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> Having saw Epic's developer account terminated by Apple, I would definitely stay away from any "Sign in with Apple". If you don't renege on your agreements w

> Having saw Epic's developer account terminated by Apple, I would definitely stay away from any "Sign in with Apple". If you don't renege on your agreements with Apple as part of a public pissing contest, and you aren't in the business of misleading customers and creating deceptive apps, it's unlikely they'll revoke your developer account.

Qahlel 6y ago
unilateral agreements that one side can change on a whim is not something that one would call a fair agreement in the first place.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  unilateral agreements that one side can change on a whim is not something that one would call a fair agreement in the first place. Wait till you read the fine print in your cell phone contract.
- olliej 6y ago
  Well, both companies do that - The various epic EULAs let them behave just as apple does, so they can't argue it's unfair unless they want all their existing EULAs to be invalidated as well.
- otterley 6y ago
  Do you really think a company the size of Apple is going to separately negotiate terms of service with every developer that wants to publish an app? Contracts of adhesion are just a part of life. We agree to them practically every day whenever we do business with a third party. And if you were in the other party's shoes, you'd do the same thing; otherwise you couldn't practically run a business.
Symbiote 6y ago
But we can still avoid Apple services in support of those Apple doesn't like, open standards and free competition.
yegle 6y ago
There's an explicit list of websites that are not allowed to integrate with "Sign in with Apple". https://developer.apple.com/sign-in-with-apple/usage-guidelines-for-websites-and-other-platforms/ https://developer.apple.com/sign-in-with-apple/usage-guideli... Nothing stops Apple from adding more requirements in the future, even if you don't start a feud with Apple.
- wayneftw 6y ago
  Wow, you can’t even use sign in with Apple if you “Show Apple or its products in a false or derogatory light.” Who decides what’s false or derogatory?
  - floatingatoll 6y ago
    A court of law.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - danShumway 6y ago
      No, there's no world where Apple blocks access to an account because they're showing derogatory content towards Apple products, and a company gets a judge to overturn that block because it's not technically libel. Apple has the right to block you from their sign-in for any reason. Short of pulling a move like Epic and suing them for antitrust, a court of law is never going to enter into the equation. None of these are legal definitions, Apple gets to decide what they mean. And no court of law is going to rule that they don't have the right to block when their TOS end with: > Apple reserves the right to disable Sign in with Apple on a website or app for any reason at any time.
      - otterley 6y ago
        > Apple gets to decide what they mean. (IAAL, this is not legal advice.) That's not how contract law works. There's a whole body of law around how to construe language in contracts, and it's subject to litigation and dispute if the definition isn't made clear in the contract itself. > no court of law is going to rule that they don't have the right to block Then you don't know courts very well. Such clauses are still subject to the law and public policy. For example, no competent court is going to allow anyone to use an escape clause to terminate a contract with someone because of their race, age, or gender. But yeah, if you use someone's services and then publicly talk trash about them? Why should they be forced to continue to do business with you?

Qahlel 6y ago

unilateral agreements that one side can change on a whim is not something that one would call a fair agreement in the first place.

reaperducer 6y ago
unilateral agreements that one side can change on a whim is not something that one would call a fair agreement in the first place. Wait till you read the fine print in your cell phone contract.
olliej 6y ago
Well, both companies do that - The various epic EULAs let them behave just as apple does, so they can't argue it's unfair unless they want all their existing EULAs to be invalidated as well.
otterley 6y ago
Do you really think a company the size of Apple is going to separately negotiate terms of service with every developer that wants to publish an app? Contracts of adhesion are just a part of life. We agree to them practically every day whenever we do business with a third party. And if you were in the other party's shoes, you'd do the same thing; otherwise you couldn't practically run a business.

Symbiote 6y ago

But we can still avoid Apple services in support of those Apple doesn't like, open standards and free competition.

yegle 6y ago

There's an explicit list of websites that are not allowed to integrate with "Sign in with Apple". https://developer.apple.com/sign-in-with-apple/usage-guidelines-for-websites-and-other-platforms/ https://developer.apple.com/sign-in-with-apple/usage-guideli... Nothing stops Apple from adding more requirements in the future, even if you don't start a feud with Apple.

wayneftw 6y ago
Wow, you can’t even use sign in with Apple if you “Show Apple or its products in a false or derogatory light.” Who decides what’s false or derogatory?
- floatingatoll 6y ago
  A court of law.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - danShumway 6y ago
    No, there's no world where Apple blocks access to an account because they're showing derogatory content towards Apple products, and a company gets a judge to overturn that block because it's not technically libel. Apple has the right to block you from their sign-in for any reason. Short of pulling a move like Epic and suing them for antitrust, a court of law is never going to enter into the equation. None of these are legal definitions, Apple gets to decide what they mean. And no court of law is going to rule that they don't have the right to block when their TOS end with: > Apple reserves the right to disable Sign in with Apple on a website or app for any reason at any time.
    - otterley 6y ago
      > Apple gets to decide what they mean. (IAAL, this is not legal advice.) That's not how contract law works. There's a whole body of law around how to construe language in contracts, and it's subject to litigation and dispute if the definition isn't made clear in the contract itself. > no court of law is going to rule that they don't have the right to block Then you don't know courts very well. Such clauses are still subject to the law and public policy. For example, no competent court is going to allow anyone to use an escape clause to terminate a contract with someone because of their race, age, or gender. But yeah, if you use someone's services and then publicly talk trash about them? Why should they be forced to continue to do business with you?