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iPhone 12 Pro so costly in India, you can fly to Dubai to buy it and save money
- seldonnn 6y agoThe news here is probably more about the decline in aircraft ticket prices than some surprising change in India iPhone costs.
- smeyer 6y agoI wish the article went into the cause of the price difference. Is it high import taxes/sales taxes/etc., restrictions that make the phone harder to produce or sell for the Indian market, or just Apple deciding to charge a sizably higher markup in India than elsewhere?
- distant_hat 6y agoIts mostly taxes and duties, though Apple products are generically costlier in India. When Apple used to charge for OS updates, if you paid in Indian Rupees it would be somewhat more expensive than you would expect for exchange rate considerations.
- eptcyka 6y agoApple still does some ridiculous differential pricing cherades. As a developer, you don't get to set the price for your product and in app purchases for the global market, you give them a price in dollars for US, and Apple will adjust the price as they see fit for each market you pick.
- dartharva 6y agoIt's both.
- dtertman 6y agoIf people were willing and able to fly, the free market would close this arbitrage by ... driving up the cost of flying to Dubai. The other prices are controlled.
- vmception 6y agooh sweet summer child people flying to dubai on different days across different flights to buy a couple iphones for themselves, or even as speculators, would not make a big enough dent Apple will more likely correct the pricing discrepancy to sell more iphones in India themselves
- abtom 6y agoThe article assumes you will not be paying the import duty charged in India i.e. you're bringing an open box/you own the iPhone you bring from Dubai. If you were to start a business bringing in phones in bulk you would have to pay the import duty after transportation and logistics cost which would leave a negligible margin for you. It can only be viable if you choose not to pay the import duty in which case it's smuggling (if you're bringing in with intention to sell).
- deadalus 6y agohttps://twitter.com/scarysouthpaw/status/1318517195064791044 https://twitter.com/scarysouthpaw/status/1318517195064791044
- ashconnor 6y agoExactly. The Coleen Rooney effect. Most people get away with it until they don't. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/nothing-to-declare-coleen-is-collared-by-uk-customs-535119.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/nothing-to-decla...
- dry_soup 6y agoSince the article lists prices in INR: The price of the iPhone 12 Pro in India in USD today is $1,615.22, and the price in Dubai is $1,140.15. So it must be possible to fly round-trip to Dubai for less than about $475, which seems plausible.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 6y agoThere are actually quite a few regularly scheduled flights to Dubai from India that can be acquired cheaply - a not-insignificant amount of the area’s migrant workers originate from India.
- newen 6y agoNot even like you have to go there yourself. Just get friends and family to do it when they’re visiting.
- umeshunni 6y agoQuick check on google flights shows flights less than $200 for BOM-DXB most days next week.
- wtmt 6y agoThe calculation is not as simple as that. Any imports above INR 50K (about USD 676), while traveling back to India by Indian citizens, attract import duties (of 35% or so, IIRC). So the $1140.15 device, when it lands in India, would attract a duty on the excess amount. Of course, people may not declare it at customs or may try to claim it's a used device (while not having any other phone), but this is the official law.
- jonplackett 6y agoAnyone wondering, the base price of the iPhone 12 pro is in the article as 119900 rupees which is $1,627.61 according to google.
- Jeremy1026 6y agoWell thats definitely better for the environment.
- wlesieutre 6y agoSimilarly but without COVID-suppressed airline prices, I remember back before Creative Cloud reading that it was cheaper to fly from Australia to the US to buy Creative Suite
- LeonM 6y agoThis goes for many products and services, because of different tax and import rates. From Europe it is often still cheaper to fly to a different country to buy clothes, electronics, etc. Problem is that you still have to pay the import tax once you cross the border back into your own country. Hence why many airline crew ran (run?) side hustles of buying and selling luxury goods, since they were (are?) rarely checked at the border of their home country.
- cptthrowaway 6y agoCan't you just buy some electronics, throw away all receipts and such and simply claim to customs that you had it already for a while? For example, when I bought my Audio Technica ATH-M50X in the US for about $100 (while in my country they were about twice as expensive) I just had it around my neck as I was listening music through it. No one asked a thing. In all fairness, I went to the US for fun and got a chance to use them at a demo and was immediately sold.
- frutiger 6y ago> simply claim to customs that you had it already for a while? You can also simply hold a knife to a stranger and ask them to empty their wallet. Both happen to be illegal, however.
- smabie 6y agoillegal doesn't mean very much when customs is about shaking you down, stealing your stuff, and making you pay bribes. Every time I've traveled to Africa for example, I've had to give customs officers some stuff and money. It got so bad that I was buying Bluetooth speakers and duty free gin just for them.
- frutiger 6y agoWhat’s the lesson here? That when the rule of law is weak we should all steal what we can?
- marvindanig 6y agoAnd then all those exorbitant taxes and duties will end up in hidden swiss banks and in the hands of lowly fascists that control India. It's a well-oiled machine if you ask me!
- pedro_hab 6y agoSame in Brazil, here the import taxes are crazy, coupled with regular taxes it amounts to 100% (doubling the price). In the case of the iPhone you might need to find a cheap flight to the US, but a Macbook will land you a couple days in Disney.
- speeder 6y agoI came to say this, but since you already said, another information: Some years ago a lawmaker calculated the taxes for game consoles and concluded they are 273% of the US price. Also when Sony was heavily bashed for the price of Playstation 4 at launch, people claiming they were price gouging, Sony blamed taxes, so I went and calculated the taxes myself, as if my store would sell it (I own a store but sell other stuff). End result was that Sony wasn't lying, 71% of the final price was taxes.
- crazygringo 6y agoYup. It's actually remarkable to me that the Brazilian government continues to add these taxes that, last I checked, were highest in the world. The original justification was that it would spur domestic manufacture of computers, consoles, laptops, etc. Obviously that hasn't happened. All it's done is make anything involving computing ridiculously expensive. I truly don't understand why there isn't democratic pressure to repeal the insane import duties on electronics. It's like most people in Brazil have just accepted that's how domestic prices are without really questioning it. I don't get it.
- pmcollins 6y agoSame in tiny Uruguay, but it's even more preposterous to say that they're trying to protect or incentivize a local consumer electronics manufacturing industry. As a thought experiment, you could take the concept of tariffs and apply it to an ever decreasing geographic area. Maybe my city should try to protect its jobs and industry and therefore levy a 100% tariff on goods made in other cities. Same for my neighborhood or city block. Ultimately, it's also a tragically regressive tax. Wealthy families that regularly travel to Miami or New York don't suffer much from it -- they just buy their electronics there. They may even make some money by bringing some home and selling the goods for much more than they paid. If you're poor and you need to buy a laptop or phone on your meager salary, you're screwed.
- victords 6y agoThis sort of thing is quite common in a lot of places. Years ago I remember that I wanted to buy one of those Rock Band sets for Playstation that came with the whole band. But they were so expensive back in Brazil, that I did the math and it was the same price to fly to Miami, book a hotel for the weekend, buy the set, and come back.
- nikhizzle 6y agoThe article excludes the cost of import duty, and other taxes (see daedalus's comment). It is a false argument to say that if I didn't pay tax things could be cheaper eg. if I break the law I can get a cheaper iPhone. Getting caught for breaking the law is a stochastic system, but the expected value is lower than most people think. Edit: How far are people willing to take this? Should we share an article saying someone got a free iPhone by buying a machine gun and stealing a truck full of iPhones? Where is the efficient frontier of breaking the law vs cheaper goods?
- thysultan 6y agoTaxation is theft!
- kzrdude 6y agoDepends on the legitimacy of government
- wow_yes 6y agoProperty is theft from the commons - and here this is doubly untrue: the taxes are a reasonable level on a global mega-corporation with millions of people in near-slave conditions.
- me_me_me 6y agoPublic road is a crime! what else... Free oxygen is communism!
- thysultan 6y ago"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it"
- iso1631 6y agoIn that case, you using any publicly funded service or good - including education, roads and defence, is theft.
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y agoI live in New York. Thank God I quit smoking in 1980. A pack of cigarettes in New York costs about $15, in some stores, and no less than $10, outside of the local Native American facilities/reservations. That's almost all taxes.
- brtkdotse 6y ago> That's almost all taxes. I mean, that’s a good thing, right? Smokers should pay for the externalities their habit has on society as a whole.
- fierarul 6y ago... and I feel that less than $1 per cigarette so somebody else enjoys 2nd hand smoke doesn't come even near to covering it.
- smabie 6y agoOkay, how much do you think a cigarette should cost?
- NullPrefix 6y agoAbout $3.50
- fierarul 6y agoI dunno, how much should I be fined for, say, screaming on a megaphone while you try to enjoy your meal? I think they should be banned altogether in locations where non smokers might be. Putting a price on this seems the odd way to go.
- nmfisher 6y agoExcept smokers actually aren't actually a net cost to the healthcare system, because they die earlier. "complete smoking cessation would produce a net increase in health care costs" https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199710093371506 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199710093371506
- crossroadsguy 6y agoThis piece of taxation engendered tidbit is getting too much attention in India. Now it’s on HN front page. It’s seems unlikely but I wouldn’t put it past Apple. OTOH I don’t mind these high taxes, for a country like India an iPhone is indeed a luxury, if only the tax money didn’t go directly to party funds and offshore accounts one way or the other.
- MattGaiser 6y agoEh, I think it is just crazy to those of us in North America that import duties can be that high.
- iso1631 6y ago"as of May 2019, the US has the highest tariff rate among all developed nations with a trade-weighted tariff rate of 4.2%"
- robertlagrant 6y ago> It is no secret that the taxes and duties that are applied to imported phones are highest in India. The taxes are so high that for an important iPhone that you will end up paying an average tax of Rs 24,000 for something like an iPhone 12 or iPhone 12 Mini. > However, despite the sky-rocketing prices, iPhone still sells best in India and the buyers give whatever price Apple asks them to pay. So for a business, that is not a bad deal at all. Not really a good deal for Apple. More like an amazing deal for the Indian government.
- ampdepolymerase 6y agoMore like the government is incompetent for failing to use policy to move manufacturing to India and instead raising prices for the average consumer.
- kumarvvr 6y agoIf the govt reduces taxes, doesnt that incentivize apple to just make them elsewhere and ship to India? I thought high taxes are the incentive to start manufacturing or assembly locally.
- sharpneli 6y agoHigh tariffs are an incentive. Not taxes. Import tax == tariff basically.
- kumarvvr 6y agoAren't tariffs and taxes the same thing? In this context, import taxes are tariffs.
- mcculley 6y agoCertainly there is an inflection point where demand meets a taxed price that would cause Apple to build a factory in India. If Apple is not currently building a factory in India, then that point has not been reached and the result is just higher prices for Indians.
- Thaxll 6y agoSame for Canada, often buying in the US is cheaper.
- gruez 6y agoIt's cheaper, but not by much. I checked apple's canadian and US site, and iPhone 12 128GB unlocked is only ~$40 cheaper when factoring in currency rates. That advantage probably evaporates once you factor in currency conversion costs, customs brokerage costs, and shipping costs.
- knuthsat 6y agoHow exactly do you avoid customs when flying back? Electronics is cheaper in US but every time I fly back to Europe they check my bags.
- kzrdude 6y agoWhich country? My friend just told me that the stuff they ordered in bulk from China to Europe entered the customs area in Hungary. In theory the customs rules are the same wherever you enter the EU, but I guess these companies have found a "port" where the checks are more lenient or less rigorous (saving time and money, not go to around the law). From anecdotes only, German customs are thorough, they check every parcel, and this is not the case all across the EU.
- adwww 6y agoIn the UK I get every single parcel from the US intercepted, but I've never had anything intercepted when ordering from Hong Kong. In theory both the US and HK should be taxed the same. The most annoying thing is the Post Office charging a handling fee on top of any tax due...
- vladvasiliu 6y agoYou have an allowance for "personal goods", such as a phone [0]. In this case it's probably borderline illegal (IANAL), but I suppose people would throw away the box and everything while abroad. Whenever I flew in France from outside the EU no one asked me where I bought my phone, laptop or camera. Anecdotally, several times I was carrying camera gear bought from the US because it was cheaper to pay for shipping + VAT + taxes than buying locally... [0] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=legissum%3Al11002 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=legissum...
- crazygringo 6y agoAt least with Brazil, in practice you're allowed a single personal computer and phone. If you come back to the country with both your old phone and new phone you'll have problems. But if you leave without a phone or laptop, and come back with both, without packaging, with apps and files loaded and everything, and claim you'd brought them in Brazil originally, you're fine. So that's what people do. If you have a legitimate need to bring multiple devices to and fro, at one point there was a form you'd fill out at the airport when leaving where you'd put down serial numbers and they'd verify on return. With something like a PS4 it might be a little riskier, but you could probably spin some kind of story they'd accept, as long as it appears similarly used and not in packaging. ("I was visiting family and my nephew wanted to play PS4 so I brought mine for the week!")
- Santosh83 6y agoI'm sorry but other than brand value, what do Apple products get Indian users that simply cannot be got from other companies? If the price from a trillion dollar company is this costly, then vote with your wallets for god's sake. Simply don't buy. There are (fortunately) plenty of viable alternatives to Apple that are more reasonably priced.
- Razengan 6y agoWhat do you use? Why don't you use something cheaper instead?
- umanwizard 6y agoWhy do people drive Teslas instead of Hondas? iPhones are the best product on the market, and not everyone is price-conscious.
- smabie 6y agoYou think Apple wants them to be this expensive? It's 100% the government's fault
- turing_complete 6y agoIf you value you time at zero.
- 0xffff2 6y agoOr if you value a trip to Dubai at more than the price of the airline ticket.
- geodel 6y agoMay be government hasn't really caught up to phone import but if I bring in a brand new computer from outside India I have to pay custom duty on that.
- xplune 6y agoYes you do. https://twitter.com/scarysouthpaw/status/1318517195064791044 https://twitter.com/scarysouthpaw/status/1318517195064791044
- bonestamp2 6y agoiPhone Tourism
- prionassembly 6y agoThis happened with the PS4 in Brazil. I had a friend who was unemployed and really going through a shitty spell. Then the news that you could go to Miami buy a PS4 and resell here came up. He started doing this all the time, and then going to the parks and whatnot. Eventually he started living there and working in tourism. Finally, he arranged to bring the capital to open a tourism agency in Miami and stay there for good. Last time there was a hurricane I texted him and he said "yeah, we boarded up the house; I'm living at a Disney hotel for the time being". So that's what happens.
- mcculley 6y agoCrime pays. The system is working as designed.
- addicted 6y agoI don’t understand the difference in the pricing between the base iPhone and iPhone pro. It’s 50000 Rupees which is about $700, although in the US it’s only $300.
- brundolf 6y agoEven $300 is a big premium for what you get. Basically just an extra camera and a LIDAR sensor that nobody knows what to do with yet. Oh, and a shiny stainless-steel band around the edge. I think what Apple has realized is that a certain subset of their customers will always want the best model, no matter how little sense the price makes compared to the regular model. For some people, it will always be a status symbol (or an enthusiast's obsession). Or they're of the economic class where $300 just doesn't even register on their budget. As one reviewer put it, the 12 Pro is "the shiny one", and for some people that's all it takes. What this amounts to is that these whales can subsidize things like the $400 SE model, which is an incredible value. And I'm completely fine with that arrangement personally.
- outoftheabyss 6y agoI would add to that a brighter screen, the base has twice the storage and the pro has better camera capabilities (that could actually be claimed to be 'pro'). When you equalise the storage, the price differential is about $200.
- brundolf 6y agoI forgot about the storage, but the "better camera capabilities" are pretty minor. I watched reviews of both.
- Shorel 6y agoI wonder if such LIDAR sensor can help with laser scanning a karting track.
- therealbilly 6y agoI wonder what the India government is doing with all the tariff money they are collecting. Their citizens should be asking that question.
- wodenokoto 6y agoThat was a recurrent article in Denmark about MacBook Pro. The price difference for a high spec machine could easily pay for a return ticket to the states. It’s not that uncommon
- rado 6y agoThat's funny. I loved gadget savings tourism: a tablet from the US, a laptop from HK, a camera from Japan...
- fomine3 6y agoWhat is a tablet from the US?
- elchin 6y agoI remember when I lived in Germany, it was cheaper to fly to US and buy the highest end MacBook there, and fly back, instead of buying in Germany. The price was the same number in USD and EUR, and this was when EUR was strong.
- torgian 6y agoDecent article explaining the prices, and also the influences of taxes and import duties. But the author kinda makes it sound like it’s Apples fault for their price ing in India. Really the government’s fault for imposing such high duties and taxes. I just don’t understand it from a morality perspective .
- eddhead 6y agoIt's to encourage local production, which Apple itself does
- acwan93 6y agoOn a much smaller scale, this is achieved in the US by going to a no sales tax state like Oregon or Delaware. With the sales tax in Los Angeles at 10.25%, I’ve ended up queuing up large purchases together, buying a round trip ticket to Portland ($200-300) and hitting up the Apple Store, Target, Best Buy there. And get a free trip to Portland! I’ve read the Christiana Mall in Delaware is especially popular for people living along the I-95 corridor for this very purpose.
- freebasenic 6y agoYou pay the tax during tax season though, _right_ ?
- ed25519FUUU 6y agoAt least a few years ago there was some bogus California tax thing where they added some money your tax bill assuming you were buying things online and other places without paying sales tax.
- gilrain 6y agoThat's just a convenient, estimated option for if you choose not to keep track of your untaxed purchases yourself.
- 0xfaded 6y agoHaha, I looked into doing this for an avionics upgrade for a light aircraft I used to have a share in. Apparently the taxman actually has time to chase down people who fly their aircraft around for tax reasons. To be clear, we wound up doing the upgrade in California where the aircraft was based.
- acwan93 6y agoI think state governments go after large purchases, like (pricy) wedding rings, aircraft, cars, or anything like that simply because that's where they'll get the biggest return. It might be an urban legend now, but I've heard of a soon-to-be-married couple purchasing a wedding ring in Portland, OR, and making several trips from SF to Portland. They took photos of the ring at typical Portland attractions (Mt. Hood, Multnomah Falls, food carts), and did that for several months. Doing that, after adding up all the flight/hotel tickets, was still cheaper than buying the ring straight up in California.
- dirtnugget 6y agoIs the author sure that he wouldn’t be subject to taxes when re-entering with something bought elsewhere? Pretty sure that this is the case for at least some cases.
- rootsudo 6y agoThis is simply called arbitrage.
- S53Vflnr4n 6y agoApple still has the audacity to not open a single store in India.
- hannofcart 6y agoWhile I can squint and say that iPhones are probably a luxury item, and hence worthy of higher taxes, these exorbitant taxes extend to laptops as well. I'm again not talking about Macbooks, just a cheap ASUS I might need for work or study. This I think is indeed counterproductive, considering that bulk of India's GDP comes from the services industry. Enabling the populace to acquire computing resources cheaply will help if the powers that be want to establish a knowledge economy.
- ericol 6y agoDude. Hold my beer. In Argentina, pre pandemic there were people that actually went shopping to Miami, because getting anything Apple - be it an iPhone or a laptop - was cheaper that way. The iPhone 12 is not for sale here, but let's use the iPhone 11 as an example. In the only "official" store I could find it [0], the price is 184.299 pesos (yes, 184 thousand). If you check the "official" US dolar rate [1] it is around 80 pesos. But hear me out: The country has so little reserves, that officially buying dollars is limited to 200 dollars per person per month. If you buy something using your credit card outside of the country - be it online or in person - this limit does not apply, but in both cases you have "extra" taxes to pay (Buying or spending dollars is called "dolar turista"). the final rate for this is around 137 pesos (again, [1]) Let's use 140 as the CC rate, for rounding. Considering the same iPhone 11 is around 630 dollars in Amazon, the price in "dolar turista" is 88.060 pesos. that still leave us around one hundred thousand pesos left to the current street price of the phone. considering I can currently get tickets to Los Angeles [2] for around 60K pesos, that more or less gives me ample room for having a short US holiday when getting the phone (Supposing I can get the VISA to enter the country ;) ). BTW the reason for this phone to be so expensive is that there's a black market rate for the US dollar (Called the "blue" dollar) and it's rate is currently around 180 pesos. Using this rate, plus the normal taxes and stuff when importing things, we get close to the street price. [0] https://tienda.personal.com.ar/iphone https://tienda.personal.com.ar/iphone [1] https://www.ambito.com/ https://www.ambito.com/ [2] https://promociones-aereas.com.ar/2020/10/los-angeles-flexible-y-con-equipaje-desde-buenos-aires-con-american-airlines-rt-p.html?utm_source=Perfit&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=%2F2020%2F10%2Flos-angeles-flexible-y-con-equipaje-desde-buenos-aires-con-american-airlines-rt-p.html https://promociones-aereas.com.ar/2020/10/los-angeles-flexib...
- Mediterraneo10 6y agoI have often heard the anecdote of Argentinians flying to North America for shopping. But why is Chile not used for these purposes? Chile doesn’t have the import-substitution policies of Argentina, and in my visits to Chile I didn't feel that the country was not significantly more expensive than the USA.
- 6y ago
- dasloop 6y agoSome people will be amazed by taxes, I'm by how cheap flights are.
- rockyj 6y agoA lot of people in here are saying - oh I had to do this is Germany or Denmark or USA as well. Which is fair, but what irks me is that in India which has pretty high taxation in all departments (see Petrol/Gasoline) the tax you pay gives you ZERO benefit. No healthcare, education or unemployment benefits etc. Also on top of this, due to the corrupt system, if you need anything from any govt. agency you will need to pay a bribe anyways (e.g. registering an apartment, even getting a passport). TBH, I am a big fan of taxes, I am happy to pay even 50-60% in taxes if that means my fellow human is not left hungry or without healthcare or without a roof on their head. In India this is not the case, high taxes, with no benefits to anyone (except the government and their friends).
- instagraham 6y ago> No healthcare, education or unemployment benefits India has a massive welfare state. Just because it doesn't benefit iPhone 12 buyers doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Is the welfare state 100% effective? No. But it's disingenuous to say welfare doesn't play a role for millions of families.
- hangonhn 6y agoI wonder if the GP is complaining about the delivery of said welfare because at least on paper that welfare should be happening. Yet GP believes there are nearly zero benefits. Therefore, I wonder if there is a "disconnect" between what is suppose to happen and what actually happens on the ground.
- wobbly_bush 6y agoThis is exactly it. On paper the government schemes are all well thought out and cover a large percentage of problems. The issue isn't in coming up with schemes, it's the implementation which is extremely lacking. So most of the money that is supposed to go into these schemes, end up being illegally pocketed by those in power. This is in addition to "paying a bribe" which most anecdotes talk about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India
- kkm 6y agoThe price difference are huge, even when you compare from Germany, however, it’s important to note that iMessage and FaceTime are most likely disabled on iPhones bought from UAE. At least that was the case back in the time. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/943iql/i_think_the_uae_just_unblocked_facetime/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/943iql/i_think_the_u...
- bryan0 6y agoI don't know how I never knew this before, but I was confused with the number "1,19,000" in the article and found this explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_numbering_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_numbering_system Basically commas only separate 2 digits after the first group of three. TIL
- abalaji 6y agoYep! That's why you might hear of Lakhs or Crores in Indian forex contexts. 1 Lakh: 10,00,000 1 Crore: 10,00,00,000
- hangonhn 6y agoIs there a reason for that other than just tradition/history? Sometimes when things differ from our norms, there may be a reason or an advantage that we are unaware of. Just curious. Thanks in advance!
- anthropodie 6y agoRecently even YouTube switched to this numbering system. For some reason I prefer old one for view count but I cannot see myself counting money in millions/billions anytime soon.
- muststopmyths 6y ago>Is there a reason for that other than just tradition/history? Probably not. Just like the Japanese number system (as distinct from counters for objects) where 1000/10000 are special units. Even in English, the counting was not consistent. Isn't billion supposed to be 1 million million in the UK ? Lots of the urban population in India is adopting US millions and billions in everyday language too, so I'm sure the global American monoculture will eventually overwhelm the local counters at some point.
- lotsofpulp 6y agoI don’t know anyone in England that means million million when they say billion, especially people working in finance or tech. I wonder if there even are any places that still use billion = million million. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion > American English adopted the short scale definition from the French.[3] The United Kingdom used the long scale billion until 1974, when the government officially switched to the short scale, but since the 1950s the short scale had already been increasingly used in technical writing and journalism; the long scale definition still enjoys some limited usage in the UK.[4]
- diebeforei485 6y agoAcross the board, companies seem to be willing to accept lower margins in the US (perhaps it doesn't matter as much because of scale and competition). And on the other hand, other countries tend to have higher corporate taxes and higher cost of doing business, and that gets passed on to customers in the form of higher prices. Note that the UAE restricts most VoIP, so devices purchased in Dubai will not have FaceTime.
- m3kw9 6y agoTime spent to that person to go there if you can afford a 12 would be worth more than saved.
- ryzvonusef 6y agoIn Pakistan, to prevent this, you either can only buy a cellphone whose IMEI was registered with our regulatory authority (when it was imported via official means), or you can register a personally imported phone with absurdly excessive taxes, which makes the whole point moot. https://dirbs.pta.gov.pk/ https://dirbs.pta.gov.pk/ (btw you can only buy a SIM that's linked to our national identity card, so the sim will just not work. There is a six months grace period for foreign visitors) This means that device options are very limited and prices are absurd. You can buy a small car for the price of an iPhone, for example. We easily pay atleast 20%-50% premium on the same device from india, despite having similar economics.
- soapdog 6y agoMany decades ago, macintosh prices were so high in Brazil that it was cheaper for me to fly to Miami for a weekend, (regretfully) watch the phantom menace, cheerfully watch the mummy, buy the damn mac, fly back, and pay duties at the airport, than it was to buy it in the country.
- jakub_g 6y agoSemi-related story: I flew to Uzbekistan through Dubai last year for vacation. Waiting for my backpack, I saw something that blew my mind: locals who arrived with me taking all kinds of TVs, ovens etc. from the conveyor belts. It never occurred to me that you can fly somewhere, buy big stuff and have them checked in as your baggage. It's not something I ever saw in Europe's airports. (Not sure if reason was more the price, or lack of availability of goods; probably a mix of the two.)
- AnimalMuppet 6y agoPeople used to fly to Miami from various places in Latin America and come back with more suitcases than they left with. It was the same kind of deal.
- classified 6y agoA laptop that can make phone calls starts to be cheaper than an actual phone. I wonder whether anyone is recording that particular moment in history.
- juusto 6y agoI am on the process of selecting a tablet as my personal "phone" leaving my corporate at home when doing private things. I am also open for a laptop, which one do you recommend? Has to be small enough to go everywhere with. (no more than 1.5k €/$)
- teatree 6y agoI understand taxing an optional luxury item like iPhone to encourage local manufacturing, with all the cheap phones available it won't affect the common man too much. But the government here is bent on taxing everything as much as possible. Eg: The Prime Minister keeps harping about "Digital India" but computer components and laptops have an import duty of 80-100%. Does he have the money to build a fab in India ? Hell no, but tax processors at 80%. Talks about "Artiphisial Intelligence" in his speech and annual budget, but taxes GPUs at 80-100%. The rich and middle class have workarounds for these duties by asking friends and family to bring them things from US, but its the poor who's children suffer the most. Poverty is not a problem in India, its a design feature, keep people poor and stupid, loot them all you want. Most people who have the resources or skill to leave India are doing it anyway. Policies like these will only serve to expedite it. This country will likely be next Venezuela. PS: This is not a political statement against the present government, every political party here has done and will continue with this stupidity.
- teachrdan 6y ago> its the poor who's children suffer the most Honest question: How do the poor (and their children) "suffer the most" from taxes on GPUs and iPhones?
- teatree 6y agoGovt and low cost schools have outdated or sometimes no computers at all. Internet is the best means of learning today, they are deprived of it. Heck even top universities don't have good infrastructure in India. Our maid's daughter wants to take up CS after high school, she saw us working on laptops from a young age I guess, but her mother cannot afford to pay for college fees + a laptop + broadband. India's silicon valley, Bangalore, cannot provide its residents uninterrupted power 24x7 in 2020, villages are lucky to get 5 hours of power a day. Can you believe large tech parks in Bangalore run on Diesel generators ? There are hardly a few datacenters and associated jobs in India, reason - hardware and bandwidth is prohibitively expensive, cause - taxation. Think of all the small jobs that would be created in the surrounding ecosystem (foodcarts, cafes) When the govt only talks and doesn't walk the walk, most high skilled Indians leave country due to lack of opportunities, not only would their spending create jobs more importantly it drains the country of mentors for the young. China is going head to head with the US in AI and world class software products, despite their handicap in English, where is India ?
- wtmt 6y agoThe author has made this too simplistic and avoided the point about customs duty on imported goods brought in person. The duty free limit for returning Indian citizens for travels longer than three days is INR 50K (about USD 676). Anything excess of that amount will be taxed (edit: import duty applied) on entry at around 35% (IIRC). People may avoid declaring items or may bribe customs officials to get away with this, but the numbers put forth by the author are incorrect. See https://www.cbic.gov.in/resources/htdocs-cbec/guide_for_travellers/guide-to-travellers.pdf https://www.cbic.gov.in/resources/htdocs-cbec/guide_for_trav...
- franciscop 6y agoConsumer taxes are supposed to be applied only once, so if you are going to go the legal route and pay them on arrival, in many (all?) countries you can also claim the tax money back when leaving the original country with the ticket at the airport.
- wtmt 6y agoI'm not talking about the taxes paid in Dubai, in this instance. Whether one can claim it in Dubai or not depends on Dubai's laws. I've seen countries with VAT or GST have this provision for tourists. On the other hand, countries like the U.S. don't have such provisions. I'm talking about import duties payable in India for goods above a certain value, even if they're brought in person by someone who has traveled abroad.
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- aranelsurion 6y agoThis one hits me close to home, it was the same way back then in Turkey. To describe how bad it is: Recently a popular politican tweeted Playstation 5 costs 8299₺ in Turkey, which is more expensive than booking a flight to Bulgaria, having a modest stay and buying Playstation there. This is a country where minimum wage is 2300₺ ($290) and around half the country is being paid that amount. iPhone 12 Pro? Base model rumored to be $1900. Oh, and cars cost around 4 times more expensive, so a second hand 2007 Ford Fiesta costs around 15 times the minimum wage. But hey, voters were happy and they've been happily voting for the same guy for 20 years. There must be some 'folk wisdom' there but I certainly missed what it is.
- Marciplan 6y agoFrom what I can see online the Turkish and USD prices are quite similar?
- aranelsurion 6y agoI'm sorry, which one do you mean? If iPhone: iPhone 12 Pro 128GB (base) model is $999 in USA, rumored to be 15000₺ ($1900) in Turkey. iPhone 11 Pro 64GB doesn't seem to be offered in USA anymore (by Apple or Amazon), it's $1410 in Turkey. iPhone 11 64GB is $599 in USA, $929 in Turkey. Turkish prices gathered from Hepsiburada.com, one of the largest retailers in Turkey. All in all it seems like there's 1.5x to 2x price difference depending on the model. Trivia: There's also a government-enforced IMEI blocking scheme there, to prevent people from evading the taxes by buying it somewhere else.
- known 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index
- known 6y ago85% people are Poor in India https://archive.is/jz9dH https://archive.is/jz9dH
- naruvimama 6y agoA Chinese friend of mine buys luxury goods "Made in China" in Denmark even with the 25% VAT when there is a discount. Contrary to common belief things are pretty expensive in China, even i they are made in China.