4 ms·

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. We've been watching this happen for a few years now, and some of us are actively paving the road.

2bitencryption 6y ago
Recently I've seen people invoking the term "slippery slope fallacy" to describe this phenomenon. It's really frustrating to see this. I think there was some stupid "list of fallacies" infographic popular on Reddit a few months back that spawned this notion that there's no such thing as a "slippery slope" and calling anything a "slippery slope" means you're wrong and your argument can be tossed out. But... that's exactly how rights are eroded. It is, in the purest sense, a slippery slope of gradual change. I'm not sure how I feel about this specific instance (the Twitter/Biden thing) but I think the "slippery slope fallacy" fallacy is relevant here.
- nexuist 6y ago
  It is stupid especially considering that the people who are for this sort of censorship (or moderation, if you will) usually also agree with the notion that we are heading towards fascism. Which one is it then? Is it possible to take on step forward and stay put, or does every step forward indicate more steps in the future? You can't have it both ways, it's either a fallacy or not. History tells us that it is not a fallacy, and that we should use all the warning signs we can find before it's too late to go back.
- hnhg 6y ago
  Indeed, when done on purpose, it has another name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing
- colordrops 6y ago
  "slippery slope" is not a fallacy. It happens all the time. It happened with privacy. Do you not remember when a printer driver phoning home with usage stats was a national news story? Now you are a a bad company if you don't do this.
Fauntleroy 6y ago
The "unchecked misinformation" alternative hasn't really been working out so well either, for what it's worth.
- mjfl 6y ago
  I don't think it's working nearly as badly as you think.
  - Fauntleroy 6y ago
    If only the dead in the US could talk.
  - ohashi 6y ago
    President Trump. I think it's gone pretty fucking badly.
    - mjfl 6y ago
      oh right because of the russian bots on twitter.
      - wallacoloo 6y ago
        Please read this site's guidelines before participating in discussions here. Particularly the first and third point under "In Comments". Thanks. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- jpttsn 6y ago
  Hits and misses. It worked great for Galileo.
  - andrewprock 6y ago
    Could you clarify what you mean by "it worked great" here?
adventured 6y ago
It's not good intentions. The tech giants are attempting to throw an election and they don't care who knows at this point. For the 2012 election Facebook execs bragged about illegally assisting the Obama campaign by giving them practically the entire FB social graph, for free. That violates federal campaign finance laws. Nothing was done about it and you'll never get anyone on HN to go near talking about that fraud, which was entirely out in the open. The media ran every possible baseless story they could about Trump the past four years, often with zero supporting evidence to the story in question. Every time they turned out to be fake stories, the media conveniently ignored it, refused to run retractions and moved on to the next fraudulent story. Twitter allowed max distribution in every single instance. Now a story blows up about Biden, and they go in to hyper overdrive to stop it, colluding with Facebook. You've got people inside of these companies directly working for the DNC and using company resources to violate federal campaign finance laws. There is a growing list of people in big tech that need to go to prison for election interference.
- Fauntleroy 6y ago
  How is it you're able to see this collusion with only one side, and not the other? I'm genuinely curious.
- amanaplanacanal 6y ago
  If there were illegalities, you would think the Trump justice department would have gone after them. Do you have theories as to why that didn’t happen?
  - AlexandrB 6y ago
    It takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to pretend that one side of the political spectrum is being oppressed even as they control 2/3 branches of government.
    - giardini 6y ago
      Obviously you've never worked in a bureaucracy.
untog 6y ago
It cuts both ways, though. The road to hell (totally censored internet) is paved with good intentions (trying to clamp down on misinformation). But the road to hell (a society full of dangerously misinformed citizens) is also paved with good intentions (trying to keep the internet free of censorship). I guess my point is that none of this is actually easy to navigate. Anyone saying "censor the story, it's no big deal" is missing the bigger picture. But IMO, so is anyone saying "disinformation is not a problem, it shouldn't be tackled".
- wobbegongz 6y ago
  All roads lead to hell?
amarka 6y ago
The road to hell is littered with "free ice cream this way =>" signs.

2bitencryption 6y ago

Recently I've seen people invoking the term "slippery slope fallacy" to describe this phenomenon. It's really frustrating to see this. I think there was some stupid "list of fallacies" infographic popular on Reddit a few months back that spawned this notion that there's no such thing as a "slippery slope" and calling anything a "slippery slope" means you're wrong and your argument can be tossed out. But... that's exactly how rights are eroded. It is, in the purest sense, a slippery slope of gradual change. I'm not sure how I feel about this specific instance (the Twitter/Biden thing) but I think the "slippery slope fallacy" fallacy is relevant here.

nexuist 6y ago
It is stupid especially considering that the people who are for this sort of censorship (or moderation, if you will) usually also agree with the notion that we are heading towards fascism. Which one is it then? Is it possible to take on step forward and stay put, or does every step forward indicate more steps in the future? You can't have it both ways, it's either a fallacy or not. History tells us that it is not a fallacy, and that we should use all the warning signs we can find before it's too late to go back.
hnhg 6y ago
Indeed, when done on purpose, it has another name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing
colordrops 6y ago
"slippery slope" is not a fallacy. It happens all the time. It happened with privacy. Do you not remember when a printer driver phoning home with usage stats was a national news story? Now you are a a bad company if you don't do this.

Fauntleroy 6y ago

The "unchecked misinformation" alternative hasn't really been working out so well either, for what it's worth.

mjfl 6y ago
I don't think it's working nearly as badly as you think.
- Fauntleroy 6y ago
  If only the dead in the US could talk.
- ohashi 6y ago
  President Trump. I think it's gone pretty fucking badly.
  - mjfl 6y ago
    oh right because of the russian bots on twitter.
    - wallacoloo 6y ago
      Please read this site's guidelines before participating in discussions here. Particularly the first and third point under "In Comments". Thanks. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
jpttsn 6y ago
Hits and misses. It worked great for Galileo.
- andrewprock 6y ago
  Could you clarify what you mean by "it worked great" here?

adventured 6y ago

It's not good intentions. The tech giants are attempting to throw an election and they don't care who knows at this point. For the 2012 election Facebook execs bragged about illegally assisting the Obama campaign by giving them practically the entire FB social graph, for free. That violates federal campaign finance laws. Nothing was done about it and you'll never get anyone on HN to go near talking about that fraud, which was entirely out in the open. The media ran every possible baseless story they could about Trump the past four years, often with zero supporting evidence to the story in question. Every time they turned out to be fake stories, the media conveniently ignored it, refused to run retractions and moved on to the next fraudulent story. Twitter allowed max distribution in every single instance. Now a story blows up about Biden, and they go in to hyper overdrive to stop it, colluding with Facebook. You've got people inside of these companies directly working for the DNC and using company resources to violate federal campaign finance laws. There is a growing list of people in big tech that need to go to prison for election interference.

Fauntleroy 6y ago
How is it you're able to see this collusion with only one side, and not the other? I'm genuinely curious.
amanaplanacanal 6y ago
If there were illegalities, you would think the Trump justice department would have gone after them. Do you have theories as to why that didn’t happen?
- AlexandrB 6y ago
  It takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to pretend that one side of the political spectrum is being oppressed even as they control 2/3 branches of government.
  - giardini 6y ago
    Obviously you've never worked in a bureaucracy.

untog 6y ago

It cuts both ways, though. The road to hell (totally censored internet) is paved with good intentions (trying to clamp down on misinformation). But the road to hell (a society full of dangerously misinformed citizens) is also paved with good intentions (trying to keep the internet free of censorship). I guess my point is that none of this is actually easy to navigate. Anyone saying "censor the story, it's no big deal" is missing the bigger picture. But IMO, so is anyone saying "disinformation is not a problem, it shouldn't be tackled".

wobbegongz 6y ago
All roads lead to hell?

amarka 6y ago

The road to hell is littered with "free ice cream this way =>" signs.