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I guess that is how I know I am getting old? I have never even heard of anyone thinking a sentence ending in a period is anything but normal. And I actually det

I guess that is how I know I am getting old? I have never even heard of anyone thinking a sentence ending in a period is anything but normal. And I actually detest the use of exclamation points. They are almost always unnecessary. And I probably read too much into them, as opposed to others doing the same on periods. It is interesting though. Looking back at chat history. If I am not writing multiple sentences, and even sometimes when I am, I tend to leave off the last period. I think emoji reactions to messages, especially in off topic channels, are totally reasonable. And certain ones (+1, -1, 100, etc.) are OK for technical discussions. But don't feel people should be adding faces into the actual content of on topic work messages. But, the actual context in those conversations should be clear, and make them unnecessary. One thing that actually drives me nuts is when people will keep their messages short. Write 5-10 words of a thought out, hit enter, and keep on going. You end up getting 7 notifications in quick succession, and none of it is complete. Please, just write out your entire though out as one singular cohesive message.

tashoecraft 6y ago
When you're writing small, short sentences, there is something off putting about periods. It's just part of the how text based communication has become. Emojis are good because words can be interpreted with a tone that was unintended, and can lead to all sorts of communication problems. It's small and simple, but an appropriate emoji helps convey our emotions in a way that is more difficult to in short, text based messages. I agree about rapid short messages, I hate receiving 8 notifications about 1 short paragraph of text.
- Bedon292 6y ago
  I always attempt to write, even on Slack or other chat programs, in such a way that no unintended tone comes across. To me it feels like I have failed in communicating if an emoji is necessary to convey a message. I honestly cannot think of anywhere I could use them to make a message clearer. But, I will be asking a few folks if there is an issue with my communication, and if I can be more clear in any way. Including the use of emoji. To me, it also feels less professional, but this thread has opened my eyes to this bias I have. So I am going to attempt to make less of a judgement on this moving forward.
  - jay_kyburz 6y ago
    I agree, I think the only appropriate time for an emoji is to acknowledge somebodies else's message but you don't have anything you want to say. A thumbs up or a celebrate.
    - stu2b50 6y ago
      I disagree, I think there's many times where a statement can clearly seem hostile, or jovial, at the same time, and adding some emojis to lean towards jovial will make it a 100% safe message. Sure, you can add context in other ways, but it's quick, easy, and effective. Is it unprofessional? Perhaps in an email, but I don't consider every slack message something that should be "professional" in tone. You don't speak professionally to every person IRL (or, at least I hope you don't).
      - Twisol 6y ago
        I have a small group of emoji that I turn to for this kind of color. :sweat_smile: for a note of self-aware awkwardness. :thinking: when I'm posing an idea without standing behind it too hard, or when my thoughts are continuing beyond the message I've just sent. A few others are not uncommon, but more situational. (I'm using their Slack codes here, since I'm not sure I can just embed them directly in an HN comment...) I tend to come across in text as very detail-oriented and precise, so some careful emoji usage helps recover some of the consideration that would normally be carried by tone or body language.
        adjkant 6y ago
        This type of use is exactly what I was talking about in my original post. It does wonders for positive communication. Even if some don't see the need for it, as the article discusses, you need to consider your full audience!
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- Jedd 6y ago
  > When you're writing small, short sentences, there is something off putting about periods. Well, that may be the case for some people, but I am not convinced it's the general case. Also, how do you write (delineate, identify, etc) small, short sentences without periods? I'm assuming people in a hurry - that don't have time for punctuation - do have time for tautological constructs? (small, short) ; )
  - neodymiumphish 6y ago
    I see it done that way a lot where each small sentence is its own message. Even more annoyingly, they often do it in a main channel on Slack after the message they're responding to, instead of "replying in thread".
    - mjayhn 6y ago
      Purely anecdotal but I think it’s from irc/aim users (a lot of millennials/genx including myself) since long form communication wasn’t really a thing on there. I see some people write paragraphs as messages on discord servers and iirc that wasn’t technically even possible on irc and I feel like it’s even strange to see in the middle of lighter chatter. Also slack threads are awful, imo. I can appreciate them in certain contexts like asking what tool everyone likes or where to grab dinner, but if your slack has become a place where complicated tech answers wind up in threads it makes searching so frustrating just due to the UX. Also they’re limited, or were, on features (code blocks never looked right, etc). I HATED when outages wound up in a slack thread and not a room which was too frequent at my last employer. That #tagging/#threading feature available on the other slack/discord/teams competitor I can’t think of right now is something I really want. I have to pay attention to not treating slack like irc quite a bit.
      - Twisol 6y ago
        > That #tagging/#threading feature available on the other slack/discord/teams competitor I can’t think of right now is something I really want. Zulip, by any chance?
pmiller2 6y ago
Hah! Well, I'm so old, I remember having two spaces after every period. And, I, too, hate waking up to 12 notifications, of which 3-4 are usually pings to my team alias, and then seeing a bunch of DM notifications. It makes me feel like I missed something urgent, when, often, it's just people who hate putting periods after the end of their thoughts. Maddening!
- ghaff 6y ago
  To be honest, I have almost all mobile device notifications turned off. Though I realize some people are in groups that have more of an expectation of immediate response.
  - mvp 6y ago
    Exactly.. I was wondering the same. What notifications are these people talking about. First thing I do on my phone is to turn off all notifications.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      I don't turn all off. But it's a pretty high bar and those I have notification on for are pretty low volume that I typically do want to respond to or be aware of in a timely manner.
- Arelius 6y ago
  Fun aside, on most mobile platforms, hitting the space key twice will generally enter a period followed by a space.
  - extra88 6y ago
    iOS keyboard does that regardless of where you type.
cuddlybacon 6y ago
Tom Scott has a nice intro video about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS4X1JfX6_Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS4X1JfX6_Q The book he mentions, Because Internet, goes into more detail. But to over-simplify, there were a few major generations of people joining the internet as well as a generation that never fully joined, and each one developed its own conventions for casual writing on their own. Some used the same mechanism to mean different things.
bavila 6y ago
> One thing that actually drives me nuts is when people will keep their messages short. Write 5-10 words of a thought out, hit enter, and keep on going. You end up getting 7 notifications in quick succession, and none of it is complete. Please, just write out your entire though out as one singular cohesive message. This sort of typing really drives me up the wall, too. I submitted a feature request to Slack about a year ago asking that implement some sort of throttle on notifications (they acknowledged my request, but took no action on it). Basically, for example, I would want to set a throttle to be notified every minute of all messages that were received in the past 60 seconds. So if 4 messages were received in that timeframe, I would only be pinged once instead of 4 times.
Aeolun 6y ago
> But don't feel people should be adding faces into the actual content of on topic work messages Not in the content. But after the content of the whole message to indicate tone? I do that pretty much all the time, as there are generally multiple ways a message can be interpreted. We can’t do facial expressions on chat, and we don’t have the length of content that comes with email (at least, I’d rather use one emoji than 50 extra words).
jakelazaroff 6y ago
I feel that negative emotion from periods on the last sentence (especially for messages that are only one sentence). So if you’re wondering what age range feels that way, you can consider 30 years old your upper bound :) I disagree about receiving multiple messages in a row. To me, composing longer messages (especially with multiple paragraphs) feels much more formal; it’s like writing an email or a letter rather than having a conversation. I do sometimes write like that, but only on the rare occasion that I need to be particularly formal.
- thomasahle 6y ago
  > it’s like writing an email or a letter rather than having a conversation. I don't like having a conversation over text. It feels inefficient, and I have to be on my phone more than I want to. I prefer the "couple of paragraphs" format of HN, where you think through your message, and maybe edit a bit, before you send. I'm also 30 ;-)
crehn 6y ago
My attempt at explaining why periods at the end feel uncomfortably stiff in a Slack-like environment: Social conversations are fluid and open-ended, with participants organically shifting between listening and speaking. A period however conveys finality, which is off-putting in such a human setting. For example, “No.” sounds like the very stern “No” of someone who’s not willing to listen or discuss any further.

tashoecraft 6y ago

When you're writing small, short sentences, there is something off putting about periods. It's just part of the how text based communication has become. Emojis are good because words can be interpreted with a tone that was unintended, and can lead to all sorts of communication problems. It's small and simple, but an appropriate emoji helps convey our emotions in a way that is more difficult to in short, text based messages. I agree about rapid short messages, I hate receiving 8 notifications about 1 short paragraph of text.

Bedon292 6y ago
I always attempt to write, even on Slack or other chat programs, in such a way that no unintended tone comes across. To me it feels like I have failed in communicating if an emoji is necessary to convey a message. I honestly cannot think of anywhere I could use them to make a message clearer. But, I will be asking a few folks if there is an issue with my communication, and if I can be more clear in any way. Including the use of emoji. To me, it also feels less professional, but this thread has opened my eyes to this bias I have. So I am going to attempt to make less of a judgement on this moving forward.
- jay_kyburz 6y ago
  I agree, I think the only appropriate time for an emoji is to acknowledge somebodies else's message but you don't have anything you want to say. A thumbs up or a celebrate.
  - stu2b50 6y ago
    I disagree, I think there's many times where a statement can clearly seem hostile, or jovial, at the same time, and adding some emojis to lean towards jovial will make it a 100% safe message. Sure, you can add context in other ways, but it's quick, easy, and effective. Is it unprofessional? Perhaps in an email, but I don't consider every slack message something that should be "professional" in tone. You don't speak professionally to every person IRL (or, at least I hope you don't).
    - Twisol 6y ago
      I have a small group of emoji that I turn to for this kind of color. :sweat_smile: for a note of self-aware awkwardness. :thinking: when I'm posing an idea without standing behind it too hard, or when my thoughts are continuing beyond the message I've just sent. A few others are not uncommon, but more situational. (I'm using their Slack codes here, since I'm not sure I can just embed them directly in an HN comment...) I tend to come across in text as very detail-oriented and precise, so some careful emoji usage helps recover some of the consideration that would normally be carried by tone or body language.
      - adjkant 6y ago
        This type of use is exactly what I was talking about in my original post. It does wonders for positive communication. Even if some don't see the need for it, as the article discusses, you need to consider your full audience!
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
Jedd 6y ago
> When you're writing small, short sentences, there is something off putting about periods. Well, that may be the case for some people, but I am not convinced it's the general case. Also, how do you write (delineate, identify, etc) small, short sentences without periods? I'm assuming people in a hurry - that don't have time for punctuation - do have time for tautological constructs? (small, short) ; )
- neodymiumphish 6y ago
  I see it done that way a lot where each small sentence is its own message. Even more annoyingly, they often do it in a main channel on Slack after the message they're responding to, instead of "replying in thread".
  - mjayhn 6y ago
    Purely anecdotal but I think it’s from irc/aim users (a lot of millennials/genx including myself) since long form communication wasn’t really a thing on there. I see some people write paragraphs as messages on discord servers and iirc that wasn’t technically even possible on irc and I feel like it’s even strange to see in the middle of lighter chatter. Also slack threads are awful, imo. I can appreciate them in certain contexts like asking what tool everyone likes or where to grab dinner, but if your slack has become a place where complicated tech answers wind up in threads it makes searching so frustrating just due to the UX. Also they’re limited, or were, on features (code blocks never looked right, etc). I HATED when outages wound up in a slack thread and not a room which was too frequent at my last employer. That #tagging/#threading feature available on the other slack/discord/teams competitor I can’t think of right now is something I really want. I have to pay attention to not treating slack like irc quite a bit.
    - Twisol 6y ago
      > That #tagging/#threading feature available on the other slack/discord/teams competitor I can’t think of right now is something I really want. Zulip, by any chance?

pmiller2 6y ago

Hah! Well, I'm so old, I remember having two spaces after every period. And, I, too, hate waking up to 12 notifications, of which 3-4 are usually pings to my team alias, and then seeing a bunch of DM notifications. It makes me feel like I missed something urgent, when, often, it's just people who hate putting periods after the end of their thoughts. Maddening!

ghaff 6y ago
To be honest, I have almost all mobile device notifications turned off. Though I realize some people are in groups that have more of an expectation of immediate response.
- mvp 6y ago
  Exactly.. I was wondering the same. What notifications are these people talking about. First thing I do on my phone is to turn off all notifications.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    I don't turn all off. But it's a pretty high bar and those I have notification on for are pretty low volume that I typically do want to respond to or be aware of in a timely manner.
Arelius 6y ago
Fun aside, on most mobile platforms, hitting the space key twice will generally enter a period followed by a space.
- extra88 6y ago
  iOS keyboard does that regardless of where you type.

cuddlybacon 6y ago

Tom Scott has a nice intro video about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS4X1JfX6_Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS4X1JfX6_Q The book he mentions, Because Internet, goes into more detail. But to over-simplify, there were a few major generations of people joining the internet as well as a generation that never fully joined, and each one developed its own conventions for casual writing on their own. Some used the same mechanism to mean different things.

bavila 6y ago

> One thing that actually drives me nuts is when people will keep their messages short. Write 5-10 words of a thought out, hit enter, and keep on going. You end up getting 7 notifications in quick succession, and none of it is complete. Please, just write out your entire though out as one singular cohesive message. This sort of typing really drives me up the wall, too. I submitted a feature request to Slack about a year ago asking that implement some sort of throttle on notifications (they acknowledged my request, but took no action on it). Basically, for example, I would want to set a throttle to be notified every minute of all messages that were received in the past 60 seconds. So if 4 messages were received in that timeframe, I would only be pinged once instead of 4 times.

Aeolun 6y ago

> But don't feel people should be adding faces into the actual content of on topic work messages Not in the content. But after the content of the whole message to indicate tone? I do that pretty much all the time, as there are generally multiple ways a message can be interpreted. We can’t do facial expressions on chat, and we don’t have the length of content that comes with email (at least, I’d rather use one emoji than 50 extra words).

jakelazaroff 6y ago

I feel that negative emotion from periods on the last sentence (especially for messages that are only one sentence). So if you’re wondering what age range feels that way, you can consider 30 years old your upper bound :) I disagree about receiving multiple messages in a row. To me, composing longer messages (especially with multiple paragraphs) feels much more formal; it’s like writing an email or a letter rather than having a conversation. I do sometimes write like that, but only on the rare occasion that I need to be particularly formal.

thomasahle 6y ago
> it’s like writing an email or a letter rather than having a conversation. I don't like having a conversation over text. It feels inefficient, and I have to be on my phone more than I want to. I prefer the "couple of paragraphs" format of HN, where you think through your message, and maybe edit a bit, before you send. I'm also 30 ;-)

crehn 6y ago

My attempt at explaining why periods at the end feel uncomfortably stiff in a Slack-like environment: Social conversations are fluid and open-ended, with participants organically shifting between listening and speaking. A period however conveys finality, which is off-putting in such a human setting. For example, “No.” sounds like the very stern “No” of someone who’s not willing to listen or discuss any further.