6 ms·

And how much of that is reflected in productive activities that economic value instead of being scams, proofs of concept, funny money and manufactured spending?

AbrahamParangi 6y ago
Also memes, but I think you can ask the same question about our legacy financial system
- Daishiman 6y ago
  I get paid in our "legacy" system and that keeps a roof on my head and the lights going, along with a few other billion people.
  - intotheabyss 6y ago
    You're conveniently leaving out half the worlds population that doesn't have access to this legacy system.
    - Daishiman 6y ago
      They have fiat currency that they use to exchange for goods and services. I do not know literally a single human being who uses BTC or ETH exclusively for exchanging legal goods and services.
      - intotheabyss 6y ago
        We're talking about financial primitives, not owning currency. These people do not have access to bank accounts, loans, mortgages, etc. Once you have identity systems on Ethereum, then no-collateral loans and mortgages will be offered to anyone with access to the internet.
  - fsewe20 6y ago
    I get paid in dai in the ethereum system and that keeps a roof on my head and the lights going, along with a few other hundred?thousand? people. I still dont get why hackernews always has a bad reaction to cryptocurrencies. Disruption and innovation is praised, unless it challenges money. Experiments with computing and code is praised, but only if its a toy language. We're all on the same side :) just playing with different ways to do things.
  - arbol 6y ago
    Would you expect everything to move onto Ethereum/Blockchain immediately? Obviously not - small incremental steps are taken to improve legacy systems. 1T transacted is a fairly impressive milestone in that journey.
    - Daishiman 6y ago
      I'm expecting that after a decade or so of rapid development by people constantly hyping and offering a vision of the future that's a complete lie, that at the very least some of it would materialize.
intotheabyss 6y ago
Well, there's currently 14B of value (not settlement) locked in decentralized finance https://defipulse.com/ https://defipulse.com/. So I'd say a significant portion of Ethereums settlements are for productive activities within this ecosystem by providing liquidity for financial primitives, like borrowing, lending, swapping, leverage and derivatives.
- Daishiman 6y ago
  So... within the ecosystem, not outside of it. Meaning people aren't actually purchasing services or goods or generating activity outside of this ecosystem beyond inflating its value for development for uncertain ends. It's one big ouroboros.
  - intotheabyss 6y ago
    The worlds two biggest financial primitives are borrowing and lending. These two primitives make up a large portion of the total financial activity in the worlds markets. It allows all other financial primitives to exist. As an analogy to programming, borrowing and lending is essentially the lowest level on the stack, where all other financial primitives are built on top of. In order to have derivatives, insurance, funding, etc. you need liquidity and borrowing and lending. DeFi on Ethereum is replicating the existing financial system, so by criticizing this, you're essentially also criticizing the legacy financial system. Now that there's tons of liquidity on Ethereum, people have been building applications ontop of this financial stack. In the programming analogy, these applications are higher up on the stack (like web browsers) and rely on the primitives to build out financial infrastructure.
    - aitrean 6y ago
      > DeFi on Ethereum is replicating the existing financial system, so by criticizing this, you're essentially also criticizing the legacy financial system. Checkmate nOcOiNeRs. If you criticize my pyramid scheme network, you're actually criticizing the complex global financial system, because r/ethereum told me they're basically one in the same. How many mortgages are settled at any level of the "financial stack" with DeFi? None. How many bond payments have been paid out at any level of the "financial stack" with DeFi? None. How many registered securities have been traded with DeFi handling any level of the "financial stack"? None. If you want to use your "financial stack" metaphor, DeFi is like using a bluetooth smart dildo bootloader as the back end for a full stack web application. Sure, the stack you speak of exists, but there is nowhere that any programmer would ever seriously think to put that thing. Stop arguing semantics and actually point to a legitimate use-case that someone outside the crypto space would have for DeFi (even if it is at a "lower level" of the fin stack).
googthrowaway42 6y ago
Probably quite favorably when you compare that to the fiat system we have now. Look at SPACs, CLOs, or the Hertz bankruptcy stock buying opportunity, or Nikola Corporation, etc. I could go on forever.
- Daishiman 6y ago
  Yeah no.
- ryan93 6y ago
  The traditional system enables tens of trillions of dollars worth of economic activity a year.
  - googthrowaway42 6y ago
    Yes

AbrahamParangi 6y ago

Also memes, but I think you can ask the same question about our legacy financial system

Daishiman 6y ago
I get paid in our "legacy" system and that keeps a roof on my head and the lights going, along with a few other billion people.
- intotheabyss 6y ago
  You're conveniently leaving out half the worlds population that doesn't have access to this legacy system.
  - Daishiman 6y ago
    They have fiat currency that they use to exchange for goods and services. I do not know literally a single human being who uses BTC or ETH exclusively for exchanging legal goods and services.
    - intotheabyss 6y ago
      We're talking about financial primitives, not owning currency. These people do not have access to bank accounts, loans, mortgages, etc. Once you have identity systems on Ethereum, then no-collateral loans and mortgages will be offered to anyone with access to the internet.
- fsewe20 6y ago
  I get paid in dai in the ethereum system and that keeps a roof on my head and the lights going, along with a few other hundred?thousand? people. I still dont get why hackernews always has a bad reaction to cryptocurrencies. Disruption and innovation is praised, unless it challenges money. Experiments with computing and code is praised, but only if its a toy language. We're all on the same side :) just playing with different ways to do things.
- arbol 6y ago
  Would you expect everything to move onto Ethereum/Blockchain immediately? Obviously not - small incremental steps are taken to improve legacy systems. 1T transacted is a fairly impressive milestone in that journey.
  - Daishiman 6y ago
    I'm expecting that after a decade or so of rapid development by people constantly hyping and offering a vision of the future that's a complete lie, that at the very least some of it would materialize.

intotheabyss 6y ago

Well, there's currently 14B of value (not settlement) locked in decentralized finance https://defipulse.com/ https://defipulse.com/. So I'd say a significant portion of Ethereums settlements are for productive activities within this ecosystem by providing liquidity for financial primitives, like borrowing, lending, swapping, leverage and derivatives.

Daishiman 6y ago
So... within the ecosystem, not outside of it. Meaning people aren't actually purchasing services or goods or generating activity outside of this ecosystem beyond inflating its value for development for uncertain ends. It's one big ouroboros.
- intotheabyss 6y ago
  The worlds two biggest financial primitives are borrowing and lending. These two primitives make up a large portion of the total financial activity in the worlds markets. It allows all other financial primitives to exist. As an analogy to programming, borrowing and lending is essentially the lowest level on the stack, where all other financial primitives are built on top of. In order to have derivatives, insurance, funding, etc. you need liquidity and borrowing and lending. DeFi on Ethereum is replicating the existing financial system, so by criticizing this, you're essentially also criticizing the legacy financial system. Now that there's tons of liquidity on Ethereum, people have been building applications ontop of this financial stack. In the programming analogy, these applications are higher up on the stack (like web browsers) and rely on the primitives to build out financial infrastructure.
  - aitrean 6y ago
    > DeFi on Ethereum is replicating the existing financial system, so by criticizing this, you're essentially also criticizing the legacy financial system. Checkmate nOcOiNeRs. If you criticize my pyramid scheme network, you're actually criticizing the complex global financial system, because r/ethereum told me they're basically one in the same. How many mortgages are settled at any level of the "financial stack" with DeFi? None. How many bond payments have been paid out at any level of the "financial stack" with DeFi? None. How many registered securities have been traded with DeFi handling any level of the "financial stack"? None. If you want to use your "financial stack" metaphor, DeFi is like using a bluetooth smart dildo bootloader as the back end for a full stack web application. Sure, the stack you speak of exists, but there is nowhere that any programmer would ever seriously think to put that thing. Stop arguing semantics and actually point to a legitimate use-case that someone outside the crypto space would have for DeFi (even if it is at a "lower level" of the fin stack).

googthrowaway42 6y ago

Probably quite favorably when you compare that to the fiat system we have now. Look at SPACs, CLOs, or the Hertz bankruptcy stock buying opportunity, or Nikola Corporation, etc. I could go on forever.

Daishiman 6y ago
Yeah no.
ryan93 6y ago
The traditional system enables tens of trillions of dollars worth of economic activity a year.
- googthrowaway42 6y ago
  Yes