet Ive left, perhaps due to feeling that Apple has drained itself of ideas and doesn't have any concrete plans in future. FWIW, most of its recent products were envisioned when Jobs was alive.
- indemnity 6y ago
  I’m a developer, I use a Mac, it’s still the best Unix laptop out there. But I have a Ryzen 3950X desktop with a real GPU (RTX 2080) running Windows and Linux, for when I am not portable. Same dotfiles for all, any operating system these days has the terminal + browser story covered, if you then use VS Code and languages like Go or Rust, you don’t really need to care what the OS is. Getting religious over any one platform is a waste of time IMO.
  - arvinsim 6y ago
    Funny, its the MacOS apologists that usually are religious about their OS. Gamers who use Windows and devs using Unix seem not to mind. As an aside, I have almost the same setup as you(just waiting for the 5950x). Probably the most bang for buck setup for devs.
  - fakedang 6y ago
    Well I use Windows and Linux currently, with a hackintosh for macOS after a bad spell with a Mac. I find the Linux OS to be the best for programming, since it just runs everything like a breeze. Windows is what I use for Office since macOS office is clunky and I'm locked in to the Windows shortcuts. The issue with Macs for me is not the usability of the OS (apart from the lock in that Apple tried to do), but because of its irreparability. Spilt a few dropfuls water on your PC while using? Tough luck, gotta go to the Apple Care centre and wait till they fix it in a week or more. Meanwhile once I accidentally spilt water on my ThinkPad, I just disconnected everything, left it to dry for a day and voila! All of my data was preserved, no issues at all. Another time, I accidentally dropped the ThinkPad from my desk, yet it still works as good as new. Even if some issue were to happen to it, I can be assured of getting out-of-warranty support anywhere in the world - heck, I've had an old Dell repaired at the bloke's who runs a computer shop in my grandfather's village in rural India. Another gripe I have is with Mac's updates. People complain about Windows updates, but it just takes an hour or two tops if it's a big one, and can be done on restart. Compare that to Mac - last year, Catalina took more than 10 hours on my Mac. Those are wasted hours of productivity, and it's always the same story with Mac every year.