5 ms·

Master of Magic

136 points by doppp 6y ago

corysama 6y ago
After 25 years, Master of Magic has recently added an official update! Well technically, some guy on the internet spent five years making a binary patch to fix a lot of bugs and add a lot of balance to the original game. Then some tiny publisher bought the official rights to the original game from whoever owns the Atari brand these days. The new publisher worked out a deal with the random internet guy and his patch became an official update. I've been playing the heck out of it lately and it's great! https://www.slitherine.com/game/master-of-magic-caster-of-magic https://www.slitherine.com/game/master-of-magic-caster-of-ma... Also available on Steam and GOG. But, I'd suggest giving the new publisher the revenue directly. Documentation of the changes: http://seravy.x10.mx/CasterofMagic/CASTEROFMAGIC.HTML http://seravy.x10.mx/CasterofMagic/CASTEROFMAGIC.HTML
- galapago 6y ago
  There is also this open-source reimplementation [1] [1] https://github.com/Jakz/openmom https://github.com/Jakz/openmom
  - eggsome 6y ago
    A much closer to complete (with multiplayer!) clone/re-implementation in Java here: http://mom.pjj.cc/forum/ http://mom.pjj.cc/forum/ And lots of current discussion on the MoM Discord here: https://discord.gg/wFNQf36 https://discord.gg/wFNQf36
- drewcoo 6y ago
  Mentioned in article, too: > Personally, I find it no fun whatsoever, and I’ve heard many others say the same thing. disclaimer: I agree with the article.
- splonk 6y ago
  I just found out about CoM a couple months ago and have been playing it a fair bit since then. I get the complaints, but it's still pretty playable to me, and it's been quite a long time since I played the original, so I may not quite remember how it used to play. It's overall enjoyable and I'm impressed that the guy make the changes he did by patching the binary. I think there's a few aspects to the CoM patch. 1. General bug fixes (fixing diplomacy to actually work, making some spells actually do what they say they do, that kind of thing). While these cause some changes to gameplay, I imagine most people aren't complaining about this. 2. Balance fixes - things like not being able to pick 11 books, start with a rare summon, and wreck the world early on (hello, formerly completely broken Wraiths). Certainly it's a reasonable change to make, but it's definitely not fun for people who just want to, well, wreck the world. 3. AI/Balance changes. The writer of the patch has some design goals that aren't the same as the original game - in particular, more of a focus on magic in big overland spells and such, and less on invincible heroes. This, coupled with some AI fixes in prioritizing spells, really messes with people used to playing the old game. Between these and the resource buffs AI players get even at pretty low levels, you're going to be facing some pretty ugly combats by midgame. Certainly in my play so far this is least "fun" part I've found - basically fighting uphill by abusing the remaining problems in the AI (e.g., not protecting navies well), and not really getting to use heroes against the AI unless you have the right defensive spells, since the AI is much better at just pelting your heroes with direct damage. Overall I think it's a better game, but possibly not a more "fun" one, depending on your tastes. I remember seeing Brian Reynolds (Civ 2, Alpha Centauri) give a talk once where he said that while everyone complains about how 4X game AIs just cheat with more resources at higher difficulties, the large majority of players just want to be able to beat the midrange AIs with minor exploits, and improving the actual logic of the AIs actually made them enjoy the game less. I can definitely see that happening here as well. Edit: I should add that there's at least 2 big QoL improvements in CoM: build queues (slightly wonky, but better than nothing), and an earlier win condition for conquest, so you don't need to bother conquering the entire world once it's obvious you're going to win.
  - b0rsuk 6y ago
    Last time I checked, "Caster of Magic" is a mod for Master of Magic. It's based on the fan-made patch 'insecticide', by kyrub. Insecticide is very conservative about gameplay changes. I don't know about CoM (I didn't try it because I didn't like the change list), but kyrub actually scaled down some artificial AI bonuses because smarter behavior makes up for that. Overall, I think the author of the article didn't research the unofficial patches very well.
- Lemmih 6y ago
  I tried buying from the publisher but they demanded by phone number.
galapago 6y ago
Master of Magic is one of few old games from GOG that are still receiving updates and fixes[1]. Perhaps they have the original source code available? [1] https://www.gog.com/forum/master_of_magic/changelog_master_of_magic https://www.gog.com/forum/master_of_magic/changelog_master_o...
- corysama 6y ago
  Recent changes have been made via reverse-engineering and binary patching :P
shmerl 6y ago
The only complaint is that you can't resolve the progress by diplomacy towards the later parts of the campaign due to the set up the story.
xxh9 6y ago
I remember reading the classic Hero Compendium, which I found funny back in the day but perhaps a bit out of touch with the times, now. https://www.masterofmagic.info/Document/hero0030.php https://www.masterofmagic.info/Document/hero0030.php
b0rsuk 6y ago
While playtesting kyrub's 'insecticide' patch, we found an amusing bug. The Invulnerability spell is impossible to dispel! It's the last on the list of spells, and suffers from the off-by-one bug. This is why Guardian Spirit + Invulnerability starting strategy is so popular. The invulnerability is literally impossible to dispel without the player-made patch!
AtlasBarfed 6y ago
There have been a lot of upstarts to new gaming, such as Stadia which people are basically waiting for google to prematurely kill. It's hard to make a splash without solid first party games / exclusives. The incumbents flush with cash can do those, but upstarts? Usually these new platforms launch with at least 100 million in marketing. It would seem one thing to try aside from bootstrapping a billion dollars in high risk first party dev/publishing, is to take a small amount (10 million) and do something like this: Acquire beloved old games, fix them up a bit with "new stuff", from a swathe of former platforms over the years. At a minimum, a lot of those, like this one, have fan patches, romhacks, custom level packs, that can be curated and packaged.
- kbenson 6y ago
  I think we'll see a lot more of this, just like the 90's saw a huge influx of people purchasing and fixing up old Mustangs and Camaros as a business for those people that could afford the car they always wanted as a teenager. You can actually see this happening with titles on Steam, but generally not with items this old. A "remastered" version is released 5-10 years after the original with updated graphics and some bug fixes, maybe even some updates to take advantage of what became standard in the genre afterwards. It doesn't always go well though, I was just reading today about Kingdoms of Amalur: Re-Reckoning on Steam (am update of Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning from 2012) where people are complaining that while they did make it look somewhat better, and they did add a few useful enhancements to the looting system, not only did they not fix previously well known game breaking bugs, but they introduced new ones in addition.[1] The reviews were saying the original was better (and still great), but alas, it's no longer for sale (on Steam at least) because of the re-release. What's interesting is that based on some of the material on the page, there's an upcoming addition/DLC coming out, so if played well, this strategy could be very lucrative for a team that's design and content creation oriented and skilled, while not having to worry as much about the technical aspects of designing the game and engine. There's something to be said for this. There's a reason Fallout: New Vegas is considered by many to be the better Fallout 3 game. There's a much more cohesive story line to it, and more interesting content in general, and I have to imagine not having to worry as much about getting the engine right freed the studio that made New Vegas (Obsidian, which is not the studio that made Fallout 3 and the engine which was Bethesda) to focus on that. 1: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1041720/Kingdoms_of_Amalur_ReReckoning/#app_reviews_hash https://store.steampowered.com/app/1041720/Kingdoms_of_Amalu...
frankosaurus 6y ago
I'd love to see the original devs do a Classic Game Postmortem on Master of Magic. It's a great series from GDC: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2e4mYbwSTbbiX2uwspn0xiYb8_P_cTAr https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2e4mYbwSTbbiX2uwspn0...
- corysama 6y ago
  You would like https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMakingOfGames/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMakingOfGames/
beagle3 6y ago
I was filled with nostalgia seeing the title; alas, this is not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Magic_(1985_video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Magic_(1985_video_ga... , which is 35 years old by now - an update for this would really be impressive, given that the platforms it ran on were C64 and ZX Spectrum. The soundtrack is amazing as well, IMHO: C64 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm5Hjsm5NZ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm5Hjsm5NZ4 Inspired by: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfxcreFEowE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfxcreFEowE (But Hubbard's c64 version is better - if you don't dislike chiptunes)
- layer8 6y ago
  Official version: https://youtu.be/kVq1yec1Ljg https://youtu.be/kVq1yec1Ljg
- YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
  The soundtrack is really good, thanks for linking!
smartician 6y ago
I thought this was about the 1985 RPG of the same name. The amazing Rob Hubbard soundtrack immediately played in my head when I clicked through, only to find screenshots of a completely unfamiliar game. It took me almost half an hour to figure out that my brain hadn't played tricks on me, and that there are two completely different games with the same name!
AdeptusAquinas 6y ago
A game I have been playing for 25 years. Usually try to get it running on every new device as a poc - latest was a Pi 4.
GlennS 6y ago
If you're interested in old games you might also find this website useful: http://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/genre.php?id=10&sg=0&sort=rating http://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/genre.php?id=10&sg=0&sort=...
beyondcompute 6y ago
One of the amazing games! At some point I really wished there were a remake (that would be as close to the original as possible just with updated graphics, etc.). Though there are games that borrow some of the mechanics I still think MoM had a great balance of playability, depth and atmosphere.
noisem4ker 6y ago
The Age of Wonders series was heavily inspired by Master of Magic, and it's keeping its spirit alive and modernized to the present day.

136 points by doppp 6y ago

After 25 years, Master of Magic has recently added an official update! Well technically, some guy on the internet spent five years making a binary patch to fix a lot of bugs and add a lot of balance to the original game. Then some tiny publisher bought the official rights to the original game from whoever owns the Atari brand these days. The new publisher worked out a deal with the random internet guy and his patch became an official update. I've been playing the heck out of it lately and it's great! https://www.slitherine.com/game/master-of-magic-caster-of-magic https://www.slitherine.com/game/master-of-magic-caster-of-ma... Also available on Steam and GOG. But, I'd suggest giving the new publisher the revenue directly. Documentation of the changes: http://seravy.x10.mx/CasterofMagic/CASTEROFMAGIC.HTML http://seravy.x10.mx/CasterofMagic/CASTEROFMAGIC.HTML

galapago 6y ago
There is also this open-source reimplementation [1] [1] https://github.com/Jakz/openmom https://github.com/Jakz/openmom
- eggsome 6y ago
  A much closer to complete (with multiplayer!) clone/re-implementation in Java here: http://mom.pjj.cc/forum/ http://mom.pjj.cc/forum/ And lots of current discussion on the MoM Discord here: https://discord.gg/wFNQf36 https://discord.gg/wFNQf36
drewcoo 6y ago
Mentioned in article, too: > Personally, I find it no fun whatsoever, and I’ve heard many others say the same thing. disclaimer: I agree with the article.
splonk 6y ago
I just found out about CoM a couple months ago and have been playing it a fair bit since then. I get the complaints, but it's still pretty playable to me, and it's been quite a long time since I played the original, so I may not quite remember how it used to play. It's overall enjoyable and I'm impressed that the guy make the changes he did by patching the binary. I think there's a few aspects to the CoM patch. 1. General bug fixes (fixing diplomacy to actually work, making some spells actually do what they say they do, that kind of thing). While these cause some changes to gameplay, I imagine most people aren't complaining about this. 2. Balance fixes - things like not being able to pick 11 books, start with a rare summon, and wreck the world early on (hello, formerly completely broken Wraiths). Certainly it's a reasonable change to make, but it's definitely not fun for people who just want to, well, wreck the world. 3. AI/Balance changes. The writer of the patch has some design goals that aren't the same as the original game - in particular, more of a focus on magic in big overland spells and such, and less on invincible heroes. This, coupled with some AI fixes in prioritizing spells, really messes with people used to playing the old game. Between these and the resource buffs AI players get even at pretty low levels, you're going to be facing some pretty ugly combats by midgame. Certainly in my play so far this is least "fun" part I've found - basically fighting uphill by abusing the remaining problems in the AI (e.g., not protecting navies well), and not really getting to use heroes against the AI unless you have the right defensive spells, since the AI is much better at just pelting your heroes with direct damage. Overall I think it's a better game, but possibly not a more "fun" one, depending on your tastes. I remember seeing Brian Reynolds (Civ 2, Alpha Centauri) give a talk once where he said that while everyone complains about how 4X game AIs just cheat with more resources at higher difficulties, the large majority of players just want to be able to beat the midrange AIs with minor exploits, and improving the actual logic of the AIs actually made them enjoy the game less. I can definitely see that happening here as well. Edit: I should add that there's at least 2 big QoL improvements in CoM: build queues (slightly wonky, but better than nothing), and an earlier win condition for conquest, so you don't need to bother conquering the entire world once it's obvious you're going to win.
- b0rsuk 6y ago
  Last time I checked, "Caster of Magic" is a mod for Master of Magic. It's based on the fan-made patch 'insecticide', by kyrub. Insecticide is very conservative about gameplay changes. I don't know about CoM (I didn't try it because I didn't like the change list), but kyrub actually scaled down some artificial AI bonuses because smarter behavior makes up for that. Overall, I think the author of the article didn't research the unofficial patches very well.
Lemmih 6y ago
I tried buying from the publisher but they demanded by phone number.

galapago 6y ago

Master of Magic is one of few old games from GOG that are still receiving updates and fixes[1]. Perhaps they have the original source code available? [1] https://www.gog.com/forum/master_of_magic/changelog_master_of_magic https://www.gog.com/forum/master_of_magic/changelog_master_o...

corysama 6y ago
Recent changes have been made via reverse-engineering and binary patching :P

shmerl 6y ago

The only complaint is that you can't resolve the progress by diplomacy towards the later parts of the campaign due to the set up the story.

xxh9 6y ago

I remember reading the classic Hero Compendium, which I found funny back in the day but perhaps a bit out of touch with the times, now. https://www.masterofmagic.info/Document/hero0030.php https://www.masterofmagic.info/Document/hero0030.php

b0rsuk 6y ago

While playtesting kyrub's 'insecticide' patch, we found an amusing bug. The Invulnerability spell is impossible to dispel! It's the last on the list of spells, and suffers from the off-by-one bug. This is why Guardian Spirit + Invulnerability starting strategy is so popular. The invulnerability is literally impossible to dispel without the player-made patch!

AtlasBarfed 6y ago

There have been a lot of upstarts to new gaming, such as Stadia which people are basically waiting for google to prematurely kill. It's hard to make a splash without solid first party games / exclusives. The incumbents flush with cash can do those, but upstarts? Usually these new platforms launch with at least 100 million in marketing. It would seem one thing to try aside from bootstrapping a billion dollars in high risk first party dev/publishing, is to take a small amount (10 million) and do something like this: Acquire beloved old games, fix them up a bit with "new stuff", from a swathe of former platforms over the years. At a minimum, a lot of those, like this one, have fan patches, romhacks, custom level packs, that can be curated and packaged.

kbenson 6y ago
I think we'll see a lot more of this, just like the 90's saw a huge influx of people purchasing and fixing up old Mustangs and Camaros as a business for those people that could afford the car they always wanted as a teenager. You can actually see this happening with titles on Steam, but generally not with items this old. A "remastered" version is released 5-10 years after the original with updated graphics and some bug fixes, maybe even some updates to take advantage of what became standard in the genre afterwards. It doesn't always go well though, I was just reading today about Kingdoms of Amalur: Re-Reckoning on Steam (am update of Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning from 2012) where people are complaining that while they did make it look somewhat better, and they did add a few useful enhancements to the looting system, not only did they not fix previously well known game breaking bugs, but they introduced new ones in addition.[1] The reviews were saying the original was better (and still great), but alas, it's no longer for sale (on Steam at least) because of the re-release. What's interesting is that based on some of the material on the page, there's an upcoming addition/DLC coming out, so if played well, this strategy could be very lucrative for a team that's design and content creation oriented and skilled, while not having to worry as much about the technical aspects of designing the game and engine. There's something to be said for this. There's a reason Fallout: New Vegas is considered by many to be the better Fallout 3 game. There's a much more cohesive story line to it, and more interesting content in general, and I have to imagine not having to worry as much about getting the engine right freed the studio that made New Vegas (Obsidian, which is not the studio that made Fallout 3 and the engine which was Bethesda) to focus on that. 1: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1041720/Kingdoms_of_Amalur_ReReckoning/#app_reviews_hash https://store.steampowered.com/app/1041720/Kingdoms_of_Amalu...

frankosaurus 6y ago

I'd love to see the original devs do a Classic Game Postmortem on Master of Magic. It's a great series from GDC: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2e4mYbwSTbbiX2uwspn0xiYb8_P_cTAr https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2e4mYbwSTbbiX2uwspn0...

corysama 6y ago
You would like https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMakingOfGames/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMakingOfGames/

beagle3 6y ago

I was filled with nostalgia seeing the title; alas, this is not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Magic_(1985_video_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Magic_(1985_video_ga... , which is 35 years old by now - an update for this would really be impressive, given that the platforms it ran on were C64 and ZX Spectrum. The soundtrack is amazing as well, IMHO: C64 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm5Hjsm5NZ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm5Hjsm5NZ4 Inspired by: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfxcreFEowE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfxcreFEowE (But Hubbard's c64 version is better - if you don't dislike chiptunes)

layer8 6y ago
Official version: https://youtu.be/kVq1yec1Ljg https://youtu.be/kVq1yec1Ljg
YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
The soundtrack is really good, thanks for linking!

smartician 6y ago

I thought this was about the 1985 RPG of the same name. The amazing Rob Hubbard soundtrack immediately played in my head when I clicked through, only to find screenshots of a completely unfamiliar game. It took me almost half an hour to figure out that my brain hadn't played tricks on me, and that there are two completely different games with the same name!

AdeptusAquinas 6y ago

A game I have been playing for 25 years. Usually try to get it running on every new device as a poc - latest was a Pi 4.

GlennS 6y ago

If you're interested in old games you might also find this website useful: http://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/genre.php?id=10&sg=0&sort=rating http://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/genre.php?id=10&sg=0&sort=...

beyondcompute 6y ago

One of the amazing games! At some point I really wished there were a remake (that would be as close to the original as possible just with updated graphics, etc.). Though there are games that borrow some of the mechanics I still think MoM had a great balance of playability, depth and atmosphere.

noisem4ker 6y ago

The Age of Wonders series was heavily inspired by Master of Magic, and it's keeping its spirit alive and modernized to the present day.