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This unfourtunatly is why GPU-enabled JavaScript on the web won't take off. It works on iPhone and Windows desktop but does not work on iPad Pro 11, not on Gal

This unfourtunatly is why GPU-enabled JavaScript on the web won't take off. It works on iPhone and Windows desktop but does not work on iPad Pro 11, not on Galaxy S10, not on some Linux desktops. So, it is inconsistent even within the same iOS ecosystem. Some might say the OP misconfigured or I need to go about:config, but these kinds of thing should be trivial for developers/users. Even Flash used to work out of the box across platforms. Why things going backwards?

newhotelowner 6y ago
I don't need to download everything to try it. I don't have to trust a random site to try something. Apple decided that Flash is not the future when they launched iphone/iOS.
- silly-silly 6y ago
  More correctly, they 'ensured' that anything not them wasn't going to happen.
vbezhenar 6y ago
1. Flash is not a standard. Flash is developed by a single company. There could not be any compatibility issues because of that. Web is moving to that direction with Chromium engine being used everywhere, but it's not there yet. 2. Flash is relatively high-level API when it comes to graphics. Shaders are low level and while they should work everywhere, I guess, one could still run into compatibility issues between different video adapters.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  Why are we talking about on Flash? That's the weakest part of the argument. The main point OP is pointing out is the inconsistency of WebGL. Even if he didn't make a point about Flash, the central message would be unaffected.
  - pvorb 6y ago
    > Why are we talking about on Flash? That's the weakest part of the argument. I guess you found the reason.
vii 6y ago
There were plenty of platform specific problems with Flash. Steve Jobs famously ranted about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughts_on_Flash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughts_on_Flash That said, cross platform compatibility is always going to be hard. I'm still amazed that Adobe let that platform die. It has taken so long and so much effort to recover equivalent functionality, and in some cases we are still lagging what Flash could do.
- on_and_off 6y ago
  let's be honest, the fact that allowing flash would also allow webapps not controlled by apple to go on the platform was a huge factor.
sunnyps 6y ago
First of all, just extrapolating from someone's side/hobby/demo project to all WebGL pages is naive. The effort put into a demo is orders of magnitude less than a real site. Second, "GPU-enabled JavaScript" has already taken off. Ever used Google Maps or Google Earth - both use WebGL heavily? Or maybe you read the NYTimes who occasionally produce pages with a heavy WebGL focus[1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/01/09/sports/the-dawn-wall-el-capitan.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/01/09/sports/the-da...
- kbumsik 6y ago
  I mean, these kinds of things should work without highly paid devs like googlers. I have seen a lot of WebGL projects on HN and they always have had issues on some recent devices. The biggest problem with the WebGL compatibility issue is that it is unpredictable. We don't know which devices work until we open the page. Maybe I am expecting too much, but this degree of inconsistency shouldn't happen to hobby projects neither.
  - rewq4321 6y ago
    I've never had problems with three.js, which is what most people use for WebGL-powered content. Are you claiming that there's less effort in coding up a native graphics program that works across all platforms? Certainly native has the edge on performance (WebGPU will shorten the gap a bit), but on ease of multi-device compatability? I could be convinced, but it seems hard to believe. The whole idea of the browser (these days) is to make cross-platform stuff easier to develop.
    - rikroots 6y ago
      The demo seems to be built on top of three.js - I can spot lots of THREE tags in the bundled javascript file.
  - iainmerrick 6y ago
    I think most of this is just WebGL 1 (AKA OpenGL ES 2) versus WebGL 2 (AKA OpenGL ES 3). If you restrict yourself to the basic parts of WebGL 1 your app will work almost everywhere, as compatibility is excellent on all recent phones and OSes. There’s a lot of nice stuff in WebGL 2 (eg float textures, vertex textures) but as soon as you try to use it you either sacrifice compatibility on a bunch of devices, or you have to check for various extensions to try to figure out what’s going to work, and try to fall back gracefully if possible.
hbcondo714 6y ago
> not on Galaxy S10 Seems to be working great on my Galaxy S9. What isn't supposed to work?
- kbumsik 6y ago
  > What isn't supposed to work I am not saying it's not supposed to work. It's my Galaxy S10 with Chrome that doesn't work. Your comment shows the problem I am pointing out: we don't know even which devices isn't supposed to work, it's almost random.
  - thesandlord 6y ago
    There might be something wrong with your phone, my S10 with Chrome is working well. Edit: Actually, I remembered now there are two versions of the S10, the Snapdragon and the Exynos variants. I have the Snapdragon one, might be a difference. I'm not sure if desktop graphics are any better. It's a reason why a lot of people choose consoles, no chance of incompatibility. But even then you have ports and games that are poorly made!
    - Baeocystin 6y ago
      FWIW, it's working on my S10/Chrome as well.
gitgud 6y ago
Doesn't work on my Samsung s10. Maybe there should at least be a browser permissions popup for the GPU, like the location access popup.
tomlagier 6y ago
Was this effect achievable with Flash?
franciscop 6y ago
Javascript APIs used to have that same problem where you didn't know in which browser it'd work until you actually tried it and it did take off quite spectacularly. Just give it some years for platforms like Apple to catch up, but there needs to be pressure with people complaining that "it doesn't work on iPad Pro 11".
- josefx 6y ago
  Apple catching up on OpenGL related functionality? Is the sky green where you live?
jlokier 6y ago
The worst was a laptop I had running Ubuntu and the nVidia driver. When any WebGL page was opened in Firefox, it crashed the X server. You didn't even get a blank page, and of course lost whatever you were working on at the time.
- fierarul 6y ago
  ... and, if it can crash the X server it might also be the gateway for an exploit.
ralfd 6y ago
iPads are masquerading as a Mac to avoid getting a gimped mobile website. Request a mobile website in Safari (aA button in address bar) and it works.
peey 6y ago
This is akin to saying "html5 won't take off". That's what standards are for. Compatibility issues are expected in early stages of implementation.

newhotelowner 6y ago

I don't need to download everything to try it. I don't have to trust a random site to try something. Apple decided that Flash is not the future when they launched iphone/iOS.

silly-silly 6y ago
More correctly, they 'ensured' that anything not them wasn't going to happen.

vbezhenar 6y ago

1. Flash is not a standard. Flash is developed by a single company. There could not be any compatibility issues because of that. Web is moving to that direction with Chromium engine being used everywhere, but it's not there yet. 2. Flash is relatively high-level API when it comes to graphics. Shaders are low level and while they should work everywhere, I guess, one could still run into compatibility issues between different video adapters.

systemvoltage 6y ago
Why are we talking about on Flash? That's the weakest part of the argument. The main point OP is pointing out is the inconsistency of WebGL. Even if he didn't make a point about Flash, the central message would be unaffected.
- pvorb 6y ago
  > Why are we talking about on Flash? That's the weakest part of the argument. I guess you found the reason.

vii 6y ago

There were plenty of platform specific problems with Flash. Steve Jobs famously ranted about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughts_on_Flash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughts_on_Flash That said, cross platform compatibility is always going to be hard. I'm still amazed that Adobe let that platform die. It has taken so long and so much effort to recover equivalent functionality, and in some cases we are still lagging what Flash could do.

on_and_off 6y ago
let's be honest, the fact that allowing flash would also allow webapps not controlled by apple to go on the platform was a huge factor.

sunnyps 6y ago

First of all, just extrapolating from someone's side/hobby/demo project to all WebGL pages is naive. The effort put into a demo is orders of magnitude less than a real site. Second, "GPU-enabled JavaScript" has already taken off. Ever used Google Maps or Google Earth - both use WebGL heavily? Or maybe you read the NYTimes who occasionally produce pages with a heavy WebGL focus[1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/01/09/sports/the-dawn-wall-el-capitan.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/01/09/sports/the-da...

kbumsik 6y ago
I mean, these kinds of things should work without highly paid devs like googlers. I have seen a lot of WebGL projects on HN and they always have had issues on some recent devices. The biggest problem with the WebGL compatibility issue is that it is unpredictable. We don't know which devices work until we open the page. Maybe I am expecting too much, but this degree of inconsistency shouldn't happen to hobby projects neither.
- rewq4321 6y ago
  I've never had problems with three.js, which is what most people use for WebGL-powered content. Are you claiming that there's less effort in coding up a native graphics program that works across all platforms? Certainly native has the edge on performance (WebGPU will shorten the gap a bit), but on ease of multi-device compatability? I could be convinced, but it seems hard to believe. The whole idea of the browser (these days) is to make cross-platform stuff easier to develop.
  - rikroots 6y ago
    The demo seems to be built on top of three.js - I can spot lots of THREE tags in the bundled javascript file.
- iainmerrick 6y ago
  I think most of this is just WebGL 1 (AKA OpenGL ES 2) versus WebGL 2 (AKA OpenGL ES 3). If you restrict yourself to the basic parts of WebGL 1 your app will work almost everywhere, as compatibility is excellent on all recent phones and OSes. There’s a lot of nice stuff in WebGL 2 (eg float textures, vertex textures) but as soon as you try to use it you either sacrifice compatibility on a bunch of devices, or you have to check for various extensions to try to figure out what’s going to work, and try to fall back gracefully if possible.

hbcondo714 6y ago

> not on Galaxy S10 Seems to be working great on my Galaxy S9. What isn't supposed to work?

kbumsik 6y ago
> What isn't supposed to work I am not saying it's not supposed to work. It's my Galaxy S10 with Chrome that doesn't work. Your comment shows the problem I am pointing out: we don't know even which devices isn't supposed to work, it's almost random.
- thesandlord 6y ago
  There might be something wrong with your phone, my S10 with Chrome is working well. Edit: Actually, I remembered now there are two versions of the S10, the Snapdragon and the Exynos variants. I have the Snapdragon one, might be a difference. I'm not sure if desktop graphics are any better. It's a reason why a lot of people choose consoles, no chance of incompatibility. But even then you have ports and games that are poorly made!
  - Baeocystin 6y ago
    FWIW, it's working on my S10/Chrome as well.

gitgud 6y ago

Doesn't work on my Samsung s10. Maybe there should at least be a browser permissions popup for the GPU, like the location access popup.

tomlagier 6y ago

Was this effect achievable with Flash?

franciscop 6y ago

Javascript APIs used to have that same problem where you didn't know in which browser it'd work until you actually tried it and it did take off quite spectacularly. Just give it some years for platforms like Apple to catch up, but there needs to be pressure with people complaining that "it doesn't work on iPad Pro 11".

josefx 6y ago
Apple catching up on OpenGL related functionality? Is the sky green where you live?

jlokier 6y ago

The worst was a laptop I had running Ubuntu and the nVidia driver. When any WebGL page was opened in Firefox, it crashed the X server. You didn't even get a blank page, and of course lost whatever you were working on at the time.

fierarul 6y ago
... and, if it can crash the X server it might also be the gateway for an exploit.

ralfd 6y ago

iPads are masquerading as a Mac to avoid getting a gimped mobile website. Request a mobile website in Safari (aA button in address bar) and it works.

peey 6y ago

This is akin to saying "html5 won't take off". That's what standards are for. Compatibility issues are expected in early stages of implementation.