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Probably more about the visibility than the outcome—an attempt to drive a narrative that Uber et al are corrupt regulatory-capturing entities that are manipulat
by laser 6y ago
Probably more about the visibility than the outcome—an attempt to drive a narrative that Uber et al are corrupt regulatory-capturing entities that are manipulating the public through a suit like this could help the NO on Prop 22 cause. The trouble is, although that is substantially true, California legislators have broken things so badly with AB-5 that the public has no choice but to vote YES on Prop 22.
- jkaplowitz 6y agoThat's a false dichotomy. Addressing any perceived problems with the law through less extreme means than Prop 22 would be another option. As one example of how Prop 22 is extreme, it imposes an absurdly high 7/8 supermajority requirement to make legslative changes "consistent" with the proposition and a new initiative vote to make inconsistent changes. Entrenching self-interested corporate-written legislation to that extreme is awful.
- whimsicalism 6y agoI'm not voting for any loosening of labor laws that requires a 7/8th majority to change. And, honestly, what Uber has been doing with its platform recently has been really worrying me. I get a push notification almost every single day now asking me to vote Yes on Prop 22. I'm worried for what the future holds if this sort of thing is permitted because of Citizens United.
- vinay427 6y agoThe Uber Eats order I placed recently (in CA) felt more like a political campaign than a restaurant delivery service. It didn't exactly drive me further towards a Yes, no pun intended.
- reso 6y agoI can't believe the 7/8ths rule isn't a bigger story than it is. Insanely undemocratic. I wouldn't vote for any bill that included that stipulation.
- megaman821 6y agoI have seen in other comments that it can be changed with a simple majority with another prop, but if the legislature want to override the prop they need a 7/8 super-majority.
- jonas21 6y agoThe 7/8 provision only applies to changes made by the legislature -- if Prop 22 were to pass, voters could repeal or amend it with a simple majority vote on a future ballot initiative. By default, laws enacted via ballot initiative in California can't be changed by the legislature at all without voter approval -- California has some of the strongest protections in the country for these (see https://ballotpedia.org/Legislative_alteration https://ballotpedia.org/Legislative_alteration)
- masonic 6y agoWho would organize and pay for such an initiative?
- km3r 6y agoit makes more sense in the frame of the original AB5 being passed with a massive margin, so a slightly higher margin was included to prevent an immediate reversal by the legislator.
- brian_cloutier 6y agoIt's not a big story because it's technically a leniency. There are other props on the same ballot which cannot be overturned by the legislature at all. Constitutionally (the CA constitution) the default is that a ballot measure cannot be overturned without another ballot measure. I agree that the 7/8th's thing is ridiculous, and it is most of the reason why I have decided to vote against 22, but it's not particularly notable, this is just how ballot props work and it is why your presumptive answer to most CA ballot props should be no.
- masonic 6y agoa ballot measure cannot be overturned without another ballot measure If the Legislature wants to change a statute put in by initiative, they can provisionally. This generates a Legislative Statute proposition. Most of those pass without a lot of scrutiny. No voter signatures are needed.
- stefan_ 6y agoYes, but did you read that huge HN thread about political activism in the workplace? Maybe this is just Ubers "mission", and if you are not on board, to hell!
- dantheman 6y agoThis has nothing to do with citizens united.
- whimsicalism 6y agoWhat? It is directly related to Citizens United and associated precedent, these are independent expenditures by a corporation in an election. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_National_Bank_of_Boston_v._Bellotti https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_National_Bank_of_Boston_...
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoCitizens United had to do with independent expenditures on "electioneering communications", defined as advocacy related to specific political candidates. Spending on issue advocacy was already unlimited. (Which is almost certainly the right decision - if issue advocacy were restricted, organizations like the EFF wouldn't be able to talk at all in the 60 days before an election.)
- whimsicalism 6y agoEFF is not a corporation.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoCitizens United wasn't just about for-profit corporations. The namesake organization Citizens United is a nonprofit as well.
- sokoloff 6y agoEFF is most certainly a corporation; it is a non-profit corporation registered in MA, ID number 043091431. I don’t know if this link will work for others, but searching by name will turn it up: http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSummary.aspx?sysvalue=.flsKrNF5qwW0Tp12JrivOldRs.gIOD1IqxOxROH3N8- http://corp.sec.state.ma.us/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSummary.a...
- mullingitover 6y agoRequiring 7/8ths to overrule the public vote should be the norm for any ballot measure. Florida pulled their stunt where they override the public referendum on restoring felons voting rights, because they wanted to and they could. You might not like Prop 22, but imho if the public wants an amendment then their will should be sacrosanct.
- ponker 6y agoNo no no. The entire concept of ballot measures is insane since the electorate is not qualified to govern. The core concept of the Constitution is that the voters pick someone they trust and that person makes the decisions for them.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago> The core concept of the Constitution is that the voters pick someone they trust and that person makes the decisions for them Expanding on this, it traces from classical observations on the relative strengths and weaknesses of monarchy (modern: autocracy), oligarchy (modern: junta) and democracy (modern: mob rule to anarchy). It is why we have our three branches of government, and puts U.S.-China (and previously, U.S.-Soviet) competition on long-term rails.
- username90 6y agoI don't agree, Switzerland is a really well run country and politicians can't just overrule votes there. I'd go as far as to say that you don't have a proper democracy if the people can't overrule the will of politicians.
- ponker 6y agoSwitzerland is an ethnostate which doesn’t even grant citizenship to “foreigners” after a lifetime spent in the country. It works for them but would not be a suitable form for a country that was formed out of hodgepodge immigration.
- jquery 6y agoThe alternative was it required an 8/8 majority to change. California doesn’t let the legislature override props (for better or worse).
- throwaway2048 6y agoI'm pretty sure they do have a choice.
- zests 6y agoCurrently the only two child comments to your comment mention the requirement of 7/8ths in agreement for legislative amendment and say that this is ridiculous. I just finished reading an article saying that most ballot measures do not allow for legislative amendment at all. Who knows what to believe anymore. I don't live in California anymore so I have no vested interest in the politics there. Let this be a lesson to not believe everything you see on the internet.
- tomjakubowski 6y agoBy default, ballot intiatives, once enacted, can't be repealed or changed by the legislature. When a proposition has historically allowed for legislative editing, it's typically to allow for unthought of edge cases to be handled without going again through the ballot prop process. Far as I know, of propositions that allow for legislative editing, requiring a 7/8th majority is unprecedented. The legislature can always work around this, however, with a simple majority, by passing a proposed constitutional amendment to be approved by referendum.
- damnyou 6y agoAB2257 fixes most of the issues of AB5.