5 ms·

It's in the spirit of compliance with Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Any HR dept in the US will have a strict policy on this.

by lean 15y ago

mgkimsal 15y ago
See my point above on phone calls. I understand the 'spirit', but not everyone interprets that 'spirit' the same way, and some companies still have the guts to not ignore people simply because of what's on their resume - photos included. If I see someone lists attendance at an historically black college, or has a traditionally feminine name, I can already deduce their race or gender without a photo, and I can do whatever discriminating I want to do using that information. Company policies that throw out applicants because they've attached included any sort of photo at least as damaging (because of the loss to the company of potential talent) than lawsuits over Title VII violations, but it's much harder to quantify that. It's going to get harder and harder to even guard against this stuff as email clients merge social media information in while reviewing applicants. Oh, unless you just buy and use crappy web-based application software that requires 14 screens that only works in IE6 - then you'll be 100% safe from any chance of getting interested and qualified applicants (and lawsuits too).
- lean 15y ago
  I'm not arguing the logic of it, simply stating that, to my knowledge, it's a blanket practice. Discussion, and counter-examples are welcome.
  - mgkimsal 15y ago
    Counter example: No companies I've worked at had an explicit policy of rejecting a resume with a picture/photo. Whether it was done by some people in practice - unsure.
    - lean 15y ago
      All of the companies I've worked for _did_ have such an explicit policy, but both of our examples are anecdotal.
      - lotusleaf1987 15y ago
        The company I work at doesn't have that policy and neither has any other I've worked at.
        mgkimsal 15y ago
        But @lotusleaf1987, that's just anecdotal :)
        lotusleaf1987 15y ago
        That's totally my point, it's all anecdotal until someone does actual research and a poll.
        mgkimsal 15y ago
        The :) was meant to indicate a bit of sarcasm ;)
        lotusleaf1987 15y ago
        Sorry sometimes sarcasm on the internet is hard to grasp. I may also be a bit socially under-developed. ;)
  - spacemanaki 15y ago
    One (sort of reversed) counter example is American Apparel which actively solicits photos in their application: http://employment.americanapparel.net/employment/index.asp?cmd=resume_submit&opportunity_id=0191 http://employment.americanapparel.net/employment/index.asp?c... Edit: This would lead me to believe the law is somewhat up for interpretation and it's not cut and dried, since AA is a pretty big company and I would assume their legal dept had to sign off on this kind of thing. That being said, they are pretty well known for being sketchy and creepy.
    - true_religion 15y ago
      American Apparel claims it hires "models" and not merely people with any skill in particular; that's how they get away with discrimination based on physical characteristics.
eli 15y ago
You are using a very extreme interpretation of the law. It's illegal to discriminate against someone on the basis of race and other protected classes. So by extension, it's best practice to avoid asking applicants for their race or asking them for a photo, lest you give the appearance that it's a factor in the hiring decision. But I've never heard of rejecting someone outright for sending an unsolicited photo. That's just crazy. Would you also reject an applicant who had "President of African-American Student Union" on their resume because it belies their race?
- thingicantsay 15y ago
  Would you also reject an applicant who had "President of African-American Student Union" on their resume because it belies their race? Well, likely he wouldn't, but we can be sure that he would reject someone outright for having "President of the European-American Student Union", can't we? Charitably, this is because there is essentially no chance anyone would ever file a lawsuit for rejection of the second candidate. I'm sure you can draw the uncharitable version yourself. :)
  - eli 15y ago
    I'm not really sure what you're saying, but it sounds mildly offensive. It's both wrong and illegal to reject a candidate based on their race, regardless of what race that is. And I am pretty sure the OP was not implying otherwise. Further, I assure you that white people file discrimination lawsuits too.
    - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
      >I assure you that white people file discrimination lawsuits too. // Out of interest have you a reference to a white person winning a race discrimination case, preferably with regard to being hired? Also why should "an applicant who had 'President of African-American Student Union' on their resume because it belies their race?"? Surely a person of any race can be president of the African-American SU, or are they allowed to be racists?
rhizome 15y ago
My sense is that it's always a bad idea to ask for a picture and chances are that sending one won't help. The resume is in French, though, so this is likely different in Europe.
city41 15y ago
My resume doesn't include a picture, but it does have links to my StackOverflow profile, blog and github account. All three contain a picture of me. I've never had it be an issue while job hunting.

It's in the spirit of compliance with Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Any HR dept in the US will have a strict policy on this.

by lean 15y ago

It's in the spirit of compliance with Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Any HR dept in the US will have a strict policy on this.

mgkimsal 15y ago

See my point above on phone calls. I understand the 'spirit', but not everyone interprets that 'spirit' the same way, and some companies still have the guts to not ignore people simply because of what's on their resume - photos included. If I see someone lists attendance at an historically black college, or has a traditionally feminine name, I can already deduce their race or gender without a photo, and I can do whatever discriminating I want to do using that information. Company policies that throw out applicants because they've attached included any sort of photo at least as damaging (because of the loss to the company of potential talent) than lawsuits over Title VII violations, but it's much harder to quantify that. It's going to get harder and harder to even guard against this stuff as email clients merge social media information in while reviewing applicants. Oh, unless you just buy and use crappy web-based application software that requires 14 screens that only works in IE6 - then you'll be 100% safe from any chance of getting interested and qualified applicants (and lawsuits too).

lean 15y ago
I'm not arguing the logic of it, simply stating that, to my knowledge, it's a blanket practice. Discussion, and counter-examples are welcome.
- mgkimsal 15y ago
  Counter example: No companies I've worked at had an explicit policy of rejecting a resume with a picture/photo. Whether it was done by some people in practice - unsure.
  - lean 15y ago
    All of the companies I've worked for _did_ have such an explicit policy, but both of our examples are anecdotal.
    - lotusleaf1987 15y ago
      The company I work at doesn't have that policy and neither has any other I've worked at.
      - mgkimsal 15y ago
        But @lotusleaf1987, that's just anecdotal :)
        lotusleaf1987 15y ago
        That's totally my point, it's all anecdotal until someone does actual research and a poll.
        mgkimsal 15y ago
        The :) was meant to indicate a bit of sarcasm ;)
        lotusleaf1987 15y ago
        Sorry sometimes sarcasm on the internet is hard to grasp. I may also be a bit socially under-developed. ;)
- spacemanaki 15y ago
  One (sort of reversed) counter example is American Apparel which actively solicits photos in their application: http://employment.americanapparel.net/employment/index.asp?cmd=resume_submit&opportunity_id=0191 http://employment.americanapparel.net/employment/index.asp?c... Edit: This would lead me to believe the law is somewhat up for interpretation and it's not cut and dried, since AA is a pretty big company and I would assume their legal dept had to sign off on this kind of thing. That being said, they are pretty well known for being sketchy and creepy.
  - true_religion 15y ago
    American Apparel claims it hires "models" and not merely people with any skill in particular; that's how they get away with discrimination based on physical characteristics.

eli 15y ago

You are using a very extreme interpretation of the law. It's illegal to discriminate against someone on the basis of race and other protected classes. So by extension, it's best practice to avoid asking applicants for their race or asking them for a photo, lest you give the appearance that it's a factor in the hiring decision. But I've never heard of rejecting someone outright for sending an unsolicited photo. That's just crazy. Would you also reject an applicant who had "President of African-American Student Union" on their resume because it belies their race?

thingicantsay 15y ago
Would you also reject an applicant who had "President of African-American Student Union" on their resume because it belies their race? Well, likely he wouldn't, but we can be sure that he would reject someone outright for having "President of the European-American Student Union", can't we? Charitably, this is because there is essentially no chance anyone would ever file a lawsuit for rejection of the second candidate. I'm sure you can draw the uncharitable version yourself. :)
- eli 15y ago
  I'm not really sure what you're saying, but it sounds mildly offensive. It's both wrong and illegal to reject a candidate based on their race, regardless of what race that is. And I am pretty sure the OP was not implying otherwise. Further, I assure you that white people file discrimination lawsuits too.
  - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
    >I assure you that white people file discrimination lawsuits too. // Out of interest have you a reference to a white person winning a race discrimination case, preferably with regard to being hired? Also why should "an applicant who had 'President of African-American Student Union' on their resume because it belies their race?"? Surely a person of any race can be president of the African-American SU, or are they allowed to be racists?

rhizome 15y ago

My sense is that it's always a bad idea to ask for a picture and chances are that sending one won't help. The resume is in French, though, so this is likely different in Europe.

city41 15y ago

My resume doesn't include a picture, but it does have links to my StackOverflow profile, blog and github account. All three contain a picture of me. I've never had it be an issue while job hunting.