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The Hummer brand signals military machismo with emphasis on isolationist individualism and little to no regard for the environment. An electric Hummer counters

The Hummer brand signals military machismo with emphasis on isolationist individualism and little to no regard for the environment. An electric Hummer counters that brand signaling in unexpected and, for me, surprisingly welcome ways. Converting a large gallons-to-the-mile ICE to an emissions-free electric drive train shows a willingness to cannibalize a previously successful marketing brand with a more responsible offering. Ideally, the EV Hummer would offer comparable or better performance than the ICE, though achieving such will likely take further research and investment. Such manufacturing and marketing moves, though late in coming, are laudable and I sincerely hope such companies blow through their wildest sales projections in the EV market.

gameswithgo 6y ago
Electric drive is so superior for a lot of those machismo things. Traction, torque, acceleration. It is all just better. Only the noise is sub par =)
- ksherlock 6y ago
  You can't roll coal, either.
  - gogopuppygogo 6y ago
    Just wait. Some guy is going to strap a modified charcoal grill to the thing just for that purpose.
  - brianwawok 6y ago
    I am sure you could get a smoke generator addon.
jlv2 6y ago
With an estimated 200kWh battery pack and only 350 miles of range, the EV Hummer continues to show little to no regard for efficiency, making it perfect for the Hummer brand.
- PaulWaldman 6y ago
  This isn't scheduled to be out until the end of next year. Is it possible they are saving themselves future PR by announcing improvements before its release?
  - noxer 6y ago
    But other EVs also improve in that time so kinda irrelevant. And just by the look of it it aerodynamically simply cant compete with a car and no one should expect that.
- adrianN 6y ago
  That's about 35kWh/100km. For comparison, "normal" electric cars need something between 15 and 20kWh/100km.
  - r00fus 6y ago
    I had to do the conversion, 15k-20kWh/100km ~ 250-330Wh/mi. My Focus EV 2017 has a lifetime of about 275Wh/mi (and I have a lead foot).
    - zaroth 6y ago
      The difference being one of those numbers is actually real.
  - therealdrag0 6y ago
    Any idea what efficiency of "normal" trucks are; F150/Rivian/etc? Or even electric SUV; Model X, Rav4 Prime, etc?
- api 6y ago
  Hey, you only need about 200 200W solar panels to charge this during a typical clear day. You could build a farm like that on a Texas ranch and be a true 100% self-reliant individualist and drive a Hummer. A 200KWh battery could also power a large (e.g. 4br+) house for at least a few days.
2500k 6y ago
I think is a good example of how the narrative around EV's is shifting. When Tesla first started to gain traction people talked about them like they were a company that wanted to save the world. People talked about EVs like driving one was an altruistic endeavor for the future of mankind. Now if someone as, like you said, individualistically isolationist as an EV Hummer can sellout then that's a sign the narrative around EV are changing as they become more mainstream.
- lallysingh 6y ago
  Indeed! I hope this de-politicizes EVs. There's plenty of good isolationist reasons to go EV. And performance reasons. The only time I think IC vehicles are useful are for the power density of gas, which should just be super-long trips with no infra.
ebg13 6y ago
> Converting a large gallons-to-the-mile ICE to an emissions-free electric drive train shows a willingness to cannibalize a previously successful marketing brand The marketing brand for Hummers is girth and power, male sexual machismo in car form, and that isn't changing at all. Nobody evaluates their proxy phallus in terms of fuel consumption. They do it in terms of manly things like horsepower, towing capacity, and taking up a lot of space so that the whole world notices you. Electric vehicle marketing has been all over the "MOAR POWAR!" angle from the very beginning. There's zero reason for a car to accelerate to 60MPH in 3 seconds, but here we are with every electric tank advertising that it flies like a bullet.
- bryanlarsen 6y ago
  > There's zero reason for a car to accelerate to 60MPH in 3 seconds For an electric motor driven by batteries, the primary cost of a high power system is the ability to push lots of current to the motor. The motor itself is relatively cheap. Any electric car that has the ability to charge quickly also has the ability to discharge quickly, to deliver lots of power to the motor. Fast-charging is the cake, insane 0-60 times are the icing.
- brianwawok 6y ago
  You can use Chill mode if you don't want the speed.
PaulHoule 6y ago
GM never managed the HUMMER brand well. They were late coming out with the H3, the Honda Element came and ate their lunch. As for the original H1 it turned out to be a fine vehicle for the "Green Zone" but did not sufficient force protection for today's urban warrior.
- ericcholis 6y ago
  I miss the Element.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
radium3d 6y ago
The Hummer EV gets about 58mpge if it has a 200kW battery. That's 571 Wh/mile or more than 2.25x less efficient than a 2019 Tesla model 3 SR+ which gets 240Wh/mile.
- Robotbeat 6y ago
  Model 3 is an impressive vehicle. But it can’t tow anything. If you need to haul a lot, then the difference in efficiency between Hummer EV and an equivalent capability but efficiency optimized vehicle shrinks dramatically. If the thing you’re towing is bigger than the tow vehicle, then the difference is minimal.
- NDizzle 6y ago
  You can compare a model 3 with a giant SUV, but it's not a good look. The 2.25x difference is in aerodynamics and the weight differences. Can you offroad in a model 3? What lift kit do I need to install to fit 40" tires? What's the departure angle? Approach angle? Apples and oranges, but this is probably beyond the scope of HN. I doubt we have many other people here who are into offroading.
  - radium3d 6y ago
    It's a frame of reference. Just to get an idea of how much energy a big truck EV requires relative to a sedan.
    - NDizzle 6y ago
      The target audience for this vehicle isn't Tesla model 3 owners. It's people like me who get ~10.5 mpg in their fully built 6800 lbs Land Cruisers. It's appealing to me.
      - radium3d 6y ago
        I'm surprised it's only 2.25x less efficient really. I have my Cybertruck on order, you're not the only one interested in off roading on HN!
eagsalazar2 6y ago
I agree with everything you've said but it makes me wonder, who is buying these things? I remember seeing an H2 (in 2005 or so) with a custom license plate that proudly read "5mpg" which sums up the ethos IMO and still angers me to this day. I think a lot of people, like me, feel like the Hummer brand is poisonously associated with many things we don't believe in to the point where I would never consider buying one. On the other hand, I can't imagine their prev base of the flamboyantly anti-liberal is going to be excited about an EV either. So are all their new buyers those sheepish in-the-middle people who don't care that much about the gross brand and always wanted to buy a Hummer themselves but were too embarrassed?? Seems like an odd niche to focus on. Anyway I'm confused about the marketability of this product unless they openly disavow and almost apologize for their previously brazen/gas guzzling/tree-hating positioning. That they've sold out the first year means nothing without knowing the volumes involved. My gut tells me this isn't actually going to be a big seller and unlike you I don't imagine their intentions are laudable. More likely this is a callous and misguided resurrection of a dead and vile brand and they aren't even thinking about that history and their culpability in perpetuating the associated culture.
- playingchanges 6y ago
  Seems like a direct play at targeting anyone ostentatious enough to buy a Cybertruck to me
- m4eta 6y ago
  You underestimate the middle. The world isn't defined by the stereotypes we interrupt it by and this isn't any different. My friends sort of fall in this group. Imagine jock but not quite smart enough to be a nerd. Disposable incomes because we refused to grow up. They're going to wake up and be pissed when they see its already sold out.
- sl1ck731 6y ago
  I think your oversimplifying the appeal of a Hummer to only be had by some stereotype you have. I would purchase one of these as I have always liked the way the Hummer looks. I don't care for its association with the military or anything else. I'm not "flamboyantly liberal" and pretty center on a lot of things. It is just a nice looking car, simple as that. I also find the Tesla truck appealing as a homeowner I need something with ample cargo area to get various things for my home. It isn't that its electric that draws me, it wouldn't be that it was an ICE that would draw me either. Its just nice looking and featureful.
geerlingguy 6y ago
It's mostly marketing fluff with a bit more explanation, but this video dives into a lot of the little things that seem to indicate GM is at least taking things that come with a three-motor EV and helping make this a better all-around (especially off-road) vehicle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkM0L4_W_pM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkM0L4_W_pM I'd be interested in Sandy Munro's take (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj--iMtToRO_cGG_fpmP5XQ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj--iMtToRO_cGG_fpmP5XQ)
mwill666 6y ago
Any appeal to the environment is just branding though. A private vehicle of this weight is going to be highly destructive however we look at it. Even in terms of local air quality there will be significant pollution from non-exhaust emissions such as car tyre wear and brake dust (even with regenerative braking).
- HeadsUpHigh 6y ago
  It's meeting half-way. People who want these cars will continue buying them regardless so we might as well make something that's better.
piokoch 6y ago
"military machismo" isn't this a bit simplistic view of the army? 16% of military personnel (19% of officers corp) is female. I am not sure they would be happy to be qualified as "machos". "isolationist individualism" - is that something bad or good? Sounds like description of pretty large number of people working in IT (typically called "nerds").
- vkou 6y ago
  Given my anecdotal experience with the parking abilities of the average hummer owner, I would say that isolationist individualism manifests itself as 'screw everyone, I've got mine, and I don't think we live in a society.' So, at least part of that isn't too radically different from the politics a large number of folks working in IT profess.
  - mrits 6y ago
    I thought the stereotype of Hummer owners were parking at the other end of the lot away from everybody else.
    - vkou 6y ago
      Maybe in areas that have more cars than people, and thus, an overabundance of parking spaces.
    - InitialLastName 6y ago
      None of the ones I've known would have been capable of walking from the other end of the parking lot without getting winded.
- dsr_ 6y ago
  It turns out that marketing is not based on realistic appraisals of the world, but on assessing human beliefs about the world. These can diverge greatly.
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  I don't think they were saying that people in the military tend to buy hummers, but instead that people who buy hummers have a sense of military-style machismo.
SkyPuncher 6y ago
I think the timing happens to be pretty much perfect. Cybertruck came out with a radical design. The Hummer EV looks tame in comparison. There's also the new Ford Bronco that feels like it's in the same category (unique, off-road capable vehicles) and a few other truck platforms coming out. To me, it feels a bit like the modern-retro muscle cars of the late 00's. Challenger, Charger, and Camaro all coming out in a similar timeframe generated hype about the category. I don't think any of those cars would be as successful without they're competitors.
- awad 6y ago
  You're quite right about the timing. Cybertruck is a very polarizing design while the Hummer EV looks like, well, a Hummer which does still appeal to quite a lot of people. Throw in the Rivian and now we're in a new segment. I'm generally happy to see more brands leaning into EV since ultimately consumers win.
momokoko 6y ago
I think you are reading into this a bit much. It is a low volume production run to the point where this is a boutique novelty car. Plenty of people see this more as a fun cool toy than some kind of statement of their allegiance to the wanton destruction of all that is good in the world. Is it a little silly? Sure. It it some kind of thing to make you as mad as you’ve just become? Likely not.
- brundolf 6y ago
  > It is a low volume production run to the point where this is a boutique novelty car. Tesla started out the same way with the Roadster, and that paved the way for the more mainstream models later on. It punched a hole in existing expectations and cleared a path for what was to come.
  - zaroth 6y ago
    Tesla started out that way because EVs were entirely unproven and they had extremely limited capital. It’s not a perfect analogy, but it says a lot about GM that what they are doing in 2020 is on the same scale as what Tesla was doing in 2004-2008 with $60 million in funding.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - brundolf 6y ago
      Ok. I was just talking about strategy/significance: the Roadster opened up EVs for "car guys" and the luxury market. This low-volume hummer could open up EVs for the "military machismo" market, or whatever you want to call it. That could have a big impact, even if it's late.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  Given that it's more efficient than its ICE counterpart, this could become the standard consumer-model Hummer for the foreseeable future. It's tough. It's freaking huge. And it's the only EV that can off-road. Subaru and Jeep are going to be facing extremely tough competition if GM can produce this in any significant volume.
trhway 6y ago
>military machismo wait until eM1 Abrams. With additional benefit of improved IR signature.
ShorsHammer 6y ago
If you were an "isolationist" with prepping tendencies would you prefer your car to run on oil that needs to be highly refined or electricity, potentially generated in a thousand different ways?
- bitwize 6y ago
  You would prefer a diesel engine, which could run on rendered biomass if need be.
  - theshrike79 6y ago
    Which is better, creating a generator to make electricity to run an engine with one moving part. Vs. creating a rendered biomass pipeline to feed an extremely fiddly engine with hundreds of moving bits and bobs?
    - bob29 6y ago
      The first one.
    - InitialLastName 6y ago
      The engine with one moving part also has an enormous number of electronics that will degrade with time and be on the order of impossible to replace. The fiddly engine's moving bits and bobs will degrade with use, so it should be possible to pull replacements from disused alternatives.
      - theshrike79 6y ago
        An electric motor doesn't really _need_ all the electronics they're just there for optimisation and comfort. If The Shit Hits The Fan for reals, you can just plug in any power source to an electric motor and make it go. Adjusting power can be done with really simple electronic connections. Just an on/off switch will do in a pinch. Good luck trying to find a head gasket for a certain model of ICE though =)
y-c-o-m-b 6y ago
I've always had a soft spot for them thanks to Earth 2 (https://imgur.com/a/yikYi5V https://imgur.com/a/yikYi5V) and I would love to see them used in that regard: as more a cargo/utility EV with less emphasis on the military machismo.
rsync 6y ago
"An electric Hummer counters that brand signaling in unexpected and, for me, surprisingly welcome ways." Compare and contrast to the Volvo brand, and marketing, which sends all of the signals you're looking for ... and can barely be bothered to enter the electric car market. It's basically 2021 and what they have to show is an iMobile or eCar "mobility" initiative (Polestar 2) which is barely more than a concept car. If corporate image manipulation had any basis in reality, we'd have a plain old Volvo V90 electric car by now, based on about 6-8 years of platform development at "the good car company". (I would buy this car, by the way) Instead, I think Volvo and Hummer are both just carmakers and they will behave the way incumbent carmakers behave.
- aplummer 6y ago
  You can buy plug ins for most volvos and I think the all electric xc40 is a few months away at this point?
- virgilp 6y ago
  > and can barely be bothered to enter the electric car market. WHAT? Volvo is I think the only traditional car producer that sells absolutely no ICE-only vehicles (all of them are at the very least "mild hybrid"). Its declared goal is to be electric-only, and they certainly seem to be making good progress on that. Sure, they're not Tesla, but I think it's unfair to compare them with Hummer. [edit] here are their (public) goals: https://www.volvocars.com/intl/why-volvo/human-innovation/electrification https://www.volvocars.com/intl/why-volvo/human-innovation/el... - Since 2019, all cars electrified, all cars available in "plug in hybrid" version - 2020, launch full electric vehicles (they did, XC40) - Their goal is 50% plugin hybrid, 50% full electric by 2025
  - rconti 6y ago
    As a car enthusiast, I had absolutely no idea of any of this. They're apparently doing a good job hiding it.
    - theshrike79 6y ago
noxer 6y ago
"Emissions-free" is a lie anyway. Tire rubber dust/oil/windshield wiper fluid etc. There is no such thing as an emission-free car. Also gray energy emission (embodied energy) is completely ignore as allays. If we compare average emission per mileage per car over the whole lifetime EVs are just as bad as any other car. The only way to change that is if cars stop being parked 99% of their lifetime. Environmentally the worst thing for a car to do is not being in use. It means more cars are build than work is there for them. Thats how we actually waste resources and pollute completely unnecessary.
- emptysongglass 6y ago
  > If we compare average emission per mileage per car over the whole lifetime EVs are just as bad as any other car. That sounds totally outside the realm of reason. Please do cite some third-party sources.
  - minerjoe 6y ago
    Sounds reasonable to me. Embodied energy. One example, it takes a heck of a lot of energy to mine and process all that copper that goes into the motor windings. Another, it takes a heck of a lot of energy to mine and process all that lithium that goes in the batteries. Plus, where is the electricity comming from to charge them? Here in Montana, that generally means coal, burned hundreds of miles away and transported at great loss.
    - theshrike79 6y ago
      But when the coal plants get shut down and replaced with less polluting options, all electric cars in the state will instantly become less polluting. You do know that the car industry only uses a fraction of a fraction of all electric motors created, right? And the stuff dug out of the ground doesn't mystically disappear, it can still be recycled. Coal and oil will actually just go poof when it's used. It can never be used again.
  - theshrike79 6y ago
    They can't because it's not true. The only way to find a third-party source to back that up is either use the one Swedish(?) study, which has been refuted by its original authors or some really ancient source with old data. Depending on the way a country produces most of its electricity, EVs will outperform ICEs in emissions in just a few years. And that's mostly ignoring the emissions from drilling oil, refining it to petrol and moving said petrol to stations.
Reason077 6y ago
> "Ideally, the EV Hummer would offer comparable or better performance than the ICE, though achieving such will likely take further research and investment." The Hummer EV easily beats any ICE Hummer, as well as it's contemporary ICE peers, on all performance metrics except range. In fact, the ICE Hummer was such a gas guzzler that even its range was worse than the Hummer EV. With fuel efficiency as low as 9 miles to the gallon, the Hummer H2's 32.0 US gallon fuel tank would have only given it a range of 288 miles compared to the Hummer EV's 350.
DevKoala 6y ago
What is wrong with “isolationist individualism”? A lot of people enjoy living in far places away from communities. I think that’s my perfect retirement scenario honestly.
- InitialLastName 6y ago
  > What is wrong with “isolationist individualism”? The enormous externalities of supporting that lifestyle, whose costs are frequently borne in the form of municipal debt, climate devastation, and by (in net, when everyone demands this and fills in-demand areas with widely spaced housing) reducing the available housing stock.
  - KozmoNau7 6y ago
    It wouldn't be such a problem if people were willing to accept the simpler, less opulent and lower-impact lifestyle such a housing choice should entail. Living semi-off grid and with a low environmental impact is possible, but it demands deliberate choices and trade-offs.
  - DevKoala 6y ago
    How? You get energy from solar panels, water from a well, and internet through satellites. What type of remote living are you condemning? Do you have any evidence for this? Also, I do not understand how someone living further away from a city reduces the housing in a city.
flavius29663 6y ago
Hummer used to be big. But it's smaller than a Suburban, Sequoia and many other "full" trucks out there
- Reason077 6y ago
  With a length of 5,507 mm, the Hummer EV is larger than a Toyota Sequoia (5,210 mm). And a bit smaller than a Suburban (5,733 mm) Cybertruck is larger again at 5,885 mm, but that may differ for the production version.
Robotbeat 6y ago
I think the Hummer EV is fantastic. It isn't a compromised version of a gasoline vehicle. It truly is an ambitious approach to an electric vehicle. Like triple the power of past Hummers and with more range (!) than the conventional gas guzzlers. It has a bunch of interesting features that showcase the best of GM's engineers. It really is a good flagship. By going for the most machismo vehicle in the line-up, they're helping Tesla destroy any last vestige of electric vehicles as just fancy golf carts. I mean, this was (and in some circles, still is) the popular perception of electric vehicles 17 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcmZ1dof3Qw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcmZ1dof3Qw (Also, in absolute terms, they get the biggest emissions advantage over a conventional powertrain this way. Convert a Hummer from conventional to electric saves like 1 pound of CO2 per mile driven versus like 0.25 pounds saved per mile for, like, a subcompact car.) Vehicles like this are super important for helping convince the general public that climate action and electrification of transport doesn't mean diminished capacity and a smaller, more boring future. I was super impressed by the video GM released on it. I have said skeptical things about past "Tesla killers" and I am very much a Tesla fan, but I only have good things to say about this. With such a huge battery capacity, it might even be useful for towing, who knows!

gameswithgo 6y ago

Electric drive is so superior for a lot of those machismo things. Traction, torque, acceleration. It is all just better. Only the noise is sub par =)

ksherlock 6y ago
You can't roll coal, either.
- gogopuppygogo 6y ago
  Just wait. Some guy is going to strap a modified charcoal grill to the thing just for that purpose.
- brianwawok 6y ago
  I am sure you could get a smoke generator addon.

jlv2 6y ago

With an estimated 200kWh battery pack and only 350 miles of range, the EV Hummer continues to show little to no regard for efficiency, making it perfect for the Hummer brand.

PaulWaldman 6y ago
This isn't scheduled to be out until the end of next year. Is it possible they are saving themselves future PR by announcing improvements before its release?
- noxer 6y ago
  But other EVs also improve in that time so kinda irrelevant. And just by the look of it it aerodynamically simply cant compete with a car and no one should expect that.
adrianN 6y ago
That's about 35kWh/100km. For comparison, "normal" electric cars need something between 15 and 20kWh/100km.
- r00fus 6y ago
  I had to do the conversion, 15k-20kWh/100km ~ 250-330Wh/mi. My Focus EV 2017 has a lifetime of about 275Wh/mi (and I have a lead foot).
  - zaroth 6y ago
    The difference being one of those numbers is actually real.
- therealdrag0 6y ago
  Any idea what efficiency of "normal" trucks are; F150/Rivian/etc? Or even electric SUV; Model X, Rav4 Prime, etc?
api 6y ago
Hey, you only need about 200 200W solar panels to charge this during a typical clear day. You could build a farm like that on a Texas ranch and be a true 100% self-reliant individualist and drive a Hummer. A 200KWh battery could also power a large (e.g. 4br+) house for at least a few days.

2500k 6y ago

I think is a good example of how the narrative around EV's is shifting. When Tesla first started to gain traction people talked about them like they were a company that wanted to save the world. People talked about EVs like driving one was an altruistic endeavor for the future of mankind. Now if someone as, like you said, individualistically isolationist as an EV Hummer can sellout then that's a sign the narrative around EV are changing as they become more mainstream.

lallysingh 6y ago
Indeed! I hope this de-politicizes EVs. There's plenty of good isolationist reasons to go EV. And performance reasons. The only time I think IC vehicles are useful are for the power density of gas, which should just be super-long trips with no infra.

ebg13 6y ago

> Converting a large gallons-to-the-mile ICE to an emissions-free electric drive train shows a willingness to cannibalize a previously successful marketing brand The marketing brand for Hummers is girth and power, male sexual machismo in car form, and that isn't changing at all. Nobody evaluates their proxy phallus in terms of fuel consumption. They do it in terms of manly things like horsepower, towing capacity, and taking up a lot of space so that the whole world notices you. Electric vehicle marketing has been all over the "MOAR POWAR!" angle from the very beginning. There's zero reason for a car to accelerate to 60MPH in 3 seconds, but here we are with every electric tank advertising that it flies like a bullet.

bryanlarsen 6y ago
> There's zero reason for a car to accelerate to 60MPH in 3 seconds For an electric motor driven by batteries, the primary cost of a high power system is the ability to push lots of current to the motor. The motor itself is relatively cheap. Any electric car that has the ability to charge quickly also has the ability to discharge quickly, to deliver lots of power to the motor. Fast-charging is the cake, insane 0-60 times are the icing.
brianwawok 6y ago
You can use Chill mode if you don't want the speed.

PaulHoule 6y ago

GM never managed the HUMMER brand well. They were late coming out with the H3, the Honda Element came and ate their lunch. As for the original H1 it turned out to be a fine vehicle for the "Green Zone" but did not sufficient force protection for today's urban warrior.

ericcholis 6y ago
I miss the Element.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

radium3d 6y ago

The Hummer EV gets about 58mpge if it has a 200kW battery. That's 571 Wh/mile or more than 2.25x less efficient than a 2019 Tesla model 3 SR+ which gets 240Wh/mile.

Robotbeat 6y ago
Model 3 is an impressive vehicle. But it can’t tow anything. If you need to haul a lot, then the difference in efficiency between Hummer EV and an equivalent capability but efficiency optimized vehicle shrinks dramatically. If the thing you’re towing is bigger than the tow vehicle, then the difference is minimal.
NDizzle 6y ago
You can compare a model 3 with a giant SUV, but it's not a good look. The 2.25x difference is in aerodynamics and the weight differences. Can you offroad in a model 3? What lift kit do I need to install to fit 40" tires? What's the departure angle? Approach angle? Apples and oranges, but this is probably beyond the scope of HN. I doubt we have many other people here who are into offroading.
- radium3d 6y ago
  It's a frame of reference. Just to get an idea of how much energy a big truck EV requires relative to a sedan.
  - NDizzle 6y ago
    The target audience for this vehicle isn't Tesla model 3 owners. It's people like me who get ~10.5 mpg in their fully built 6800 lbs Land Cruisers. It's appealing to me.
    - radium3d 6y ago
      I'm surprised it's only 2.25x less efficient really. I have my Cybertruck on order, you're not the only one interested in off roading on HN!

eagsalazar2 6y ago

I agree with everything you've said but it makes me wonder, who is buying these things? I remember seeing an H2 (in 2005 or so) with a custom license plate that proudly read "5mpg" which sums up the ethos IMO and still angers me to this day. I think a lot of people, like me, feel like the Hummer brand is poisonously associated with many things we don't believe in to the point where I would never consider buying one. On the other hand, I can't imagine their prev base of the flamboyantly anti-liberal is going to be excited about an EV either. So are all their new buyers those sheepish in-the-middle people who don't care that much about the gross brand and always wanted to buy a Hummer themselves but were too embarrassed?? Seems like an odd niche to focus on. Anyway I'm confused about the marketability of this product unless they openly disavow and almost apologize for their previously brazen/gas guzzling/tree-hating positioning. That they've sold out the first year means nothing without knowing the volumes involved. My gut tells me this isn't actually going to be a big seller and unlike you I don't imagine their intentions are laudable. More likely this is a callous and misguided resurrection of a dead and vile brand and they aren't even thinking about that history and their culpability in perpetuating the associated culture.

playingchanges 6y ago
Seems like a direct play at targeting anyone ostentatious enough to buy a Cybertruck to me
m4eta 6y ago
You underestimate the middle. The world isn't defined by the stereotypes we interrupt it by and this isn't any different. My friends sort of fall in this group. Imagine jock but not quite smart enough to be a nerd. Disposable incomes because we refused to grow up. They're going to wake up and be pissed when they see its already sold out.
sl1ck731 6y ago
I think your oversimplifying the appeal of a Hummer to only be had by some stereotype you have. I would purchase one of these as I have always liked the way the Hummer looks. I don't care for its association with the military or anything else. I'm not "flamboyantly liberal" and pretty center on a lot of things. It is just a nice looking car, simple as that. I also find the Tesla truck appealing as a homeowner I need something with ample cargo area to get various things for my home. It isn't that its electric that draws me, it wouldn't be that it was an ICE that would draw me either. Its just nice looking and featureful.

geerlingguy 6y ago

It's mostly marketing fluff with a bit more explanation, but this video dives into a lot of the little things that seem to indicate GM is at least taking things that come with a three-motor EV and helping make this a better all-around (especially off-road) vehicle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkM0L4_W_pM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkM0L4_W_pM I'd be interested in Sandy Munro's take (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj--iMtToRO_cGG_fpmP5XQ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj--iMtToRO_cGG_fpmP5XQ)

mwill666 6y ago

Any appeal to the environment is just branding though. A private vehicle of this weight is going to be highly destructive however we look at it. Even in terms of local air quality there will be significant pollution from non-exhaust emissions such as car tyre wear and brake dust (even with regenerative braking).

HeadsUpHigh 6y ago
It's meeting half-way. People who want these cars will continue buying them regardless so we might as well make something that's better.

piokoch 6y ago

"military machismo" isn't this a bit simplistic view of the army? 16% of military personnel (19% of officers corp) is female. I am not sure they would be happy to be qualified as "machos". "isolationist individualism" - is that something bad or good? Sounds like description of pretty large number of people working in IT (typically called "nerds").

vkou 6y ago
Given my anecdotal experience with the parking abilities of the average hummer owner, I would say that isolationist individualism manifests itself as 'screw everyone, I've got mine, and I don't think we live in a society.' So, at least part of that isn't too radically different from the politics a large number of folks working in IT profess.
- mrits 6y ago
  I thought the stereotype of Hummer owners were parking at the other end of the lot away from everybody else.
  - vkou 6y ago
    Maybe in areas that have more cars than people, and thus, an overabundance of parking spaces.
  - InitialLastName 6y ago
    None of the ones I've known would have been capable of walking from the other end of the parking lot without getting winded.
dsr_ 6y ago
It turns out that marketing is not based on realistic appraisals of the world, but on assessing human beliefs about the world. These can diverge greatly.
MaxBarraclough 6y ago
I don't think they were saying that people in the military tend to buy hummers, but instead that people who buy hummers have a sense of military-style machismo.

SkyPuncher 6y ago

I think the timing happens to be pretty much perfect. Cybertruck came out with a radical design. The Hummer EV looks tame in comparison. There's also the new Ford Bronco that feels like it's in the same category (unique, off-road capable vehicles) and a few other truck platforms coming out. To me, it feels a bit like the modern-retro muscle cars of the late 00's. Challenger, Charger, and Camaro all coming out in a similar timeframe generated hype about the category. I don't think any of those cars would be as successful without they're competitors.

awad 6y ago
You're quite right about the timing. Cybertruck is a very polarizing design while the Hummer EV looks like, well, a Hummer which does still appeal to quite a lot of people. Throw in the Rivian and now we're in a new segment. I'm generally happy to see more brands leaning into EV since ultimately consumers win.

momokoko 6y ago

I think you are reading into this a bit much. It is a low volume production run to the point where this is a boutique novelty car. Plenty of people see this more as a fun cool toy than some kind of statement of their allegiance to the wanton destruction of all that is good in the world. Is it a little silly? Sure. It it some kind of thing to make you as mad as you’ve just become? Likely not.

brundolf 6y ago
> It is a low volume production run to the point where this is a boutique novelty car. Tesla started out the same way with the Roadster, and that paved the way for the more mainstream models later on. It punched a hole in existing expectations and cleared a path for what was to come.
- zaroth 6y ago
  Tesla started out that way because EVs were entirely unproven and they had extremely limited capital. It’s not a perfect analogy, but it says a lot about GM that what they are doing in 2020 is on the same scale as what Tesla was doing in 2004-2008 with $60 million in funding.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - brundolf 6y ago
    Ok. I was just talking about strategy/significance: the Roadster opened up EVs for "car guys" and the luxury market. This low-volume hummer could open up EVs for the "military machismo" market, or whatever you want to call it. That could have a big impact, even if it's late.
gamblor956 6y ago
Given that it's more efficient than its ICE counterpart, this could become the standard consumer-model Hummer for the foreseeable future. It's tough. It's freaking huge. And it's the only EV that can off-road. Subaru and Jeep are going to be facing extremely tough competition if GM can produce this in any significant volume.

trhway 6y ago

>military machismo wait until eM1 Abrams. With additional benefit of improved IR signature.

ShorsHammer 6y ago

If you were an "isolationist" with prepping tendencies would you prefer your car to run on oil that needs to be highly refined or electricity, potentially generated in a thousand different ways?

bitwize 6y ago
You would prefer a diesel engine, which could run on rendered biomass if need be.
- theshrike79 6y ago
  Which is better, creating a generator to make electricity to run an engine with one moving part. Vs. creating a rendered biomass pipeline to feed an extremely fiddly engine with hundreds of moving bits and bobs?
  - bob29 6y ago
    The first one.
  - InitialLastName 6y ago
    The engine with one moving part also has an enormous number of electronics that will degrade with time and be on the order of impossible to replace. The fiddly engine's moving bits and bobs will degrade with use, so it should be possible to pull replacements from disused alternatives.
    - theshrike79 6y ago
      An electric motor doesn't really _need_ all the electronics they're just there for optimisation and comfort. If The Shit Hits The Fan for reals, you can just plug in any power source to an electric motor and make it go. Adjusting power can be done with really simple electronic connections. Just an on/off switch will do in a pinch. Good luck trying to find a head gasket for a certain model of ICE though =)

y-c-o-m-b 6y ago

I've always had a soft spot for them thanks to Earth 2 (https://imgur.com/a/yikYi5V https://imgur.com/a/yikYi5V) and I would love to see them used in that regard: as more a cargo/utility EV with less emphasis on the military machismo.

rsync 6y ago

"An electric Hummer counters that brand signaling in unexpected and, for me, surprisingly welcome ways." Compare and contrast to the Volvo brand, and marketing, which sends all of the signals you're looking for ... and can barely be bothered to enter the electric car market. It's basically 2021 and what they have to show is an iMobile or eCar "mobility" initiative (Polestar 2) which is barely more than a concept car. If corporate image manipulation had any basis in reality, we'd have a plain old Volvo V90 electric car by now, based on about 6-8 years of platform development at "the good car company". (I would buy this car, by the way) Instead, I think Volvo and Hummer are both just carmakers and they will behave the way incumbent carmakers behave.

aplummer 6y ago
You can buy plug ins for most volvos and I think the all electric xc40 is a few months away at this point?
virgilp 6y ago
> and can barely be bothered to enter the electric car market. WHAT? Volvo is I think the only traditional car producer that sells absolutely no ICE-only vehicles (all of them are at the very least "mild hybrid"). Its declared goal is to be electric-only, and they certainly seem to be making good progress on that. Sure, they're not Tesla, but I think it's unfair to compare them with Hummer. [edit] here are their (public) goals: https://www.volvocars.com/intl/why-volvo/human-innovation/electrification https://www.volvocars.com/intl/why-volvo/human-innovation/el... - Since 2019, all cars electrified, all cars available in "plug in hybrid" version - 2020, launch full electric vehicles (they did, XC40) - Their goal is 50% plugin hybrid, 50% full electric by 2025
- rconti 6y ago
  As a car enthusiast, I had absolutely no idea of any of this. They're apparently doing a good job hiding it.
  - theshrike79 6y ago

noxer 6y ago

"Emissions-free" is a lie anyway. Tire rubber dust/oil/windshield wiper fluid etc. There is no such thing as an emission-free car. Also gray energy emission (embodied energy) is completely ignore as allays. If we compare average emission per mileage per car over the whole lifetime EVs are just as bad as any other car. The only way to change that is if cars stop being parked 99% of their lifetime. Environmentally the worst thing for a car to do is not being in use. It means more cars are build than work is there for them. Thats how we actually waste resources and pollute completely unnecessary.

emptysongglass 6y ago
> If we compare average emission per mileage per car over the whole lifetime EVs are just as bad as any other car. That sounds totally outside the realm of reason. Please do cite some third-party sources.
- minerjoe 6y ago
  Sounds reasonable to me. Embodied energy. One example, it takes a heck of a lot of energy to mine and process all that copper that goes into the motor windings. Another, it takes a heck of a lot of energy to mine and process all that lithium that goes in the batteries. Plus, where is the electricity comming from to charge them? Here in Montana, that generally means coal, burned hundreds of miles away and transported at great loss.
  - theshrike79 6y ago
    But when the coal plants get shut down and replaced with less polluting options, all electric cars in the state will instantly become less polluting. You do know that the car industry only uses a fraction of a fraction of all electric motors created, right? And the stuff dug out of the ground doesn't mystically disappear, it can still be recycled. Coal and oil will actually just go poof when it's used. It can never be used again.
- theshrike79 6y ago
  They can't because it's not true. The only way to find a third-party source to back that up is either use the one Swedish(?) study, which has been refuted by its original authors or some really ancient source with old data. Depending on the way a country produces most of its electricity, EVs will outperform ICEs in emissions in just a few years. And that's mostly ignoring the emissions from drilling oil, refining it to petrol and moving said petrol to stations.

Reason077 6y ago

> "Ideally, the EV Hummer would offer comparable or better performance than the ICE, though achieving such will likely take further research and investment." The Hummer EV easily beats any ICE Hummer, as well as it's contemporary ICE peers, on all performance metrics except range. In fact, the ICE Hummer was such a gas guzzler that even its range was worse than the Hummer EV. With fuel efficiency as low as 9 miles to the gallon, the Hummer H2's 32.0 US gallon fuel tank would have only given it a range of 288 miles compared to the Hummer EV's 350.

DevKoala 6y ago

What is wrong with “isolationist individualism”? A lot of people enjoy living in far places away from communities. I think that’s my perfect retirement scenario honestly.

InitialLastName 6y ago
> What is wrong with “isolationist individualism”? The enormous externalities of supporting that lifestyle, whose costs are frequently borne in the form of municipal debt, climate devastation, and by (in net, when everyone demands this and fills in-demand areas with widely spaced housing) reducing the available housing stock.
- KozmoNau7 6y ago
  It wouldn't be such a problem if people were willing to accept the simpler, less opulent and lower-impact lifestyle such a housing choice should entail. Living semi-off grid and with a low environmental impact is possible, but it demands deliberate choices and trade-offs.
- DevKoala 6y ago
  How? You get energy from solar panels, water from a well, and internet through satellites. What type of remote living are you condemning? Do you have any evidence for this? Also, I do not understand how someone living further away from a city reduces the housing in a city.

flavius29663 6y ago

Hummer used to be big. But it's smaller than a Suburban, Sequoia and many other "full" trucks out there

Reason077 6y ago
With a length of 5,507 mm, the Hummer EV is larger than a Toyota Sequoia (5,210 mm). And a bit smaller than a Suburban (5,733 mm) Cybertruck is larger again at 5,885 mm, but that may differ for the production version.

Robotbeat 6y ago

I think the Hummer EV is fantastic. It isn't a compromised version of a gasoline vehicle. It truly is an ambitious approach to an electric vehicle. Like triple the power of past Hummers and with more range (!) than the conventional gas guzzlers. It has a bunch of interesting features that showcase the best of GM's engineers. It really is a good flagship. By going for the most machismo vehicle in the line-up, they're helping Tesla destroy any last vestige of electric vehicles as just fancy golf carts. I mean, this was (and in some circles, still is) the popular perception of electric vehicles 17 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcmZ1dof3Qw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcmZ1dof3Qw (Also, in absolute terms, they get the biggest emissions advantage over a conventional powertrain this way. Convert a Hummer from conventional to electric saves like 1 pound of CO2 per mile driven versus like 0.25 pounds saved per mile for, like, a subcompact car.) Vehicles like this are super important for helping convince the general public that climate action and electrification of transport doesn't mean diminished capacity and a smaller, more boring future. I was super impressed by the video GM released on it. I have said skeptical things about past "Tesla killers" and I am very much a Tesla fan, but I only have good things to say about this. With such a huge battery capacity, it might even be useful for towing, who knows!