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GM sells out first year of electric Hummer production
- conk 6y agoDoesn't mean much without GM saying how many were available. Did they get 100, or 100,000 pre-orders?
- waterside81 6y agoYou'd think the first question the reporter would ask is "how many is that?" Such lazy journalism.
- chaostheory 6y agoIt’s really an ad masquerading as a news article http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
- MichaelZuo 6y agoIt’s surprising since it seems directly from reuters and not one of the PR wires. They’re so confident about it!
- chaostheory 6y agoNearly every news outlet and publication does this and not just Reuters. It's very pervasive and it's not new. Sometimes, it's official, other times it's just a PR agency with a story and a reporter who needs one. I'm sure there's a lot of quid pro quo, but there's little that I've seen written on the subject beyond Paul Graham's essay.
- martythemaniak 6y agoLet's not blame the journalists here, if GM was proud of how many they sold out of, they would say so. A journalist asking them isn't going to change that.
- freehunter 6y agoThe job of a journalist is to ask questions and not be satisfied with just repeating what a corporation wants them to say. Just repeating a company's PR is the job of an advertiser.
- datavirtue 6y agoNo....they just want invited back to the next big release party.
- cnlevy 6y ago1 /s
- mabbo 6y agoMy immediate, sarcastic reaction was "WOW! Both of them!?"
- Shivetya 6y agopretty much this same issue came up with the Mach E but they were more than willing to let the news out there were 3500 first edition Broncos. Also concerning is Ford still has not revealed the EPA numbers on the Mach E, still only shows projected.
- itsoktocry 6y ago>Also concerning is Ford still has not revealed the EPA numbers on the Mach E, still only shows projected. Why is that "concerning"? It probably hasn't been officially tested yet. Anyway, what does it matter when you can make adjustments to your EPA number have the car actually under-perform range in the real world by 25% or more: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a33824052/adjustment-factor-tesla-uses-for-big-epa-range-numbers/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a33824052/adjustment-f...
- jlv2 6y agoAnd with only a $100 deposit, the pre-orders don't mean much.
- Animats 6y agoRefundable, too. Still, it's so expensive GM will make money on it. They probably won't have any problem making however many people are willing to order. It's a niche item, though. Ford has an electric F-150 truck coming out.[1] Ford's goal is to make a cost-effective work truck, not a "lifestyle vehicle". If they succeed at that, the impact on the industry will be huge. [1] https://www.autoblog.com/2020/09/17/electric-ford-f-150-details-powerful-truck/ https://www.autoblog.com/2020/09/17/electric-ford-f-150-deta...
- KozmoNau7 6y agoIf they want to make it a good work truck, they need to bring the bed back down to a reasonable level. It's ridiculously high now.
- jessaustin 6y agoAmen, brother. Modern bed height is untenable. I'm 6', and I can only reach the tools that miraculously didn't roll more than a foot from the side. All day, it's constant climbing up on the tire or bumper. Sometimes something is close enough to reach by jumping and belly-flopping over the side. Give me an old Toyota mini pickup any day. Misguided people will tell us that it's all about 4WD, but you see the same phenomenon in 2WD trucks and besides it didn't used to take so much clearance to add another differential under the engine and engines are smaller now anyway. The real reason is to sell pickups to people who don't need pickups. If they worked for a living they'd get annoyed just like we are. They should have been sold lift kits instead.
- PaulHoule 6y agoI am always skeptical about what car makers say about sales. The media will tell you that Americans only like to buy large cars, but try to buy a small car and you will find they don't have any in stock -- but look, here are 50 trucks for 40% off lined up in a row. It used to be just American car manufacturers that did that, but it happened to me when I went to a Honda dealership looking for a Fit, which they didn't have new because the factory washed out, but here we have 20 CR-Vs from the same factory on sale, why not take one of them?
- freehunter 6y agoCar dealers have to pay upfront for all the cars on their lot. They're not going to stock vehicles that don't sell. So naturally there aren't a lot of small cars on the lots because those cars just sit there losing money and depreciating in value. Same reason it's nearly impossible to find a rear-wheel drive car in areas where it snows regularly. You can go further south and find plenty of RWD cars, but few northern dealerships will stock cars that can't be driven half of the year. CRVs sell in large numbers so dealerships stock them. Fits don't sell in large numbers so dealers don't stock as many. It's not a conspiracy.
- PaulHoule 6y agoPeople want fits bad enough that they buy them lightly used at new prices.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Donald 6y agoCorrect. Automakers have redirected the American compact car market to larger sedans and especially crossovers to increase profit margins.
- csharptwdec19 6y ago> The media will tell you that Americans only like to buy large cars, but try to buy a small car and you will find they don't have any in stock -- but look, here are 50 trucks for 40% off lined up in a row. Lots of Americans don't like to buy things without thinking they're getting a sweet deal. Most small cars your average American will consider are fairly low-margin items unless you go uptrim. Often the only times incentives are possible are because of severely slumped sales of a model, usually the only time you'll see those kinds of numbers off on a car is if it's an older MY or otherwise definitely on it's way out of the lineup. SUVs and Trucks have historically been priced higher, with larger margins. The Automakers can give nice looking discounts to prospective buyers while still making more money. > It used to be just American car manufacturers that did that, but it happened to me when I went to a Honda dealership looking for a Fit, which they didn't have new because the factory washed out, but here we have 20 CR-Vs from the same factory on sale, why not take one of them? The Fit was assembled in Mexico; my gut says the new trade agreement made it unprofitable to continue selling under that setup (possibly foreign parts content?) The other thing to note; It's a lot easier to fit a battery pack in an SUV than a car, doubly so when we consider these manufacturers are likely looking to retrofit existing unibody designs to electric if they can.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- 205guy 6y agoExactly, this number is conspicuously absent from any stories about this. Googling for this information ("hummer preorders") only finds a bunch of similar articles about being sold-out, or reserved-out, with no numbers either. The following article credits Electrek.co with the info, but no mention of it on their website. https://www.motor1.com/news/450123/hummer-ev-edition-1-sold-out/ https://www.motor1.com/news/450123/hummer-ev-edition-1-sold-... I wonder if there will be vocal GM short-sellers now too.
- itsoktocry 6y ago>Exactly, this number is conspicuously absent from any stories about this. This is a legacy company trying to implement the Tesla marketing strategy, and, as often happens, it feels a bit contrived. Interesting that people question everything when it's GM and question nothing when it's Tesla though. Remember 450,000 Model 3 reservations? Have they even sold that many yet?
- m463 6y agoThere are so many elephants in this room that they have every bit of marketing on full alert. Marketing is telling half the story, the best half. (except for the superbowl ad, which was inventing a story to tell) It's too bad they didn't capitalize on a few more differentiating points. "Full sized dashboard in front of you" "We will sell you parts and a service manual." "You don't have to hook your car to the internet if you don't want."
- ultrablack 6y agoBoth of them?
- jaeming 6y agoMeanwhile Tesla just keeps taking pre-orders regardless of their production projections for next year. Tesla may be afraid to admit to the public how many pre-orders they've actually taken. > The number is "at least 200,000." Musk made the comment during an interview with Automotive News on Sunday, and it's a significantly lower figure than the running total compiled by a crowdsourced list. Fans keeping track of their order numbers estimated that there have been approximately 727,000 reservations for the electric pickup truck. source: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/elon-musk-tesla-cybertruck-reservations/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/elon-musk-tesla-cybertruc...
- kingbirdy 6y agoWhat's in it for Tesla to downplay demand for their product?
- afjl 6y agoI guess fans/media won't be as upset when production doesn't meet projected targets? Or maybe Musk just forgot the actual number and was guesstimating.
- gamblor956 6y agoStock price. If they overstate demand, the SEC can fine them for stock manipulation later. Downplaying demand is the conservative position to take, since it's not clear how many reservations will actually convert to sales.
- lenitabinol 6y agoPreorder deposits are listed on their balance sheet every quarter...
- ogre_codes 6y agoThought Musk said they stopped counting after half a million pre-sales of the Cybertruck. Of course since most of these trucks won't see the light of day until sometime in 2022, it really doesn't make too much difference at this point. If Riviian or Tesla starts shipping in volume before the Hummer (or Cybertruck if Riviian is out the door first) is out, what is a refundable presale deposit worth?
- mtmail 6y ago"start production in the fall of 2021" So "first year" is 2-3 months? [edit] Thanks for the responses reg models years vs calendar years. Makes sense.
- freeone3000 6y agoModel years move independently - this would be their production from fall of 2021 to fall of 2022. Doesn't say how many that IS, though.
- Svip 6y agoCar production years have been for the better part of the last century autumn to spring, where summer is used to refit the factories for new models.
- mistersquid 6y agoThe Hummer brand signals military machismo with emphasis on isolationist individualism and little to no regard for the environment. An electric Hummer counters that brand signaling in unexpected and, for me, surprisingly welcome ways. Converting a large gallons-to-the-mile ICE to an emissions-free electric drive train shows a willingness to cannibalize a previously successful marketing brand with a more responsible offering. Ideally, the EV Hummer would offer comparable or better performance than the ICE, though achieving such will likely take further research and investment. Such manufacturing and marketing moves, though late in coming, are laudable and I sincerely hope such companies blow through their wildest sales projections in the EV market.
- gameswithgo 6y agoElectric drive is so superior for a lot of those machismo things. Traction, torque, acceleration. It is all just better. Only the noise is sub par =)
- ksherlock 6y agoYou can't roll coal, either.
- gogopuppygogo 6y agoJust wait. Some guy is going to strap a modified charcoal grill to the thing just for that purpose.
- brianwawok 6y agoI am sure you could get a smoke generator addon.
- jlv2 6y agoWith an estimated 200kWh battery pack and only 350 miles of range, the EV Hummer continues to show little to no regard for efficiency, making it perfect for the Hummer brand.
- dashundchen 6y ago> The brawny truck can “crab walk” sideways on rough terrain using its four-wheel steering system, and has a “Watts to Freedom” mode that accelerates the truck to 60 miles per hour (97 kph) in 3 seconds. I am all about electrification but as a cyclist and pedestrian, I really don't want to be around 3000kg vehicles that can accelerate this fast.
- l72 6y agoAgreed! I really feel that it is time for our city centers to put restrictions on the type of vehicles that are allowed on the streets. I imagine this would be based on size, weight, and horsepower (or something similar). Exceptions would only be granted for verifiable business reasons. If you want this truck for cruising in rural areas or on the highway, fine, but don't bring it to the city where there are pedestrians, cyclists, narrow roads, and limited parking.
- watt 6y agoStop with the panic. Buses and garbage trucks are fine in your book, I presume? So how is this worse?
- nebolo 6y agoHave you ever seen a bus or garbage truck accelerate 0-60 in 3 seconds?
- yaacov 6y agoBecause they’re driven by trained professionals? I’ve never seen a bus or garbage truck run a red light at full speed, drive 50 on a neighborhood street, or do donuts in an intersection. I see cars do those things all the time.
- moftz 6y agoAnecdotal but I see buses run really late yellow and even red lights all the time.
- Communitivity 6y agoProjecting from GM Sierra production in a year, and a comment elsewhere that the Edition 1 reserve was one year's production, this could be as many as 200 thousand Hummer EV Edition 1, each at $112K per. To put this in perspective, there are perhaps 171,670 homeless families in America, according to https://endhomelessness.org/homelessness-in-america/homelessness-statistics/state-of-homelessness-2020/ https://endhomelessness.org/homelessness-in-america/homeless.... That means each person who reserved an Edition 1 could have bought a $30k car instead and the rest of the money could have bought a house for a homeless, resulting in no homeless families in our country. We need to get our priorities straight. I am all for EVs, but we need them mandated as the norm, not luxury status symbols that cost as much as a house. When they are mandated and gas models aren't sold then manufacturers will make cheaper models to meet the market's demand.
- selectodude 6y ago>I am all for EVs, but we need them mandated as the norm, not luxury status symbols that cost as much as a house. When they are mandated and gas models aren't sold then manufacturers will make cheaper models to meet the market's demand. That isn't how that works. You can't just make something cheaper by fiat. It takes time, demand and technological advancement. Banning new ICE vehicles unilaterally will make it so nobody can afford a new car.
- Zenbit_UX 6y ago> That means each person who reserved an Edition 1 could have bought a $30k car instead and the rest of the money could have bought a house for a homeless, resulting in no homeless families in our country. And does that have to do with the price of butter?
- goshx 6y agoThey said it was a limited edition and do you really think so many people would be willing to spend $100k plus? GM also admitted they don't have a real, working hummer EV at this point. All the numbers are "GM Estimates", so I highly doubt they'd offer more than 1000 units on something they might not be able to achieve. edit: heck, even the number of motors is "estimated"
- geocrasher 6y agoGreat on paper, but have you seen this thing? It looks like a Cybertruck and a Jeep JK had a baby, then a 2021 Ford Bronco and a Delorean had a baby. Then the kids grew up and got married to each other and gave birth to this EV monstrosity.
- ntsplnkv2 6y agoHonestly I think it looks pretty cool, way better looking than the Cybertruck. Honestly we should be praising this - we need more electric vehicles and while this is a luxury toy that is where Tesla started. EDIT: Honestly, I say honestly way too much :)
- obelos 6y agoI don't care what these run on, they don't belong in cities.
- bearjaws 6y agoOne thing people aren't talking enough about is, the charging. A 200kwh battery that only gets 300mi of range is TERRIBLE. Especially if they are making the numbers pretty like Tesla does. Even the fastest at home charger you can buy will take ~22 hours to charge the vehicle, or more like 18 hours if you do standard 20% to 80% charging. If you daily drive this thing 300 miles a week, you will need to charge it for almost an entire day of that week. Let's take 40 miles a day as an example, it will need a charge by Saturday, and it will basically charge all the way until late Sunday... The 800v charger they are referencing has no network, I cannot even find one in the entire state of Florida. This thing is years out from being practical, where as a Tesla is practical today.
- adrianN 6y agoYou plug in electric vehicles over night, or whenever you're parking. Charging time is only an issue for long roadtrips.
- notatoad 6y agocharging time is an issue wherever it takes longer than the vehicle is expected to park. i genearally agree that people overvalue fast charging, but if the parent comment is accurate and it will take 22hrs to charge on a home charger, that's longer than overnight charging. that's really not acceptable.
- rconti 6y agoYeah, the charger for my model 3 charges at the car's max onboard charger current of 48a; 48a * 240v = 11.520kW. We charge the car to 90%, every time the battery is down to perhaps 100 miles of range, and it takes ~3h. Technically 0-75kWh at max current (which wouldn't happen but let's play) would take 6.5 hours. For the Hummer, 200/11.520 = 17.4 hours. Yikes.
- Hypx 6y agoAt 200 kWh this might not be possible. Depending on your charging speed, you might not be able to fully recharge in one night.
- jeffbee 6y agoMunicipal governments need to get in front of this b.s. and make sure this vehicle cannot be legally operated on any public road.
- sp332 6y agoIf you want to know about specs, Ars Technica has a more informative article. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/10/american-excess-is-back-with-the-1000hp-2022-gmc-hummer-ev-truck/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/10/american-excess-is-back...
- mikestew 6y agoAnyone who has tried to purchase anything from GM that wasn't a truck or an econobox knows that they never make enough cars that people actually want to buy (or more accurately, cars the I want to buy). So I'm not surprised GM sold out of e-Hummers, they're probably making all of six of them. I'm sure there's some MBA-speak that explains it, like keep supply low on halo vehicles to make the overall GM brand seem appealing. But the end result has been that I've owned one GM car about 30 years ago (Geo Prizm), and only because my parents worked for GM and got a substantial discount. Since then, I've just kind of given up on them. Even if they make something I like, they won't make enough of them.
- officeplant 6y agoFunny considering the only GM product you've owned was based around a Toyota, but somehow made horrible.
- mikestew 6y agobut somehow made horrible I'm unclear on your meaning. I loved that car, where does "horrible" fit in?
- PopeDotNinja 6y agoAnother way of saying it is the Toyota Corolla was a Geo Prizm that didn’t suck.
- mikestew 6y agoThanks, that clarifies it. I think it indicates a predisposition toward “American cars suck!”, but to each their own.
- officeplant 6y agoWhat I meant was they managed to cheapen an already affordable budget car. It still was a decent car mechanically and provided you take care of it would still run fine today. Growing up with friends who had one or the other the plastics tended to fail a lot more often with the Geo models. Same could be said for the headliners and vinyl on the dash and A-pillars. The vinyl in one friends Prizm seemed to have shrinkage issues as it pulled itself away from all the corners before falling apart. I can be biased against American cars at times, because at one point they did fall far behind the quality coming out of Europe/Asia. Ever since global models of cars took off they have improved greatly. I worked for nearly 5 running an online auto parts store and yeah no car is perfect and they all suffer from some issue in the end.
- ogre_codes 6y agoTo me, the big story about the Cybertruck has always been that it's a Tesla that's being launched price competitive with equivalent ICE vehicles. A 2WD Tundra or F150 with King Cab style 4 doors is only a couple grand less than the Cybertruck. A year of gas savings puts you ahead of the game in the Cybertruck. With the Hummer at $110,000? All that goes out the door. You can buy a loaded to the gills gas guzzler and pay for 10 years of gas and still have $10,000 in the bank. Ultimately the Cybertruck is the sort of EV which might hit mass adoption. The price is decent, Tesla has the brand to carry it, so long as the truck delivers on it's promises, I can see the Cybertruck being a huge hit. The Hummer is destined to ship a few thousand in the first couple years, then gather dust in showrooms.
- foepys 6y ago> Ultimately the Cybertruck is the sort of EV which might hit mass adoption. This car is too big for European streets. Might sale well in parts of the US but that's it.
- ogre_codes 6y ago> This car is too big for European streets. Yep, but then most American trucks it's designed to offset are as well.
- theshrike79 6y agoThey're making a smaller version for EU.
- ogre_codes 6y agoI sure hope they do and make it available in the US too. I have a very pickup truck lifestyle, but a smaller truck would work fine.
- rightbyte 6y agoHonest question. Except for wild game and things that stink in general, why do you get a pick-up instead of eg. a big combi? They are so common in the US but only hunters and farmers have them where I live.
- bgorman 6y agoI live near Beverly Hills. 1/2 of cars are here are either a Mercedes G-Class, Range Rover, Porcshe Cayenne or BMW X6. The EV Hummer car will sell like hotcakes here. It achieves it's main goal of looking cool and distinct from the other cars here, not to mention it can use EV parking spots.
- Nbox9 6y agoIf 1/2 of cars are in one of 4 categories, than at least one of those categories has to have 1/8th of the car population. That’s all fine and good, but at that point buying one of those vehicles is more about fitting in than standing out.
- frankus 6y agoThe shape of this thing reminds me of one of those desktop calculator apps that have on-screen number keys. Physical calculators need number keys, or else there’s no way to enter numbers, but a device with a keyboard doesn’t need a bunch of number keys that no one is ever going to click on. They’re just decoration, and there’s no reason to add them aside from telling people “hey, this is a calculator”. Likewise a vehicle like the electric Hummer (or the Rivian truck and SUV) doesn’t need that visibility- and pedestrian-killing codpiece that they have mounted over the electric drivetrain (which likely doesn’t extend beyond the envelope of the wheel wells). There’s no need for it except to tell people “hey, this is a truck”. Except in this case it’s a design element that is literally killing an increasing number of people every year[1], not just a bit of wasted screen real estate. I really hope this design language eventually goes the way of way of the Landau[2], either by way of some forward-thinking EV designer who doesn’t keep copying the mistakes of ICE vehicles, or that people finally wake up to how utterly ridiculous these vehicles look[3], or by way of some kind of minimal standards around forward visibility[4] and pedestrian injury potential. [1] https://www.codot.gov/safety/traffic-safety-pulse/2019/march-2019/death-on-foot-americas-love-of-suvs-is-killing-pedestrians https://www.codot.gov/safety/traffic-safety-pulse/2019/march... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landau_(automobile) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landau_(automobile) [3] https://twitter.com/verge/status/1318208829675491329 https://twitter.com/verge/status/1318208829675491329 [4] https://twitter.com/ItsMcMikeTime/status/1296801390862446597?s=20 https://twitter.com/ItsMcMikeTime/status/1296801390862446597...
- mNovak 6y agoThe concept you're referring to with drawing obsolete design features from the past is called Skeuomorphism. It's a huge pet peeve of mine. Apple products used to be bad about this. Tesla has done well to design away the ICE front grill. Though even the original Model S had a fake grill to not throw people off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeuomorph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeuomorph
- dzhiurgis 6y ago> Tesla has done well to design away the ICE front grill I thought consensus was opposite.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- leesec 6y agoDid anyone else get the sense that all shots of the car in the "unveiling" were animated? Seemed very bizarre.
- rasz 6y agoAfaik they dont have a single working unit. Youtubers were "reviewing" empty shells with 3d printed interior.
- xtiansimon 6y agoCitroen makes a 25k electric vehicle, with a $25/mo. lease, where you have an instrument panel you put your mobile, and sized from just 2 people. GM decides 105k just short of an Escalade, prolly seats 6-8. And I'm sure I will see them here in NY/Long Island, and just like every other car on the road, you'll see one person behind the wheel.
- kgin 6y agoThis car is more about rebranding GM as an electric vehicle company. Even if they only break even, it's an extremely inexpensive PR campaign to change what people are talking about when they talk about GM.