4 ms·

To be fair, even now, in 2020, even with something user friendly like Ubuntu, on desktop, the win10 experience is way smoother and less liable to crash.

by ivalm 6y ago

skohan 6y ago
I guess it depends what you mean by "smoother". The thing I appreciate about Ubuntu as compared to windows is how quiet it is. The only things I see are the things I put there. With win10 there is so much noise on the desktop, in the start menu, and in system notifications. After switching it feels relatively stressful to use Windows. Also I can't remember the last time Ubuntu crashed on me.
- OJFord 6y ago
  I'm pretty sure Arch has never crashed on me; I remember plenty of BSODs from Windows. Sure, I've messed up configuration and myself broken pieces of it, but I could do that on Windows too. But memes won't die, arch is unstable, Linux is hard and for nerds only. (I should add that I'm not even a careful Arch user - one probably should check news before upgrading; I've never bothered.)
  - bluecatswim 6y ago
    I've never used Arch but I think it should be considered as the "default" GNU/Linux distro at this point, Canonical have made plenty of bad decisions in the past year (forcing snaps for certain packages, advertisements in the MOTD, etc) and Ubuntu doesn't provide a lot in terms of user-friendliness over Arch with an installer. And from what I've heard Arch also works painlessly for casual applications like gaming with Proton because of the efforts the community has put into it, despite it not being a distro officially supported by Proton.
    - OJFord 6y ago
      Hm, definitely would need a friendly installer though. To the point of selecting a 'theme' so that it boots up afterwards looking like Ubuntu, or something out of /r/UnixPorn.
aszen 6y ago
My personal experience has been Ubuntu is not only faster but way less annoying especially with live patch updates. The problem with windows for personal use is that it gets in the way too often with pop ups, notifications and crap ads inside start menu. Modern gnome is quite good already, though our team is using older hardware that's well supported on Linux. New team members get familiar with the gnome desktop quite quickly and with a dedicated app store installing apps has never been more easier on Linux. We do still use windows but only inside a vm for office and outlook mainly because we have to With many people using browser based tools there is simply not much of a difference in people's workflows across desktop oses. I think the change has to start at the enterprise level, once companies start using linux then it's simply a matter of time before people switch their personal computers to linux.
- formerly_proven 6y ago
  > The problem with windows for personal use is that it gets in the way too often with pop ups, notifications and crap ads inside start menu. It's no less a problem for enterprise use. On my Windows 10 work machine I constantly get pop-ups begging for credentials and attention for stuff that I simply don't care about or that doesn't need the credentials. Some of these are particularly aggressive and will always steal keyboard focus from any window, while daring to put up another pop up notification near the systray (which are so extremely important according to microsoft, that these notifications have even higher priority than the pop-up menu of the systray -- what'cha thinking Microsoft, do I wanna interact with the thing I just clicked on to open, or with the thing you pooped up over it under my cursor?!) when I dismiss them. I made a spreadsheet once and got about two dozen work-interruptions from Microsoft popups. Not to mention the absurd aggressiveness of Microsoft Teams notifications. I avoid the app when I'm not actively participating in a call (it randomly uses too much CPU and is also obviously tracking everything you do on the PC), so I usually have Teams quarantined in a Firefox tab. Other software manages to have hit-me-once notifications, but not Teams. Somewhere someone writes a message? Let's put multiple notifications on the screen and start bleeping away. What, you didn't look at the message? Let's send a reminder email! Modern Microsoft software would make Kafka cringe, for we are morons allowing this.
mhh__ 6y ago
Really? Ubuntu is pretty much rock solid, and if it does crash it doesn't just say I broke it, fuck you like windows. Windows makes me restart just to update .Net for Christ's sake.
- mrgordon 6y ago
  As much as I hate Windows, I’ve had some really terrible experiences with Ubuntu. One of the system upgrades broke startup of the OS and it was a major nightmare. Not saying Windows should be the alternative, but Linux is definitely not ready for most of my family to use it
  - sergeykish 6y ago
    > but Linux is definitely not ready for most of my family to use it Somehow you've got decision about Linux from Ubuntu. There are not as much changes on rolling release though I had once similar problem on Arch Linux in a decade. I've heard it is impossible on Nix (easy rollback).
    - mrgordon 6y ago
      Well it’s the one often pointed to as “user friendly” even though it’s not my favorite. I would never choose it over say Debian but I also wouldn’t recommend Debian to my family
      - sergeykish 6y ago
        Ubuntu is a product of a private company (Canonical Ltd), I expect them to have marketing department [1]. There are 443 Canonical employees [2] and 13400 Red Hat employees [3]. I've heard "Red Hat" a lot in presentations of core stack - X, Cairo, Pango. Linux kernel contribution by company — Red Hat 8%, no Canonical [4]. Ubuntu made upstart, mir, unity, now snap. Red Hat made systemd and flatpak. Ubuntu experiments with users more than Arch Linux does. It is among the first on pulseaudio, systemd, wayland. Some reverted, some lived through. It is not stable. So why is Ubuntu user friendly? [1] https://canonical.com/careers/marketing https://canonical.com/careers/marketing [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_(company) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat [4] https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/2016/08/the-top-10-developers-and-companies-contributing-to-the-linux-kernel-in-2015-2016/ https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/2016/08/the-top-10-deve...
29athrowaway 6y ago
Citation needed.
29athrowaway 6y ago
And the target of most malware. So you require to run an antivirus that will cripple your computer. And most of the time it is not your decision to do it, it's company policy.
- ivalm 6y ago
  This is just not true for at least a few years now. Most people I know who do have a win10 box as well as my own experience neither run additional antivirus software nor have any malware related issues. This includes a bunch of elderly family friends for whom I am “tech support” as their are not computer sophisticated.
  - 29athrowaway 6y ago
    There are many companies where a person clicks on some phishing link and ends up infecting the entire company with a wormable ransomware. I have not heard of this ever happening with macOS or Linux.

To be fair, even now, in 2020, even with something user friendly like Ubuntu, on desktop, the win10 experience is way smoother and less liable to crash.

by ivalm 6y ago

To be fair, even now, in 2020, even with something user friendly like Ubuntu, on desktop, the win10 experience is way smoother and less liable to crash.

skohan 6y ago

I guess it depends what you mean by "smoother". The thing I appreciate about Ubuntu as compared to windows is how quiet it is. The only things I see are the things I put there. With win10 there is so much noise on the desktop, in the start menu, and in system notifications. After switching it feels relatively stressful to use Windows. Also I can't remember the last time Ubuntu crashed on me.

OJFord 6y ago
I'm pretty sure Arch has never crashed on me; I remember plenty of BSODs from Windows. Sure, I've messed up configuration and myself broken pieces of it, but I could do that on Windows too. But memes won't die, arch is unstable, Linux is hard and for nerds only. (I should add that I'm not even a careful Arch user - one probably should check news before upgrading; I've never bothered.)
- bluecatswim 6y ago
  I've never used Arch but I think it should be considered as the "default" GNU/Linux distro at this point, Canonical have made plenty of bad decisions in the past year (forcing snaps for certain packages, advertisements in the MOTD, etc) and Ubuntu doesn't provide a lot in terms of user-friendliness over Arch with an installer. And from what I've heard Arch also works painlessly for casual applications like gaming with Proton because of the efforts the community has put into it, despite it not being a distro officially supported by Proton.
  - OJFord 6y ago
    Hm, definitely would need a friendly installer though. To the point of selecting a 'theme' so that it boots up afterwards looking like Ubuntu, or something out of /r/UnixPorn.

aszen 6y ago

My personal experience has been Ubuntu is not only faster but way less annoying especially with live patch updates. The problem with windows for personal use is that it gets in the way too often with pop ups, notifications and crap ads inside start menu. Modern gnome is quite good already, though our team is using older hardware that's well supported on Linux. New team members get familiar with the gnome desktop quite quickly and with a dedicated app store installing apps has never been more easier on Linux. We do still use windows but only inside a vm for office and outlook mainly because we have to With many people using browser based tools there is simply not much of a difference in people's workflows across desktop oses. I think the change has to start at the enterprise level, once companies start using linux then it's simply a matter of time before people switch their personal computers to linux.

formerly_proven 6y ago
> The problem with windows for personal use is that it gets in the way too often with pop ups, notifications and crap ads inside start menu. It's no less a problem for enterprise use. On my Windows 10 work machine I constantly get pop-ups begging for credentials and attention for stuff that I simply don't care about or that doesn't need the credentials. Some of these are particularly aggressive and will always steal keyboard focus from any window, while daring to put up another pop up notification near the systray (which are so extremely important according to microsoft, that these notifications have even higher priority than the pop-up menu of the systray -- what'cha thinking Microsoft, do I wanna interact with the thing I just clicked on to open, or with the thing you pooped up over it under my cursor?!) when I dismiss them. I made a spreadsheet once and got about two dozen work-interruptions from Microsoft popups. Not to mention the absurd aggressiveness of Microsoft Teams notifications. I avoid the app when I'm not actively participating in a call (it randomly uses too much CPU and is also obviously tracking everything you do on the PC), so I usually have Teams quarantined in a Firefox tab. Other software manages to have hit-me-once notifications, but not Teams. Somewhere someone writes a message? Let's put multiple notifications on the screen and start bleeping away. What, you didn't look at the message? Let's send a reminder email! Modern Microsoft software would make Kafka cringe, for we are morons allowing this.

mhh__ 6y ago

Really? Ubuntu is pretty much rock solid, and if it does crash it doesn't just say I broke it, fuck you like windows. Windows makes me restart just to update .Net for Christ's sake.

mrgordon 6y ago
As much as I hate Windows, I’ve had some really terrible experiences with Ubuntu. One of the system upgrades broke startup of the OS and it was a major nightmare. Not saying Windows should be the alternative, but Linux is definitely not ready for most of my family to use it
- sergeykish 6y ago
  > but Linux is definitely not ready for most of my family to use it Somehow you've got decision about Linux from Ubuntu. There are not as much changes on rolling release though I had once similar problem on Arch Linux in a decade. I've heard it is impossible on Nix (easy rollback).
  - mrgordon 6y ago
    Well it’s the one often pointed to as “user friendly” even though it’s not my favorite. I would never choose it over say Debian but I also wouldn’t recommend Debian to my family
    - sergeykish 6y ago
      Ubuntu is a product of a private company (Canonical Ltd), I expect them to have marketing department [1]. There are 443 Canonical employees [2] and 13400 Red Hat employees [3]. I've heard "Red Hat" a lot in presentations of core stack - X, Cairo, Pango. Linux kernel contribution by company — Red Hat 8%, no Canonical [4]. Ubuntu made upstart, mir, unity, now snap. Red Hat made systemd and flatpak. Ubuntu experiments with users more than Arch Linux does. It is among the first on pulseaudio, systemd, wayland. Some reverted, some lived through. It is not stable. So why is Ubuntu user friendly? [1] https://canonical.com/careers/marketing https://canonical.com/careers/marketing [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_(company) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat [4] https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/2016/08/the-top-10-developers-and-companies-contributing-to-the-linux-kernel-in-2015-2016/ https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/2016/08/the-top-10-deve...

29athrowaway 6y ago

Citation needed.

29athrowaway 6y ago

And the target of most malware. So you require to run an antivirus that will cripple your computer. And most of the time it is not your decision to do it, it's company policy.

ivalm 6y ago
This is just not true for at least a few years now. Most people I know who do have a win10 box as well as my own experience neither run additional antivirus software nor have any malware related issues. This includes a bunch of elderly family friends for whom I am “tech support” as their are not computer sophisticated.
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  There are many companies where a person clicks on some phishing link and ends up infecting the entire company with a wormable ransomware. I have not heard of this ever happening with macOS or Linux.