7 ms·

It’s Time for the Eternal September to End

18 points by elsewhen 6y ago

bitxbitxbitcoin 6y ago
I know it doesn't match the song's intent, but this is the sentiment that bubbles whenever I hear "Wake me up when September ends" by Green Day.
- kgwxd 6y ago
  That video is embedded in the article :)
kordlessagain 6y ago
Seriously, stop posting Vice crap. The guy that started it is an asshole[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_McInnes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_McInnes
- dagav 6y ago
  A lot of assholes have started a lot of things
  - Judgmentality 6y ago
    Seriously - most influential people in Silicon Valley are assholes.
    - bitwize 6y ago
      "Asshole" is Hackernews code for "person discredited for nonalignment with political orthodoxy". There are a lot of assholes in the casual sense in SV, but a statement of the form "X is an asshole" on HN means something like "you are morally obligated to disregard or denounce anything X says, does, or establishes, because X holds political opinions I and other fellow decent people find distasteful". The implications about the use of JavaScript, created by known asshole Brendan Eich, are left as an exercise.
- explorigin 6y ago
  > He left Vice in 2008 due to what he described as "creative differences". Seems to me that after 12 years, Vice maybe shouldn't be judged for it's founders vices [pun intended].
- mattbk1 6y ago
  You can read the original version here if you want: https://tedium.co/2020/10/13/eternal-september-modern-impact/ https://tedium.co/2020/10/13/eternal-september-modern-impact...
- acheron 6y ago
  Vice is garbage, but regardless of what you think of McInnes, it has nothing to do with him anymore.
friendlybus 6y ago
The established users on the Usenets were polite and cordial. The newer users brought down the tone. Thankfully nobody remembers that, so vice can use the term to darken our world a little more.
- albroland 6y ago
  I think your observation applies to most online communities. IME the quality of a forum/community seems to be directly tied to the population size following a somewhat skewed normal distribution. A monday morning theory based on my observations: Once you reach a critical mass of users that will sustain discussion, you will see a gradual rise in quality as a small board of passionate users will organically attract likeminded individuals, who typically contribute and elevate the discussion. Everyone is highly motivated to explore, discuss, and challenge ideas with each other and decorum is usually quite polite, as to them there was no other place you could engage so freely with these ideas with likeminded individuals. At a certain point though, you seem to cross a rubicon where the new users are less informed, less motivated/passionate, and don't contribute anything new or novel to the discussion. This is quickly followed by an exodus of the most informed/important voices who aren't interested in dealing with uninformed conjecture, or novice matters that aren't particularly interesting to someone who has more subject matter expertise. This progresses to the end state of the board, where there are very few if any true believers to whatever the original intent of the board was, and the posting reflects that as it moves further and further from the intended subject and more into meta and social. I'd describe this state as similar to the discourse you'd see on twitter today: rude, tribal, uninformed, speculative, etc.
- zwieback 6y ago
  I don't think that's generally true. I was using Usenet during that time, mostly CS groups for C++ and Lisp, and there were many established users that were toxic jerks. They were constantly being called out and nothing changed. I do agree that the general quality of Usenet nosedived around then but it had more to do with the transition to other forums than with the influx of AOL users.
  - Lutzb 6y ago
tech_elitist 6y ago
Why exactly should it end? They already have social network reservations where they're always welcome to spend time in. What's up with this cancerous desire to fill every niche and perverse every subculture? Stay in your lane, normies.
upofadown 6y ago
It wasn't some sort of culture clash. The new people simply did not understand the implications of the medium. As a result they would ask the same questions over and over again without looking at the FAQs. They were suckers for trolls and would waste everyone's time by engaging in manufactured arguments. In time they would learn how things worked but there was a constant stream of new people. We seem to be in such a period globally right now...
mrlonglong 6y ago
I remember when AOL meant Arsehole OnLine ;-D

18 points by elsewhen 6y ago

I know it doesn't match the song's intent, but this is the sentiment that bubbles whenever I hear "Wake me up when September ends" by Green Day.

kgwxd 6y ago
That video is embedded in the article :)

kordlessagain 6y ago

Seriously, stop posting Vice crap. The guy that started it is an asshole[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_McInnes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_McInnes

dagav 6y ago
A lot of assholes have started a lot of things
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  Seriously - most influential people in Silicon Valley are assholes.
  - bitwize 6y ago
    "Asshole" is Hackernews code for "person discredited for nonalignment with political orthodoxy". There are a lot of assholes in the casual sense in SV, but a statement of the form "X is an asshole" on HN means something like "you are morally obligated to disregard or denounce anything X says, does, or establishes, because X holds political opinions I and other fellow decent people find distasteful". The implications about the use of JavaScript, created by known asshole Brendan Eich, are left as an exercise.
explorigin 6y ago
> He left Vice in 2008 due to what he described as "creative differences". Seems to me that after 12 years, Vice maybe shouldn't be judged for it's founders vices [pun intended].
mattbk1 6y ago
You can read the original version here if you want: https://tedium.co/2020/10/13/eternal-september-modern-impact/ https://tedium.co/2020/10/13/eternal-september-modern-impact...
acheron 6y ago
Vice is garbage, but regardless of what you think of McInnes, it has nothing to do with him anymore.

friendlybus 6y ago

The established users on the Usenets were polite and cordial. The newer users brought down the tone. Thankfully nobody remembers that, so vice can use the term to darken our world a little more.

albroland 6y ago
I think your observation applies to most online communities. IME the quality of a forum/community seems to be directly tied to the population size following a somewhat skewed normal distribution. A monday morning theory based on my observations: Once you reach a critical mass of users that will sustain discussion, you will see a gradual rise in quality as a small board of passionate users will organically attract likeminded individuals, who typically contribute and elevate the discussion. Everyone is highly motivated to explore, discuss, and challenge ideas with each other and decorum is usually quite polite, as to them there was no other place you could engage so freely with these ideas with likeminded individuals. At a certain point though, you seem to cross a rubicon where the new users are less informed, less motivated/passionate, and don't contribute anything new or novel to the discussion. This is quickly followed by an exodus of the most informed/important voices who aren't interested in dealing with uninformed conjecture, or novice matters that aren't particularly interesting to someone who has more subject matter expertise. This progresses to the end state of the board, where there are very few if any true believers to whatever the original intent of the board was, and the posting reflects that as it moves further and further from the intended subject and more into meta and social. I'd describe this state as similar to the discourse you'd see on twitter today: rude, tribal, uninformed, speculative, etc.
zwieback 6y ago
I don't think that's generally true. I was using Usenet during that time, mostly CS groups for C++ and Lisp, and there were many established users that were toxic jerks. They were constantly being called out and nothing changed. I do agree that the general quality of Usenet nosedived around then but it had more to do with the transition to other forums than with the influx of AOL users.
- Lutzb 6y ago

tech_elitist 6y ago

Why exactly should it end? They already have social network reservations where they're always welcome to spend time in. What's up with this cancerous desire to fill every niche and perverse every subculture? Stay in your lane, normies.

upofadown 6y ago

It wasn't some sort of culture clash. The new people simply did not understand the implications of the medium. As a result they would ask the same questions over and over again without looking at the FAQs. They were suckers for trolls and would waste everyone's time by engaging in manufactured arguments. In time they would learn how things worked but there was a constant stream of new people. We seem to be in such a period globally right now...

mrlonglong 6y ago

I remember when AOL meant Arsehole OnLine ;-D