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For reference here is footage from an apache gun killing a civilian reporter in Baghdad in 2007: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3ACollate

For reference here is footage from an apache gun killing a civilian reporter in Baghdad in 2007: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3ACollateralMurder.ogv https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AColla... So I'm fairly certain this is what most drone operators will see on the screen. This video is over 13 years old though, so current optics are probably much more advanced than what was deployed in iraq. Near-future drones can also probably use 5G networks to transmit higher resolution videos. I don't think anyone can hide from this, even if they don't have anything to hide. False positives seem extremely likely and if the domestic drones won't shoot, they still will very likely be reporting a lot of crimes and violations that didn't actually happen. The guy in the video who the operators claimed was carrying an AK-47 that was also an RPG, was actually a reporter carrying a camera and laptop.

squarefoot 6y ago
That video was taken from far distance because the drone had to operate unnoticed in enemy territory; pretty sure that they had much better optics and transmission capabilities even back then, but it had to be very far from action. The distance can be roughly measured, if the bullets speed is known, by counting the time between the shots audio (assuming it's properly synced) and when they're seen hitting the area. Today police drones could look at your backyard from a few dozen meters, and the same qualified immunity that let them execute people in the streets would prevent you to do anything against them; those drones wouldn't even need to hide themselves. ps. Upvoted because I noticed you were downvoted, probably by a flesh drone programmed to quench any reference to Wikileaks and the Assange cause, without whom that video would never become public.
- bbarnett 6y ago
  One thing which bothers me is satellite imagery. In the 80s, 30+ years ago, license plates were discernible from orbit. I often wonder, what if you had two distinct lenses, each with separate transmit? EG, both operating at once. Or multiple lenses? Now you could do things, potentially, such as use a high-fidelity lens to tag individuals. EG, license plates. Facial recognition. That sort of thing. Once tagged, another lens, one which records the entire surface of the continental US, would track objects the size of vehicles, or even people. Determining who or what each was, would not be vital. Only high probability tracking, and those other lenses coming into play for closer viewing, to tag. Now you're just tracking dots as they move. And once someone is tagged (phone, or license plate), they don't need to be retagged. If not already being done, it won't be long until it is done. And once tagged, you'd never shake that tag easily. We're all familiar with facial recognition tech used by SV giants, and we know of many things, such as gait recognition used in China. Yet what amount of tagging, facial recognition could be done, when budget was of absolutely zero concern. If computing power was of zero concern. All you need at the images from the satellite. Ground based computing power can do the rest. What if you had trillions in computing power to throw at this? Well. Regardless. If it isn't a problem now, it will be a problem eventually.
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    In one of the local traditions, the voters in the state all assemble in a town square to vote in person. (this year they exceptionally used ballots) https://www.ai.ch/politik/landsgemeinde https://www.ai.ch/politik/landsgemeinde In the old days, every voter was given a special sword, and admission to the gathering was conditioned upon possession of the sword (my former landlord still has his, it might still be a requirement). Would it be possible to develop some sort of equivalent, but as an antenna rather than a sword, reflecting on wavelengths illuminatable from the ground and observable from the air, that would allow popular votes to be taken via spy imagery? Presumably confirmation would involve multiple independent drone captures...
  - asdff 6y ago
    Do we even have capabilities to prevent another nation from just doing this on American citizens? They are probably doing everything you've described right now in China on people in China, but I wonder how long it will be until the Chinese point there cameras at Americans as well, if they haven't already.
    - 082349872349872 6y ago
      > if they haven't already Gary Powers was shot down in 1960.
  - ohazi 6y ago
    > In the 80s, 30+ years ago, license plates were discernible from orbit. This is absolutely false.
    - bbarnett 6y ago
      https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/12/top-secret-your-briefing-on-the-cias-cold-war-spy-satellite-big-bird/250629/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/12/top-s... It was also known by the likes of William Safire that our satellites could "read the license plates on the cars of Kremlin officials." -- If untrue, please provide a counter source to many of the like statements as cited above. (You may be right, but it seems that many believe you are wrong)
- NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
  >That video was taken from far distance because the drone had to operate unnoticed in enemy territory That video is not taken from a drone at all. It's from an AH-64 Apache, a manned attack helicopter with a flight crew of two.
asdff 6y ago
That was such a disturbing video. These men controlling these weapons are just entirely dehumanized. After they mow down the journalists, an unarmed van appears to try and load up the wounded and take them to safety. Then they beg for clearance from command to blow up the van "Come on, let us shoot!" a direct quote; they literally beg to kill them. Then they get their clearance and just blow it all apart. War is truly the worst thing there is.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  Compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button,_Button_(The_Twilight_Zone) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button,_Button_(The_Twilight_Z... From https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24786278 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24786278 on "authoritarian followers": > "Authoritarian Aggression. When I say authoritarian followers are aggressive I don’t mean they stride into bars and start fights. First of all, high RWAs go to church enormously more often than they go to bars. Secondly, they usually avoid anything approaching a fair fight. Instead they aggress when they believe right and might are on their side. “Right” for them means, more than anything else, that their hostility is (in their minds) endorsed by established authority, or supports such authority. “Might” means they have a huge physical advantage over their target, in weaponry say, or in numbers, as in a lynch mob." on a lighter note: > "Believe it or not, researchers are not allowed to organize murderous mobs to study hostility. So we have to study authoritarian aggression in subtler ways."
- sheepdestroyer 6y ago
  There were two children inside the van. There needs to be harsh accountability for these professional murderous psychopaths.
  - doctorfoo 6y ago
    Instead, those responsible for revealing it have spent considerable time, and still are, in jail.
    - hk__2 6y ago
dylan604 6y ago
This doesn't look like drone footage to me. From the flight pattern (left hand circle), this looks more like an AC-130 gun ship. Drones carry rockets/missiles, and this is clearly a large caliber machine gun being used.
- missedthecue 6y ago
  It's an Apache helicopter
  - dylan604 6y ago
    That was something I thought as well, but I doubt Apaches fly that kind of pattern though. They wouldn't let a target get lost behind a wall while making lazy circles. Also, the sound of an Apache gun sounds like the sky is ripping open. Not 100% on anything other than it's not a drone.
brokenmachine 6y ago
I thought that footage was taken from the Apache itself? From memory there were two helicopters?

squarefoot 6y ago

That video was taken from far distance because the drone had to operate unnoticed in enemy territory; pretty sure that they had much better optics and transmission capabilities even back then, but it had to be very far from action. The distance can be roughly measured, if the bullets speed is known, by counting the time between the shots audio (assuming it's properly synced) and when they're seen hitting the area. Today police drones could look at your backyard from a few dozen meters, and the same qualified immunity that let them execute people in the streets would prevent you to do anything against them; those drones wouldn't even need to hide themselves. ps. Upvoted because I noticed you were downvoted, probably by a flesh drone programmed to quench any reference to Wikileaks and the Assange cause, without whom that video would never become public.

bbarnett 6y ago
One thing which bothers me is satellite imagery. In the 80s, 30+ years ago, license plates were discernible from orbit. I often wonder, what if you had two distinct lenses, each with separate transmit? EG, both operating at once. Or multiple lenses? Now you could do things, potentially, such as use a high-fidelity lens to tag individuals. EG, license plates. Facial recognition. That sort of thing. Once tagged, another lens, one which records the entire surface of the continental US, would track objects the size of vehicles, or even people. Determining who or what each was, would not be vital. Only high probability tracking, and those other lenses coming into play for closer viewing, to tag. Now you're just tracking dots as they move. And once someone is tagged (phone, or license plate), they don't need to be retagged. If not already being done, it won't be long until it is done. And once tagged, you'd never shake that tag easily. We're all familiar with facial recognition tech used by SV giants, and we know of many things, such as gait recognition used in China. Yet what amount of tagging, facial recognition could be done, when budget was of absolutely zero concern. If computing power was of zero concern. All you need at the images from the satellite. Ground based computing power can do the rest. What if you had trillions in computing power to throw at this? Well. Regardless. If it isn't a problem now, it will be a problem eventually.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  In one of the local traditions, the voters in the state all assemble in a town square to vote in person. (this year they exceptionally used ballots) https://www.ai.ch/politik/landsgemeinde https://www.ai.ch/politik/landsgemeinde In the old days, every voter was given a special sword, and admission to the gathering was conditioned upon possession of the sword (my former landlord still has his, it might still be a requirement). Would it be possible to develop some sort of equivalent, but as an antenna rather than a sword, reflecting on wavelengths illuminatable from the ground and observable from the air, that would allow popular votes to be taken via spy imagery? Presumably confirmation would involve multiple independent drone captures...
- asdff 6y ago
  Do we even have capabilities to prevent another nation from just doing this on American citizens? They are probably doing everything you've described right now in China on people in China, but I wonder how long it will be until the Chinese point there cameras at Americans as well, if they haven't already.
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    > if they haven't already Gary Powers was shot down in 1960.
- ohazi 6y ago
  > In the 80s, 30+ years ago, license plates were discernible from orbit. This is absolutely false.
  - bbarnett 6y ago
    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/12/top-secret-your-briefing-on-the-cias-cold-war-spy-satellite-big-bird/250629/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/12/top-s... It was also known by the likes of William Safire that our satellites could "read the license plates on the cars of Kremlin officials." -- If untrue, please provide a counter source to many of the like statements as cited above. (You may be right, but it seems that many believe you are wrong)
NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
>That video was taken from far distance because the drone had to operate unnoticed in enemy territory That video is not taken from a drone at all. It's from an AH-64 Apache, a manned attack helicopter with a flight crew of two.

asdff 6y ago

That was such a disturbing video. These men controlling these weapons are just entirely dehumanized. After they mow down the journalists, an unarmed van appears to try and load up the wounded and take them to safety. Then they beg for clearance from command to blow up the van "Come on, let us shoot!" a direct quote; they literally beg to kill them. Then they get their clearance and just blow it all apart. War is truly the worst thing there is.

082349872349872 6y ago
Compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button,_Button_(The_Twilight_Zone) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button,_Button_(The_Twilight_Z... From https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24786278 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24786278 on "authoritarian followers": > "Authoritarian Aggression. When I say authoritarian followers are aggressive I don’t mean they stride into bars and start fights. First of all, high RWAs go to church enormously more often than they go to bars. Secondly, they usually avoid anything approaching a fair fight. Instead they aggress when they believe right and might are on their side. “Right” for them means, more than anything else, that their hostility is (in their minds) endorsed by established authority, or supports such authority. “Might” means they have a huge physical advantage over their target, in weaponry say, or in numbers, as in a lynch mob." on a lighter note: > "Believe it or not, researchers are not allowed to organize murderous mobs to study hostility. So we have to study authoritarian aggression in subtler ways."
sheepdestroyer 6y ago
There were two children inside the van. There needs to be harsh accountability for these professional murderous psychopaths.
- doctorfoo 6y ago
  Instead, those responsible for revealing it have spent considerable time, and still are, in jail.
  - hk__2 6y ago

dylan604 6y ago

This doesn't look like drone footage to me. From the flight pattern (left hand circle), this looks more like an AC-130 gun ship. Drones carry rockets/missiles, and this is clearly a large caliber machine gun being used.

missedthecue 6y ago
It's an Apache helicopter
- dylan604 6y ago
  That was something I thought as well, but I doubt Apaches fly that kind of pattern though. They wouldn't let a target get lost behind a wall while making lazy circles. Also, the sound of an Apache gun sounds like the sky is ripping open. Not 100% on anything other than it's not a drone.

brokenmachine 6y ago

I thought that footage was taken from the Apache itself? From memory there were two helicopters?