5 ms·

Oh wow! This probably explains why every now and then when I wake my MacBook Pro from sleep it says no keyboard is connected! I thought I had some hardware prob

Oh wow! This probably explains why every now and then when I wake my MacBook Pro from sleep it says no keyboard is connected! I thought I had some hardware problem on a basically brand new machine. Glad to hear it's only a stupid software problem!

dmd 6y ago
If you're using Cisco Anyconnect, blame that for that particular keyboard issue.
- dylan604 6y ago
  Why not blame the idiotic decision to make this network check just to wake up?
  - eptcyka 6y ago
    I think the threat model here is that someone might've swapped out your keyboard to one that's spying on you, whilst you're out at a conference enjoying the more social aspects of such gatherings. At the same time, if you were to not be connected to a network, this kind of verification wouldn't do anything.
    - junon 6y ago
      I don't believe this is ever the case. What happens if you legitimately installed a new keyboard? Will Apple just... prevent you from using it?
      - dylan604 6y ago
        I have a 2017 MBP. There are several keycaps that that are no longer physically connected to the key, so if I tilt the laptop 4 or 5 keys fall off. I have been dealing with it by using an external Apple keyboard (with added benefit of having 10-key and full sized arrow keys). Since it's on a desktop in this config, I have it set to never sleep so luckily I have not seen this unwakeable fuck up.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        hombre_fatal 6y ago
        Apple has a three year warranty which means yours may have run out or is about to run out. If you still have time, get your keyboard replaced for free: https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-n... (it also means they have to replace your mobo and battery due to brilliant Apple engineering). It doesn't fix the problem, but it resets the clock until they fall off again. In Texas, it was <48 hours between dropping my Macbook off at the Apple shop and receiving it on my doorstep.
        dylan604 6y ago
        The big question is will they extend the warranty by the number of months the Apple Stores were closed due to pandemic lock down? My keycaps didn't start misbehaving until about April.
        wtf_srsly 6y ago
        48 hours is pretty optimistic. At least for the 2016 model they can't just change the keycaps but they'll have to change the whole bottom case. This took a few weeks for me since I had to send it to a certified repair center.
        hombre_fatal 6y ago
        That's the same for the 2017 model that I had to fix. I got a new mobo + battery. Convenient because my battery was in dire need to servicing. I heard it would take weeks and even had a backup laptop ready, so it surprised me when it came <2 days later. It was my original laptop too (had all my data and the same dent). Oh well, the new models don't have this issue anymore. What a fuck up.
        dylan604 6y ago
        I just followed your link, and had an interesting experience. Of all of the Apple Stores and Authorized Repair they do not appear to be accepting repairs. Everyone of them tell me: "This location has no available reservations. You can check another location now, or check this location again tomorrow." Can't even get far enough to see if the repair would be covered. Good job Apple
      - gowld 6y ago
        Before 2019 if you use the factory standard keyboard Apple will just prevent you from using it (butterfly).
    - mulmen 6y ago
      Huh? When I’m out socializing there’s no spying to do. But as soon as I get back I will just log in and the spying begins. I’m so accustomed to flaky peripherals with Apple products I wouldn’t even be alarmed at the behavior.
      - johnmaguire2013 6y ago
        I think you misunderstand. The idea is that if your keyboard is replaced with a keyboard that has modified (hacked) firmware, your computer will refuse to let you use it. To do this, it must obtain a cryptographic attestation from the keyboard firmware, proving that it has not been modified. Further, to avoid replay attacks it must include the current time in the message it signs. NTP is used by macOS to determine the current time, so as to verify the signature provided by the keyboard. So, if NTP is slow to respond or time out, you are stuck waiting for your Mac to verify your keyboard's signature.
        mulmen 6y ago
        I was thinking of an external keyboard. That might be the cause of confusion.
        GekkePrutser 6y ago
        So they introduce a major usability breaker (consider opening up your macbook on a plane with no internet access) to prevent a really obscure security issue that requires an attacker to replace the entire system's top case without you noticing. Nice. At least give the user the ability to turn that off.
        userbinator 6y ago
        If I was an attacker I would simply hook into the key matrix. The extra obfuscation in firmware is just user-hostile and stupid.
        likeclockwork 6y ago
        What happens if you have networking turned off or your WiFi isn't configured for the local network?
- unethical_ban 6y ago
  It's any VPN software that is always-on.
- ClearAndPresent 6y ago
  Or Wireguard. The absurdity of sitting in front of a frozen keyboard and trackpad for up to a minute before I can unlock the screensaver on a 2k machine has driven me spare. And now has driven away from these astounding lemons. This is the last Apple laptop for me.
- wincy 6y ago
  Ugh, Cisco AnyConnect, had my MDM policy erroneously install the 32-bit version of it and removing it required finding a shell script in /opt/cisco and running to deregister it before I could install the updated version. So much fun!
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ryukafalz 6y ago
  Happens with the built-in, first-party VPN client as well. Definitely not just a Cisco issue.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  So I'm not the only one?! Holy I thought I was going crazy, dropping out of the VPN meant a ten second freeze until a couple of weeks ago. Do you have any additional sources?
- apple4ever 6y ago
  Oh my gosh this explains so much. I blame Apple though for their terrible software.
cbowns 6y ago
omgggg it's not just me?! I thought it was bad hardware. this is both good and bad news; at least I can sort out a way to mitigate this now.

dmd 6y ago

If you're using Cisco Anyconnect, blame that for that particular keyboard issue.

dylan604 6y ago
Why not blame the idiotic decision to make this network check just to wake up?
- eptcyka 6y ago
  I think the threat model here is that someone might've swapped out your keyboard to one that's spying on you, whilst you're out at a conference enjoying the more social aspects of such gatherings. At the same time, if you were to not be connected to a network, this kind of verification wouldn't do anything.
  - junon 6y ago
    I don't believe this is ever the case. What happens if you legitimately installed a new keyboard? Will Apple just... prevent you from using it?
    - dylan604 6y ago
      I have a 2017 MBP. There are several keycaps that that are no longer physically connected to the key, so if I tilt the laptop 4 or 5 keys fall off. I have been dealing with it by using an external Apple keyboard (with added benefit of having 10-key and full sized arrow keys). Since it's on a desktop in this config, I have it set to never sleep so luckily I have not seen this unwakeable fuck up.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - hombre_fatal 6y ago
        Apple has a three year warranty which means yours may have run out or is about to run out. If you still have time, get your keyboard replaced for free: https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-n... (it also means they have to replace your mobo and battery due to brilliant Apple engineering). It doesn't fix the problem, but it resets the clock until they fall off again. In Texas, it was <48 hours between dropping my Macbook off at the Apple shop and receiving it on my doorstep.
        dylan604 6y ago
        The big question is will they extend the warranty by the number of months the Apple Stores were closed due to pandemic lock down? My keycaps didn't start misbehaving until about April.
        wtf_srsly 6y ago
        48 hours is pretty optimistic. At least for the 2016 model they can't just change the keycaps but they'll have to change the whole bottom case. This took a few weeks for me since I had to send it to a certified repair center.
        hombre_fatal 6y ago
        That's the same for the 2017 model that I had to fix. I got a new mobo + battery. Convenient because my battery was in dire need to servicing. I heard it would take weeks and even had a backup laptop ready, so it surprised me when it came <2 days later. It was my original laptop too (had all my data and the same dent). Oh well, the new models don't have this issue anymore. What a fuck up.
        dylan604 6y ago
        I just followed your link, and had an interesting experience. Of all of the Apple Stores and Authorized Repair they do not appear to be accepting repairs. Everyone of them tell me: "This location has no available reservations. You can check another location now, or check this location again tomorrow." Can't even get far enough to see if the repair would be covered. Good job Apple
    - gowld 6y ago
      Before 2019 if you use the factory standard keyboard Apple will just prevent you from using it (butterfly).
  - mulmen 6y ago
    Huh? When I’m out socializing there’s no spying to do. But as soon as I get back I will just log in and the spying begins. I’m so accustomed to flaky peripherals with Apple products I wouldn’t even be alarmed at the behavior.
    - johnmaguire2013 6y ago
      I think you misunderstand. The idea is that if your keyboard is replaced with a keyboard that has modified (hacked) firmware, your computer will refuse to let you use it. To do this, it must obtain a cryptographic attestation from the keyboard firmware, proving that it has not been modified. Further, to avoid replay attacks it must include the current time in the message it signs. NTP is used by macOS to determine the current time, so as to verify the signature provided by the keyboard. So, if NTP is slow to respond or time out, you are stuck waiting for your Mac to verify your keyboard's signature.
      - mulmen 6y ago
        I was thinking of an external keyboard. That might be the cause of confusion.
      - GekkePrutser 6y ago
        So they introduce a major usability breaker (consider opening up your macbook on a plane with no internet access) to prevent a really obscure security issue that requires an attacker to replace the entire system's top case without you noticing. Nice. At least give the user the ability to turn that off.
      - userbinator 6y ago
        If I was an attacker I would simply hook into the key matrix. The extra obfuscation in firmware is just user-hostile and stupid.
      - likeclockwork 6y ago
        What happens if you have networking turned off or your WiFi isn't configured for the local network?
unethical_ban 6y ago
It's any VPN software that is always-on.
ClearAndPresent 6y ago
Or Wireguard. The absurdity of sitting in front of a frozen keyboard and trackpad for up to a minute before I can unlock the screensaver on a 2k machine has driven me spare. And now has driven away from these astounding lemons. This is the last Apple laptop for me.
wincy 6y ago
Ugh, Cisco AnyConnect, had my MDM policy erroneously install the 32-bit version of it and removing it required finding a shell script in /opt/cisco and running to deregister it before I could install the updated version. So much fun!
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ryukafalz 6y ago
Happens with the built-in, first-party VPN client as well. Definitely not just a Cisco issue.
mschuster91 6y ago
So I'm not the only one?! Holy I thought I was going crazy, dropping out of the VPN meant a ten second freeze until a couple of weeks ago. Do you have any additional sources?
apple4ever 6y ago
Oh my gosh this explains so much. I blame Apple though for their terrible software.

cbowns 6y ago

omgggg it's not just me?! I thought it was bad hardware. this is both good and bad news; at least I can sort out a way to mitigate this now.