5 ms·

Excellent example with the app. It's an app that could have been designed and made with 100k, less people and better quality. And quicker. The current app is a

Excellent example with the app. It's an app that could have been designed and made with 100k, less people and better quality. And quicker. The current app is a nightmare. It shows that i had already 2 low risk encounters - but it doesn't show me when and where! I NEED this info to adapt my behavior! very bad app.

justoreply 6y ago
the app doesn't store location information by design for privacy reasons
- 88840-8855 6y ago
  if you ask normal people, they will hate this - only some data fanatics want this feature. people die. the economy is suffering. millions lose jobs. still, some guys making 140k in their it engineering jobs working from home and relaxing are telling me sth about "data privacy as priority". i disagree. people disagree. Taiwan did a FANTASTIC job leveraging data. we are either not capable of that or just fanatic.... maybe both.
  - justoreply 6y ago
    several people still remember the Stasi and they don't want a state controlled app to monitor their movement. If you want your app to have the biggest installation base (without asking for a mandatory installation) you can't ask for user location, with it enabled fewer people will install it
    - 88840-8855 6y ago
      ... the same people that shop on amazon, use "payback" (a shopping monitoring system), post crap on facebook and enjoy google's personalisation. Please, mate, this is just populism what you are doing there.
      - adriancr 6y ago
        I take it you haven't lived under a communist regime? There's a difference between what you share willingly and stuff being collected on you, especially in private matters.
      - neuronic 6y ago
        My family was directly affected by Stasi. I care about what the government knows and what it can do to you. I constantly have 2-3 low risk exposure notifications. But it doesn't matter where they happened since I already know that I am carefully avoiding risky areas. I am sitting next to my window when working and people walk past that window within 2 meters. That alone could set off exposure notifications. Or maybe someone across the aisle in the supermarket? Would I not go to the supermarket if I know it happened there? Would I not go for a walk if I knew someone 8 meters away from me on some bench was later diagnosed with COVID? It barely serves any purpose at all outside of curiosity. The app already tells you everything you need to know.
      - fogihujy 6y ago
        Please don't compare anti-consumer behaviour of US mega-corporations with the atrocities that intelligence services behind the Iron Curtain committed on their own peoples. It's simply not in the same ballpark.
      - imtringued 6y ago
        Not everyone shops on amazon but everyone would have to install a government mandated app. You're overgeneralizing every human.
        LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        What if I have no app-capable smart and mobile device? Does the government provide me with one? Do I get an electronic ankle bracelet instead? What about a collar?
        joejerryronnie 6y ago
        Government mandated implants are more efficient
  - tastroder 6y ago
    The German tech scene struggled for about a month to stop the senseless data hoarding of the centralised digital contact tracing approach that was spearheaded and developed by a bunch of lobbyists. You might disagree with the concept that developed, and is generally accepted in a majority of Europe, but it's certainly not "the people" being against that. The when and where of individual encounters, especially at low levels of infected population, are pretty irrelevant. At this point you should really be aware of how you can change your behaviour to minimise risk, that really hasn't changed in the past few months.
  - Vinnl 6y ago
    > people die. the economy is suffering. millions lose jobs. So when the app tells you to quarantine, you quarantine? Or it is important enough to share everyone's location data, but not for people to more radically adjust their behaviour rather than just avoid a particular location?
  - jclos 6y ago
    > if you ask normal people, they will hate this - only some data fanatics want this feature. Show the evidence. Wanting data privacy is far from the fringe minority sentiment you imply it to be, otherwise GDPR wouldn't be so popular.
    - 88840-8855 6y ago
      life and death vs annoying ads. i think there is a difference, mate.
      - adriancr 6y ago
        There should be another solution that doesn't bring stasi level monitoring...
    - jokethrowaway 6y ago
      The only people who like gdpr and cookie banners are lawyers and agencies who can charge some money for that
      - malka 6y ago
        Citation neeeded.
brazzy 6y ago
You're talking out of your ass. Literally everyone who knows anything calls the German app a huge success, especially compared with similar efforts.
- tupputuppu 6y ago
  In Finland, the authorities reserved 6M to create a contact tracing app and all support systems. They ended up building it for 150k, with 250k more to operate it until the end of next year. Half the population downloaded it in the first days and it works great. It's completely privacy-focused and the UX is great for both individuals as well as the government. Is the German tracking solution really 400 times as complex? Based on either citizens' adoption or UX, is it anywhere near as successful? Built by a small, Agile company, although not by a startup by any classification.
  - brazzy 6y ago
    > They ended up building it for 150k, with 250k more to operate it until the end of next year. Do you have any source for that? If true that is indeed impressive, but I am sceptical, given that your claim that "Half the population downloaded it" seems to be extremely exaggerated (https://qz.com/1898960/whats-behind-finlands-contact-tracing-app-success-user-privacy/ https://qz.com/1898960/whats-behind-finlands-contact-tracing...) One way in which the German app was clearly superior is that it was released a full month and a half earlier.
    - tupputuppu 6y ago
      Costs, use Google Translate: https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/koronavilkkuun-on-varattu-6-miljoona-euroa-kehitys-maksoi-147-000-minne-loput-rahat-menevat/7915338 https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/koronavilkkuun-on-varatt... Share of population that downloaded it - Your article only talk about the first 24 hours. See for instance this article that says 1.8 milloin a month and a half ago: https://mobiili.fi/2020/09/08/koronavilkun-lataukset-yli-18-miljoonan-nain-moni-on-poistanut-sovelluksen/ https://mobiili.fi/2020/09/08/koronavilkun-lataukset-yli-18-... That's beginning to be half of the relevant population in a country of 6 million, when you take out kids and people in old folks' homes.

justoreply 6y ago

the app doesn't store location information by design for privacy reasons

88840-8855 6y ago
if you ask normal people, they will hate this - only some data fanatics want this feature. people die. the economy is suffering. millions lose jobs. still, some guys making 140k in their it engineering jobs working from home and relaxing are telling me sth about "data privacy as priority". i disagree. people disagree. Taiwan did a FANTASTIC job leveraging data. we are either not capable of that or just fanatic.... maybe both.
- justoreply 6y ago
  several people still remember the Stasi and they don't want a state controlled app to monitor their movement. If you want your app to have the biggest installation base (without asking for a mandatory installation) you can't ask for user location, with it enabled fewer people will install it
  - 88840-8855 6y ago
    ... the same people that shop on amazon, use "payback" (a shopping monitoring system), post crap on facebook and enjoy google's personalisation. Please, mate, this is just populism what you are doing there.
    - adriancr 6y ago
      I take it you haven't lived under a communist regime? There's a difference between what you share willingly and stuff being collected on you, especially in private matters.
    - neuronic 6y ago
      My family was directly affected by Stasi. I care about what the government knows and what it can do to you. I constantly have 2-3 low risk exposure notifications. But it doesn't matter where they happened since I already know that I am carefully avoiding risky areas. I am sitting next to my window when working and people walk past that window within 2 meters. That alone could set off exposure notifications. Or maybe someone across the aisle in the supermarket? Would I not go to the supermarket if I know it happened there? Would I not go for a walk if I knew someone 8 meters away from me on some bench was later diagnosed with COVID? It barely serves any purpose at all outside of curiosity. The app already tells you everything you need to know.
    - fogihujy 6y ago
      Please don't compare anti-consumer behaviour of US mega-corporations with the atrocities that intelligence services behind the Iron Curtain committed on their own peoples. It's simply not in the same ballpark.
    - imtringued 6y ago
      Not everyone shops on amazon but everyone would have to install a government mandated app. You're overgeneralizing every human.
      - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        What if I have no app-capable smart and mobile device? Does the government provide me with one? Do I get an electronic ankle bracelet instead? What about a collar?
        joejerryronnie 6y ago
        Government mandated implants are more efficient
- tastroder 6y ago
  The German tech scene struggled for about a month to stop the senseless data hoarding of the centralised digital contact tracing approach that was spearheaded and developed by a bunch of lobbyists. You might disagree with the concept that developed, and is generally accepted in a majority of Europe, but it's certainly not "the people" being against that. The when and where of individual encounters, especially at low levels of infected population, are pretty irrelevant. At this point you should really be aware of how you can change your behaviour to minimise risk, that really hasn't changed in the past few months.
- Vinnl 6y ago
  > people die. the economy is suffering. millions lose jobs. So when the app tells you to quarantine, you quarantine? Or it is important enough to share everyone's location data, but not for people to more radically adjust their behaviour rather than just avoid a particular location?
- jclos 6y ago
  > if you ask normal people, they will hate this - only some data fanatics want this feature. Show the evidence. Wanting data privacy is far from the fringe minority sentiment you imply it to be, otherwise GDPR wouldn't be so popular.
  - 88840-8855 6y ago
    life and death vs annoying ads. i think there is a difference, mate.
    - adriancr 6y ago
      There should be another solution that doesn't bring stasi level monitoring...
  - jokethrowaway 6y ago
    The only people who like gdpr and cookie banners are lawyers and agencies who can charge some money for that
    - malka 6y ago
      Citation neeeded.

brazzy 6y ago

You're talking out of your ass. Literally everyone who knows anything calls the German app a huge success, especially compared with similar efforts.

tupputuppu 6y ago
In Finland, the authorities reserved 6M to create a contact tracing app and all support systems. They ended up building it for 150k, with 250k more to operate it until the end of next year. Half the population downloaded it in the first days and it works great. It's completely privacy-focused and the UX is great for both individuals as well as the government. Is the German tracking solution really 400 times as complex? Based on either citizens' adoption or UX, is it anywhere near as successful? Built by a small, Agile company, although not by a startup by any classification.
- brazzy 6y ago
  > They ended up building it for 150k, with 250k more to operate it until the end of next year. Do you have any source for that? If true that is indeed impressive, but I am sceptical, given that your claim that "Half the population downloaded it" seems to be extremely exaggerated (https://qz.com/1898960/whats-behind-finlands-contact-tracing-app-success-user-privacy/ https://qz.com/1898960/whats-behind-finlands-contact-tracing...) One way in which the German app was clearly superior is that it was released a full month and a half earlier.
  - tupputuppu 6y ago
    Costs, use Google Translate: https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/koronavilkkuun-on-varattu-6-miljoona-euroa-kehitys-maksoi-147-000-minne-loput-rahat-menevat/7915338 https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/koronavilkkuun-on-varatt... Share of population that downloaded it - Your article only talk about the first 24 hours. See for instance this article that says 1.8 milloin a month and a half ago: https://mobiili.fi/2020/09/08/koronavilkun-lataukset-yli-18-miljoonan-nain-moni-on-poistanut-sovelluksen/ https://mobiili.fi/2020/09/08/koronavilkun-lataukset-yli-18-... That's beginning to be half of the relevant population in a country of 6 million, when you take out kids and people in old folks' homes.