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This is all true, but COVID hysteria has taken hold across the entire world, and HN is no exception unfortunately. You are being reflexively down voted because

This is all true, but COVID hysteria has taken hold across the entire world, and HN is no exception unfortunately. You are being reflexively down voted because people view any comparison to Influenza as illegitimate, not realizing that you are making a broader point about risk management and attribution of blame for infection as opposed to saying that SARS-2 and Influenza are literally the same viruses. Personally I find it fascinating that I was never told it was my fault if I gave someone the flu in the course of both of us living our normal lives, but if I go to a grocery store and an elderly person does too and they get COVID-19 from me (imagine in this hypothetical there is no doubt that I gave them the virus) then somehow it’s my fault and I’m guilty of any harm that befalls then. Incredibly dangerous precedent. I hope people see where it leads. And I hope they learn from the history of public health, such as when “public health officials” used to shut down gay bars “for the greater good”.

amelius 6y ago
I don't see the point. There are rules now, so not following them would indeed make it your fault if someone gets sick because of your actions that were not in accordance with the rules.
- __blockcipher__ 6y ago
  Because if I go out into the world and get infected with a disease, that’s one of the risks of living life, and we have always understood that. That’s why if you catch the flu nobody blames the man next to you at the grocery store. For COVID we throw this out the window. When you take the approach to its logical conclusion you end up in a very scary place.
  - amelius 6y ago
    > That’s why if you catch the flu nobody blames the man next to you at the grocery store. I would if he wasn't sufficiently careful about it.
  - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
    One of the risks of sex is venereal disease. I probably shouldn’t bother with condoms though, it’s just one of the risks of living life. Is this the same logic you are using, or am I misunderstanding you?
BlewisJS 6y ago
If you know you have the flu (or COVID-19), surely you know you are likely contagious and can spread it to more vulnerable people. Yes, it is your fault and you deserve blame if you knowingly spread it to others through negligence. Stay home if you're sick.
- __blockcipher__ 6y ago
  I agree those who are symptomatic should stay home. But for COVID we go further and tell asymptomatic people to perform (flawed) transmission control measures. Where do we do that with Flu? The point is if I don’t know I have COVID and spread it to Grandma at the grocery store, in your eyes I’ve killed Grandma. I wonder why we don’t apply that logic everywhere.
  - kvez 6y ago
    The influenza vaccine is a flawed transmission control measure and is the best we have available, same as masks. We do blame people who skip those, although it doesn't show on their faces like the absence of a mask does. The spreadability of the flu is also much lower than that of COVID-19 (largely thanks to the vaccines), which is really why people never regarded masks as necessary for the flu.
jointpdf 6y ago
I can only speak for myself here, but COVID-19 has increased my awareness of the impact of flu season and I will endeavor to mitigate the risk of infecting others in the future. In the past, I hardly gave it a second thought—it never occurred to me that I could kill or harm someone by being careless (e.g. riding the metro to/from the climbing gym during flu season and indiscriminately spreading germs). Masks, giving people space, combining shopping trips, biking or driving, etc.—all are super easy ways to reduce potential harm to myself or others, so I’m more than happy to do these things as necessary going forward. There is no sense of fear or guilt, since I know I’ve done what I can reasonably do. In that sense, I think comparing COVID-19 to the flu is helpful.
- dabbledash 6y ago
  This is something I really worry about: that people are so risk averse and so invested in the COVID response that society is going to permanently become more cold, more closed off, and less human. 2020 life is no way to live long term, and I don’t even want to take a step in this direction. If I found out tomorrow that there would never be a cure or vaccine for COVID, I would just go back to living like I lived before.
  - sterlind 6y ago
    I sure hope that sick people continue to wear masks once this is all over. It's basic human decency to avoid spreading germs - even the flu - to others, especially elders. This is the norm in Asia. After COVID ends, I won't wear a mask if I'm healthy but I sure as hell will if I have a cough or fever.
    - dabbledash 6y ago
      Might be reasonable, but would you wear one all flu season just to make sure you don’t unwittingly infect someone while you’re asymptomatic? Might save a life. If everybody comes out of this more careful about handwashing, I can’t argue that that’s bad. But I worry it’s going to go way past that. I’m probably wrong though, judging by the number of people who already can’t be bothered with the one way aisles at the grocery store.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sjg007 6y ago
Wear a mask and stay 6 feet away.
nobody9999 6y ago
>Personally I find it fascinating that I was never told it was my fault if I gave someone the flu in the course of both of us living our normal lives, but if I go to a grocery store and an elderly person does too and they get COVID-19 from me (imagine in this hypothetical there is no doubt that I gave them the virus) then somehow it’s my fault and I’m guilty of any harm that befalls then. You ignore an important factor. Those who are vulnerable to serious complications/death from influenza can and should be inoculated with the latest influenza vaccine. That significantly mitigates the risk for the vulnerable. There is no corresponding vaccine for Sars-Cov2. As such, the similar group who are vulnerable can't mitigate the risk. That's why I (and many others) are trying to be much more careful. I'd also add that while the IFR for those under 55 are quite low, they aren't zero.

amelius 6y ago

I don't see the point. There are rules now, so not following them would indeed make it your fault if someone gets sick because of your actions that were not in accordance with the rules.

__blockcipher__ 6y ago
Because if I go out into the world and get infected with a disease, that’s one of the risks of living life, and we have always understood that. That’s why if you catch the flu nobody blames the man next to you at the grocery store. For COVID we throw this out the window. When you take the approach to its logical conclusion you end up in a very scary place.
- amelius 6y ago
  > That’s why if you catch the flu nobody blames the man next to you at the grocery store. I would if he wasn't sufficiently careful about it.
- amanaplanacanal 6y ago
  One of the risks of sex is venereal disease. I probably shouldn’t bother with condoms though, it’s just one of the risks of living life. Is this the same logic you are using, or am I misunderstanding you?

BlewisJS 6y ago

If you know you have the flu (or COVID-19), surely you know you are likely contagious and can spread it to more vulnerable people. Yes, it is your fault and you deserve blame if you knowingly spread it to others through negligence. Stay home if you're sick.

__blockcipher__ 6y ago
I agree those who are symptomatic should stay home. But for COVID we go further and tell asymptomatic people to perform (flawed) transmission control measures. Where do we do that with Flu? The point is if I don’t know I have COVID and spread it to Grandma at the grocery store, in your eyes I’ve killed Grandma. I wonder why we don’t apply that logic everywhere.
- kvez 6y ago
  The influenza vaccine is a flawed transmission control measure and is the best we have available, same as masks. We do blame people who skip those, although it doesn't show on their faces like the absence of a mask does. The spreadability of the flu is also much lower than that of COVID-19 (largely thanks to the vaccines), which is really why people never regarded masks as necessary for the flu.

jointpdf 6y ago

I can only speak for myself here, but COVID-19 has increased my awareness of the impact of flu season and I will endeavor to mitigate the risk of infecting others in the future. In the past, I hardly gave it a second thought—it never occurred to me that I could kill or harm someone by being careless (e.g. riding the metro to/from the climbing gym during flu season and indiscriminately spreading germs). Masks, giving people space, combining shopping trips, biking or driving, etc.—all are super easy ways to reduce potential harm to myself or others, so I’m more than happy to do these things as necessary going forward. There is no sense of fear or guilt, since I know I’ve done what I can reasonably do. In that sense, I think comparing COVID-19 to the flu is helpful.

dabbledash 6y ago
This is something I really worry about: that people are so risk averse and so invested in the COVID response that society is going to permanently become more cold, more closed off, and less human. 2020 life is no way to live long term, and I don’t even want to take a step in this direction. If I found out tomorrow that there would never be a cure or vaccine for COVID, I would just go back to living like I lived before.
- sterlind 6y ago
  I sure hope that sick people continue to wear masks once this is all over. It's basic human decency to avoid spreading germs - even the flu - to others, especially elders. This is the norm in Asia. After COVID ends, I won't wear a mask if I'm healthy but I sure as hell will if I have a cough or fever.
  - dabbledash 6y ago
    Might be reasonable, but would you wear one all flu season just to make sure you don’t unwittingly infect someone while you’re asymptomatic? Might save a life. If everybody comes out of this more careful about handwashing, I can’t argue that that’s bad. But I worry it’s going to go way past that. I’m probably wrong though, judging by the number of people who already can’t be bothered with the one way aisles at the grocery store.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

sjg007 6y ago

Wear a mask and stay 6 feet away.

nobody9999 6y ago

>Personally I find it fascinating that I was never told it was my fault if I gave someone the flu in the course of both of us living our normal lives, but if I go to a grocery store and an elderly person does too and they get COVID-19 from me (imagine in this hypothetical there is no doubt that I gave them the virus) then somehow it’s my fault and I’m guilty of any harm that befalls then. You ignore an important factor. Those who are vulnerable to serious complications/death from influenza can and should be inoculated with the latest influenza vaccine. That significantly mitigates the risk for the vulnerable. There is no corresponding vaccine for Sars-Cov2. As such, the similar group who are vulnerable can't mitigate the risk. That's why I (and many others) are trying to be much more careful. I'd also add that while the IFR for those under 55 are quite low, they aren't zero.